The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[WensleyMU]

I don't think anyone expected day one. We're now in the 3rd season. But it seems like we've not improved as a unit. The players that were there at the start of Mourinho's tenure here haven't exactly improved much. Compare this to Klopp, Guardiola or Pochetino - they seem to be improving players or at least improving their confidence.

How long should we wait before we start asking questions then?

The board obviously wanted him to get results in a season or two. He's in season 3. Would you say we're any closer to a title or are we showing any signs of improvement since 2016/17?

Only an incompetent person would hire Maureen for building a long-term side.

2015/16, 5th, 66 points, 10 defeats FA Cup winners. Struggling to get more than 3 or 4 attempts on goal, needless possession.

2016/17 6th, 69 points, 5 defeats. League Cup and Europa League winners, Champions League qualification. A much improved season despite a drop in final position. We were difficult to beat but struggled in front of goal. Only one side lost less games than us but 15 draws cost us an enormous amount of points. I believe we put together our longest unbeaten run ever in this season.

2017/18 2nd 81 points, FA Cup finalists. Title race was over due to a poor December and a rampant City, but United held 2nd throughout the season. Beat every single top 6 side. Around 20% increase on goals scored over the previous season, 30% up on van Gaals last season.

Both these seasons we slowed down in the league towards the end to concentrate on cups, so of there was a need to do so, we could have taken more points.

To say we haven't improved is clearly wrong, we have done and by quite a lot. We've improved every area of the side, improved our points tally, our goals scored, how many games we have won. We've lost just 2 games more in 76 PL games as we did in the 38 before Mourinho took over.

The poor start to this season has done a number on our fans. It's gone from a poor first 7 games, to a poor 2018, when in reality, only Spurs and City took more points from January to May last season.

Personally I don't think the season is over, but we have little room for error now. The title is probably out of reach but I think we all knew that once it was clear we weren't getting players in but a top 4 finish, a 1/4 final of the CL or better and an FA Cup win is still possible. We have 3 fronts to compete on still and 6 months of football ahead. Mourinho and the players have something to prove and that can be more than enough to succeed.

@fellaini's barber Pep made many mistakes in the market at City but simply replaced the because he could. Jose would have had that luxury to so those players deemed to have failed at United would simply have been replaced at City. That said he would likely have signed different players due to what was available to him.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We're talking competition btw. Nobody is saying they almost won the match.

They go hand in hand, so no, they didn't almost win it. They made the final.

Sometimes making a final is simply easier and a side was never likely to win the thing.

Best two sides in Liverpool's group, Spartak Moskva / Seville.
Best two sides in Madrid's group, Dortmund / Tottenham

Knockout:
Liverpool - Porto, City, Roma, FINAL
Madrid - PSG, Juventus, Munich, FINAL

Madrid were huge favourites and rightly so after an infinitely harder route to the final, the final and result was never in doubt. Liverpool were as close to winning it as Munich or Roma.

 

[predator]

Imo I think we should part ways asap, and amicably at that. Repect and admiration towards him but it's not working. Who we get next I don't know. All I know, or believe, is that mourinho isn't our guy. I'd personally risk giving the role to almost anyone.

I'm relaxed though. Surely something has to give. I won't downright abuse our manager though, because it doesn't feel right.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Imo I think we should part ways asap, and amicably at that. Repect and admiration towards him but it's not working. Who we get next I don't know. All I know, or believe, is that mourinho isn't our guy. I'd personally risk giving the role to almost anyone.

Give it to Moyes.

 

[99withaflake]

316 pages

 

[Crustanoid]

I think you hire Mourinho to be successful quickly, when that doesn’t work you move on. Given the work that is needed on and off the field I don’t see Mourinho being the right fit or being successful.

Which is why we’re the laughing stock of football right now. We’re actually keeping him on even though he’s pissed half a billion up the wall, plays terrible football and loses all the time.

