Whew. Had to work for that one.
Great match snow. Your midfield took a shat on ours all game.
Great match snow. Your midfield took a shat on ours all game.
The Modern Draft: R1 - Skizzo vs Snow
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Good game @Snow
All the way Duncan
. Was really saddening to watch his mom mostly.
Excellent watch with plenty of interesting anecdotes (esp the McGuiness ones) and I'd recommend it for anyone regardless of their club orientation. Had a bit of time and just finished watching Charlton, Best and Law's documentaries the past week and really enjoyed them as well.
Didn't want to derail the thread earlier.
All the way Duncan
. Was really saddening to watch his mom mostly.Excellent watch with plenty of interesting anecdotes (esp the McGuiness ones) and I'd recommend it for anyone regardless of their club orientation. Had a bit of time and just finished watching Charlton, Best and Law's documentaries the past week and really enjoyed them as well.
Typical. Second time I go to bed late and the wake up after the poll is finished to find many hours of discussion. Disappointed to lose on a substitution vote as I don't feel it changed the game at all. Also disappointed that a defensive line was by bane as there honestly isn't a big difference between defenses. Defenses are made by the whole team, not the back 4. Being solid all around and dominating possession should win you the game in most cases.
Good game. Congrats.
Good game. Congrats.
Awful feeling
Brilliant team you assembled together, hard luck.
Re: defence. Your defence isn't that behind individually but he has a proven trio at the back of one of the best defensive teams of modern times. It has to count for something.
Yup and the fourth link is Evra who is the best defender on the pitch individually so it is quite the upgrade to that defense too. Very even game though and both teams could have won this.Awful feeling
Brilliant team you assembled together, hard luck.
Re: defence. Your defence isn't that behind individually but he has a proven trio at the back of one of the best defensive teams of modern times. It has to count for something.
WTF? Evra better than Godin?
Evra? His defending never impressed me. Azpilicueta is a better defender than him. Evra was often skinned and out of position.
Apologies, not been on here for a few days. Does not matter too much as the poll has finished but under Mancini it was usually Silva on the right and Nasri on the left, as Joga has already pointed out. Under Pellegrini Silva plays on the left a lot more. He is perfectly adept on either side and the most important thing is who the full-back is on his side, as he loves to have an attack minded full back like Kolarov or Zabaleta as opposed to Clichy or Sagna.
Not in his prime.
Come on mate, Godin and Miranda are significantly better than Badstuber-Garay both as individuals and as a pair. Whilst you could make a case for Azpilicueta being better than Evra from a purely defensive point of view, Evra is the all around better FB and is a class above Cesar. I'd take Juanfran over Srna as well. There was a significant difference between both defenses imo.
You are also right in that the whole team needs to contribute to the team's solidity and fortitude which is exactly what my attackers Lewa, Sterling, Müller and both my industrious and physical CMs provide. Both our FBs are attacking but solid at the back whilst our CBs are top notch. It's a really industrious and gritty team overall with the right blend of flair and quality as well.
I don't think there's much between them as individuals, both were top notch and the best in their position at their peak (Evra alongside Cole and Godin has been undoubtedly peerless for quite some time now but tends to be criminally underappreciated),
I can see what you are getting at tbf and Evra most certainly wasn't unbeatable. However, given the context he's the the best LB in this draft after Cole and there are few, if any, wingers in this draft who'd have the beating of him repeatedly. At his peak he was the best LB in the world and part of the rock solid defensive United back line. He was an extremely gritty, resolute and pacy full back who was pretty complete whilst being reliable defensively (unless you were a certain Aaron Lemon
) and also a proper outlet on the wings. I'd rather have him in our team than Cole tbh, for his completeness and wing presence which our team requires more.That's not the point. One CB pairing being good as nothing to do with the other CB pairing. It's clear that they are better but games are rarely won because a CB pairing was better than the other. Teams always get their chances to score. With more possession, you have statistically more chances.Come on mate, Godin and Miranda are significantly better than Badstuber-Garay both as individuals and as a pair. Whilst you could make a case for Azpilicueta being better than Evra from a purely defensive point of view, Evra is the all around better FB and is a class above Cesar. I'd take Juanfran over Srna as well. There was a significant difference between both defenses imo.
You are also right in that the whole team needs to contribute to the team's solidity and fortitude which is exactly what my attackers Lewa, Sterling, Müller and both my industrious and physical CMs provide. Both our FBs are attacking but solid at the back whilst our CBs are top notch. It's a really industrious and gritty team overall with the right blend of flair and quality as well.
I don't think there's much between them as individuals, both were top notch and the best in their position at their peak (Evra alongside Cole and Godin has been undoubtedly peerless for quite some time now but tends to be criminally underappreciated),
I can see what you are getting at tbf and Evra most certainly wasn't unbeatable. However, given the context he's the the best LB in this draft after Cole and there are few, if any, wingers in this draft who'd have the beating of him repeatedly. At his peak he was the best LB in the world and part of the rock solid defensive United back line. He was an extremely gritty, resolute and pacy full back who was pretty complete whilst being reliable defensively (unless you were a certain Aaron Lemon
Evra is not better defensively that Azpilicueta. He's better all around but Evra was defending on his own whilst Cesar was 1v1 and not going much forward. I had a great flank to deal with Evra. Both attacking and defending. Sterling is useless defending and he's a very poor finisher. Also has a debatable peak.
Juanfran is a converted winger. He's really not all that. Srna has over 100 European matches and over 100 caps and he's only 32. He's an excellent player with a very consistent career and a broad peak.