 

[the chameleon]

2015/16, 5th, 66 points, 10 defeats FA Cup winners. Struggling to get more than 3 or 4 attempts on goal, needless possession.

2016/17 6th, 69 points, 5 defeats. League Cup and Europa League winners, Champions League qualification. A much improved season despite a drop in final position. We were difficult to beat but struggled in front of goal. Only one side lost less games than us but 15 draws cost us an enormous amount of points. I believe we put together our longest unbeaten run ever in this season.

2017/18 2nd 81 points, FA Cup finalists. Title race was over due to a poor December and a rampant City, but United held 2nd throughout the season. Beat every single top 6 side. Around 20% increase on goals scored over the previous season, 30% up on van Gaals last season.

Both these seasons we slowed down in the league towards the end to concentrate on cups, so of there was a need to do so, we could have taken more points.

To say we haven't improved is clearly wrong, we have done and by quite a lot. We've improved every area of the side, improved our points tally, our goals scored, how many games we have won. We've lost just 2 games more in 76 PL games as we did in the 38 before Mourinho took over.

The poor start to this season has done a number on our fans. It's gone from a poor first 7 games, to a poor 2018, when in reality, only Spurs and City took more points from January to May last season.

Personally I don't think the season is over, but we have little room for error now. The title is probably out of reach but I think we all knew that once it was clear we weren't getting players in but a top 4 finish, a 1/4 final of the CL or better and an FA Cup win is still possible. We have 3 fronts to compete on still and 6 months of football ahead. Mourinho and the players have something to prove and that can be more than enough to succeed.

@fellaini's barber Pep made many mistakes in the market at City but simply replaced the because he could. Jose would have had that luxury to so those players deemed to have failed at United would simply have been replaced at City. That said he would likely have signed different players due to what was available to him.

Sometimes, stats don't show the full picture. Mourinho was hired to win a title within 3 years. That's what he specialises in. Unfortunately, this hasn't worked. You can make all the excuses.

A top 4 finish, 1/4 final and an FA Cup win isn't acceptable. Are we the new Arsenal now? We'll see how it goes.

We're doomed if fans start accepting mediocrity. I love this place, because we can make a point here, and maybe it gets picked up by journalists, which puts pressure on people like Woodward.

Also, it's not Mourinho's fault that he's failed or he's not the right manager. That would all be Ed.

 

[fellaini's barber]

2015/16, 5th, 66 points, 10 defeats FA Cup winners. Struggling to get more than 3 or 4 attempts on goal, needless possession.

2016/17 6th, 69 points, 5 defeats. League Cup and Europa League winners, Champions League qualification. A much improved season despite a drop in final position. We were difficult to beat but struggled in front of goal. Only one side lost less games than us but 15 draws cost us an enormous amount of points. I believe we put together our longest unbeaten run ever in this season.

2017/18 2nd 81 points, FA Cup finalists. Title race was over due to a poor December and a rampant City, but United held 2nd throughout the season. Beat every single top 6 side. Around 20% increase on goals scored over the previous season, 30% up on van Gaals last season.

Both these seasons we slowed down in the league towards the end to concentrate on cups, so of there was a need to do so, we could have taken more points.

To say we haven't improved is clearly wrong, we have done and by quite a lot. We've improved every area of the side, improved our points tally, our goals scored, how many games we have won. We've lost just 2 games more in 76 PL games as we did in the 38 before Mourinho took over.

The poor start to this season has done a number on our fans. It's gone from a poor first 7 games, to a poor 2018, when in reality, only Spurs and City took more points from January to May last season.

Personally I don't think the season is over, but we have little room for error now. The title is probably out of reach but I think we all knew that once it was clear we weren't getting players in but a top 4 finish, a 1/4 final of the CL or better and an FA Cup win is still possible. We have 3 fronts to compete on still and 6 months of football ahead. Mourinho and the players have something to prove and that can be more than enough to succeed.

@fellaini's barber Pep made many mistakes in the market at City but simply replaced the because he could. Jose would have had that luxury to so those players deemed to have failed at United would simply have been replaced at City. That said he would likely have signed different players due to what was available to him.

No shit, you're the one who's pretty certain Jose would have gone there and got 100 points. And what's these Pep mistakes you guys keep going on and on about to make it look like Pep keeps buying duds and replacing them but the only absolute duds he's signed are Bravo and Nolito or am I missing something? So out of like 14 signings only 2 were failures, while your hero Jose has bough like 11 and only Pogba and Ibra out of them can be even be classified as slightly successful.

 

[predator]

Give it to Moyes.

Not sure about that tbh mate. I'd rather us do a Dennis Wise millwall and give it Fellaini player manager. Moyes is one for the future.

I want a man who will entice me to actually go to OT.

 

[the chameleon]

Mina and Willian are just examples from
number of players we were linked with, Mourinho’s attitude was wrong irrespective of signings. The players would have wanted to be ambitious and have a go, Mourinho didn’t once his power struggle failed.

No one has any idea what happened in regards to transfers Mourinho may well have vetoed alternatives, he is an all or nothing character after all and he wants instant results. I suspect as in most cases the blame has to be spread between Woodward and Mourinho to an extent.

I just think it makes absolutely no sense to believe that because we only spent 80m we were doomed to fail and Mourinho was powerless to stop it. He didn’t prepare the team properly, is now suffering the consequences and has only made a difficult job even harder.

Good post. I 100% agree.

Maureen is like a spoilt brat that wants all the shiny new toys. You get other people, who make use of the toys they already have instead sulking and damaging them. Those are the managers are what we need.

It still irks me that Woodward let Klopp slip through the net.

 

[Canagel]

2015/16, 5th, 66 points, 10 defeats FA Cup winners. Struggling to get more than 3 or 4 attempts on goal, needless possession.

2016/17 6th, 69 points, 5 defeats. League Cup and Europa League winners, Champions League qualification. A much improved season despite a drop in final position. We were difficult to beat but struggled in front of goal. Only one side lost less games than us but 15 draws cost us an enormous amount of points. I believe we put together our longest unbeaten run ever in this season.

2017/18 2nd 81 points, FA Cup finalists. Title race was over due to a poor December and a rampant City, but United held 2nd throughout the season. Beat every single top 6 side. Around 20% increase on goals scored over the previous season, 30% up on van Gaals last season.

Both these seasons we slowed down in the league towards the end to concentrate on cups, so of there was a need to do so, we could have taken more points.

To say we haven't improved is clearly wrong, we have done and by quite a lot. We've improved every area of the side, improved our points tally, our goals scored, how many games we have won. We've lost just 2 games more in 76 PL games as we did in the 38 before Mourinho took over.

The poor start to this season has done a number on our fans. It's gone from a poor first 7 games, to a poor 2018, when in reality, only Spurs and City took more points from January to May last season.

Personally I don't think the season is over, but we have little room for error now. The title is probably out of reach but I think we all knew that once it was clear we weren't getting players in but a top 4 finish, a 1/4 final of the CL or better and an FA Cup win is still possible. We have 3 fronts to compete on still and 6 months of football ahead. Mourinho and the players have something to prove and that can be more than enough to succeed.

Sometimes statistics can be very decieving. As a team we haven't improved much. We want to be seeing progression every season. The first year I liked but we weren't good to watch last season even if it was 2nd place. And it's continued through to this season. We can't be scraping results and expect to keep getting away with it. We grinded out too many games last season but it catches up with you unfortunately. You could count the number of top 90 minute performances we've had on one hand. from the start to the finish.

 

[el3mel]

Mina and Willian are just examples from
number of players we were linked with, Mourinho’s attitude was wrong irrespective of signings. The players would have wanted to be ambitious and have a go, Mourinho didn’t once his power struggle failed.