Well yeah, if you are saying "the best within his role and given the alternatives in this draft" then Evra takes some beating, but he sure as hell isn't a better defender than Godín. Badly worded remark, I suppose.
Yes but that isn't what I stated. I was debating your claim about both defenses not having a big difference between them, when there actually was quite a significant difference.
That isn't entirely true. Whilst you can't expect a stoic defensive performance ala Koke or Cuadrado from Sterling in the wide position, he's most certainly capable of putting in a shift and isn't an 'useless' passenger off the ball. @Barney could shed more light on this matter.
Granted he isn't the most prolific attacker but his composure in front of the goal has improved tremendously since the first half of last season when he was guilty of missing gilt edged chances rather frequently (against City in the 2-1 loss for eg).
Anyway it isn't his finishing he's in the team for but rather his pace, trickery and flair. The most impressive attribute he has imo, is his maturity and his intelligent play which belies his tender years. We've seen plenty of typical raw English pacy youngsters breaking through, all of whom were brimming with pace and directness but sorely lacked that intelligent play, technique, keen eye for a pass, link up play, versatility etc. These are the qualities which sets Sterling apart from the rest and what makes him a truly well rounded and an excellent prospect.
Certainly a more reliable peak than Thiago and he has a full season under his belt as a key player for a side which unexpectedly finished runners up and were on the verge of being champions (thanks Gerrard
). As a post 90 player you'd naturally have to affort a fair degree of leniency when judging their peaks.Yet he shat on Hazard, is good enough for Simeone and pulls his weight in a water tight defense for Atleti? I don't quite see how his conversion from winger automatically means he's poor defensively. On the contrary, he's actually excellent defensively whilst being a proper threat on the wings. I'd say Juanfran is better but could understand it if someone picks Srna though. However, Juanfran's certainly the better defensive FB whilst Srna is the better offensive threat.
Tbh you could even extend the parameters at their peak. Evra was the best LB in the world (alongside Cole) in his peak.
Godin has been IMHO, the best defender in the world for a few years now, marshalling a water tight Atleti defense and being excellent for Uruguay whilst excelling in major competitions (WC, CL). I made a detailed post about him in the main thread and was actually thinking about approaching you for some info on his Copa America performances, where he was brilliant for Uruguay by all accounts as well. His display against Barça in the title decider last season at Camp Nou
is one for the ages though. Absolutely immense.
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It's definitely something he improved on last season. He always puts a shift in when he's on the wing. He's not bad defensively for a winger and has a ridiculous level of intelligence and awareness. During the run in last year he was our best player along with Gerrard. I think he's better centrally or on the right though.
Didn't see this thread yesterday. Probably would have voted Snow.
Glad you missed it then
but why? If you don't mind me askingSterling was European Golden Boy...and statistically was better than Ronaldo at the same age as far as end product goes. And as far as the peak for a post 90 player? Well it's probably not gonna be the same as the rest of the draft pool.
And as far as juanfran being a converted winger...wasn't that part of your whole selling point for Cuadrado?
And you still never answered my questions about how hazard and Adriano would be productive
Was following the draft early, his team was always my favourite. Love his midfield and its balance. Big fan of majority of his team. Your team must be the strongest left in the competition though. Back four and front four both great.Glad you missed it then
Surprised to read this post-match to be honest. I thought Evra balanced his attacking and defensive duties as well or better than anyone in this draft. His only weakness for me was his final ball. He was incredible at defending excellently whilst also dominating his entire wing. That's why Aaron Lennon giving him hell twice in quick succession actually lingers in my memory - it was almost laughable that such a mediocre winger got the best of him because it virtually never happened once let alone twice.
Just when we thought we had enough of the Müller-Silva positions hulaboo. Damn you Barney
.Tbf all three are extremely versatile players who can play any position along the line behind the striker. Naturally, they'll have a slight preference for a certain position but their versatility, intelligence and their proven performances along those positions make it a bit of a moot point tbh. Or else there is no point to their versatility and the tactical flexibility they offer if they have to be judiciously played in a single position only.
This. He was excellent defensively and agreed on the final ball comment too. His crossing from deeper positions were a bit iffy at times but his deliveries and cut backs from the channels on the overlap were generally accurate though.
I don't agree with that, sure he for some reason developed a poor positioning/concentration at his latter years which is unusual as defenders normally improve in those areas as they age. But in his peak Evra was unbelievable and between 2006-2010 I would have him above Ashley Cole too who of course probably had his peak for Arsenal rather.
Yup that nails it. Evra was great going forward and defending but his crossing was terrible and very wasteful. His link-up play, overlapping runs and so forth was very good too - not among the best full backs in that regard but definitely good even when comparing top full backs.
His crossing was almost laughable though, he had so many great opportunities through-out matches but he never managed to develop it into a reliable and dangerous asset. If it wasn't for that he'd have been considered even greater as his ability to get himself in to good positions was excellent. He was just such an important part to that left side.
Tbf it's against Bremen, the team with the worst defence in their league.
Good goals, nonetheless.
Good goals, nonetheless.
I could bet with you that this kind of goals work against teams like Barcelona, too...
... or Manchester City...
Then go and win that damn thing, thenI could bet with you that this kind of goals work against teams like Barcelona, too...
... or Manchester City...
Don't blame the defence. It's just Muller taking the piss yet again. It's unfortunate that he isn't flashy but rather the opposite: he makes football look incredibly simple, that's what happens when players know how to create and exploit space.
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You're preaching to Muller's fan here
. His first goal isn't too shabby either.Bremen does have the worst defence. Playing a high line against Bayern's front-line is suicide.