No one has any idea what happened in regards to transfers Mourinho may well have vetoed alternatives, he is an all or nothing character after all and he wants instant results. I suspect as in most cases the blame has to be spread between Woodward and Mourinho to an extent.

I just think it makes absolutely no sense to believe that because we only spent 80m we were doomed to fail and Mourinho was powerless to stop it. He didn’t prepare the team properly, is now suffering the consequences and has only made a difficult job even harder.

No manager is going to refuse good players offered to him in position he wanted to strengthen in summer. Pretty sure if Ed went to Mourinho and told him that he agreed on signing RW but Willian is too old and expensive and we should search for an alternative with good quality and younger age like Bailley, Mourinho wouldn't have refused. Signing better than no one at all at the end.

And what we got from the briefing was that Woodward vetoed the signing because he thought we'll be replacing our 5th best defender with another 5th best defender so doesn't look like he was suggesting alternatives that're possible to get. He voted Mourinho's list and that's it.

What happened in summer sent the wrong message to everyone in the squad. That's not absolving Mourinho of any blame, as I said earlier he's responsible for us being far away from top 4, but what happened in summer is fully on Ed and his poor management.

 

[An Irish Red]

Jose would be more capable of winning the CL with City, assuming the same run to the final, Jose doesn't get smashed to pieces by Liverpool. Jose has experience of taken an outside bet to CL glory, which is the basis of the claim.

We had a better team than Sevilla and got eliminated because of Mourinho's cowardice. He did the same in his latter years at Chelsea and he would do the exact same at City if he was there.

How you can possibly think that this version of Mourinho would do better than Guardiola is beyond me.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

So Mourinho purposefully did not train the team, or trained them the wrong way so that they would lose the matches and reach 10th place so as to teach Woodward a lesson?

i wouldnt put it past him, otherwise why play herrera as CB?

Maybe not as far as to lose outright but enough to put the results at risk.

 

[WensleyMU]

Sometimes, stats don't show the full picture. Mourinho was hired to win a title within 3 years. That's what he specialises in. Unfortunately, this hasn't worked. You can make all the excuses.

A top 4 finish, 1/4 final and an FA Cup win isn't acceptable. Are we the new Arsenal now? We'll see how it goes.

We're doomed if fans start accepting mediocrity. I love this place, because we can make a point here, and maybe it gets picked up by journalists, which puts pressure on people like Woodward.

Also, it's not Mourinho's fault that he's failed or he's not the right manager. That would all be Ed.

No shit, you're the one who's pretty certain Jose would have gone there and got 100 points. And what's these Pep mistakes you guys keep going on and on about to make it look like Pep keeps buying duds and replacing them but the only absolute duds he's signed are Bravo and Nolito or am I missing something? So out of like 14 signings only 2 were failures, while your hero Jose has bough like 11 and only Pogba and Ibra out of them can be even be classified as slightly successful.

Sometimes statistics can be very decieving. As a team we haven't improved much. We want to be seeing progression every season. The first year I liked but we weren't good to watch last season even if it was 2nd place. And it's continued through to this season. We can't be scraping results and expect to keep getting away with it. We grinded out too many games last season but it catches up with you unfortunately. You could count the number of top 90 minute performances we've had on one hand. from the start to the finish.

But it's not just improvement shown by stats. Can you remember the van Gaals days, the Moyes days? Performances are much better. I honestly don't see how anyone can think otherwise.

Our top level is better, our average performance level is better and our bottom level hasn't fallen as far as it did under Moyes or van Gaal. We create more chances, we score more goals, we win more games.

A good performance doesn't have to mean you dominate for 90 minutes. It's rarely happens for most clubs. You have to expect the opponent is likely to have spells in games where they are a threat. Think back to the glory days under Fergie, where we gained a reputation as comeback kings. We certainly weren't the better side for the whole 90 minutes many times but we were still the better side overall.

I enjoyed last season, because it felt like we were heading in the right direction. I don't mind grinding out results when previously we would have drawn or lost these types of matches. There's also the added bonus of how much it winds up our rivals when we do so.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

But it's not just improvement shown by stats. Can you remember the van Gaals days, the Moyes days? Performances are much better. I honestly don't see how anyone can think otherwise.

Our top level is better, our average performance level is better and our bottom level hasn't fallen as far as it did under Moyes or van Gaal. We create more chances, we score more goals, we win more games.

A good performance doesn't have to mean you dominate for 90 minutes. It's rarely happens for most clubs. You have to expect the opponent is likely to have spells in games where they are a threat. Think back to the glory days under Fergie, where we gained a reputation as comeback kings. We certainly weren't the better side for the whole 90 minutes many times but we were still the better side overall.

I enjoyed last season, because it felt like we were heading in the right direction. I don't mind grinding out results when previously we would have drawn or lost these types of matches. There's also the added bonus of how much it winds up our rivals when we do so.

United are better now because Jose is a better manager than LVG & Moyes. That is it & there is nothing else to it. We are better than we were 5 years ago - not because we have found some magical ability to suddenly be up with the big boys of football again - it's just because Jose is a slight better modern day manager that the likes of LVG & Moyes.

Whether a manager was better than the previous manager is not what we should rate them on - we need to rate the team and wonder if he has managed to get the best out of the players at his disposal. That is questionable. After 3 years we have no solid game plan. Players that he wants are questionable in the long term, the players he wants to replace & bad mouth are questionable, the players he want furthermore would not add a sudden gamelan to us - just only make us more efficient at the game plan we are already playing; which many of us already find questionable.


LVG in his 2nd season was better than Moyes - we sacked him. Likewise Jose is better than we were under LVG - that does not mean he gets free seat.

 

[Mainoldo]

We had a better team than Sevilla and got eliminated because of Mourinho's cowardice. He did the same in his latter years at Chelsea and he would do the exact same at City if he was there.

How you can possibly think that this version of Mourinho would do better than Guardiola is beyond me.

His Chelsea midfield got outplayed by one man lol Verrati destroyed 3 of them on his own after his partner got sent off.

Obviously Chelsea let there opponents have the ball, like Jose usually does.

 

[Canagel]

But it's not just improvement shown by stats. Can you remember the van Gaals days, the Moyes days? Performances are much better. I honestly don't see how anyone can think otherwise.

Our top level is better, our average performance level is better and our bottom level hasn't fallen as far as it did under Moyes or van Gaal. We create more chances, we score more goals, we win more games.

A good performance doesn't have to mean you dominate for 90 minutes. It's rarely happens for most clubs. You have to expect the opponent is likely to have spells in games where they are a threat. Think back to the glory days under Fergie, where we gained a reputation as comeback kings. We certainly weren't the better side for the whole 90 minutes many times but we were still the better side overall.

I enjoyed last season, because it felt like we were heading in the right direction. I don't mind grinding out results when previously we would have drawn or lost these types of matches. There's also the added bonus of how much it winds up our rivals when we do so.

Our best performance in the post fergie era was actually with LVG dominating 3 games against Spurs, City and Liverpool. Did you forget this? Those games were more in line of what should be expected from a United team certainly against the lower teams of the PL at least. We can dominate or show a certain level and where LVG failed was to get that consistently and was deservedly sacked at the end. He was a total control freak and it restricted the creativity of the team. Jose needed to keep the same idea of possession but allow more freedom for the attacking players to build on LVG. He didn't instead preferring to start from scratch again but we're not winning in his style either. The soaking up of pressure and hitting teams on the break. We don't get that either.
It's all over the place at the moment. One day we could be great and another day we could be terrible. There's no middle ground. We still rely too much on individuals to bail us out and most of our wins could be put down to 1 or 2 players turning up. Like Pogba and Sanchez in the derby last season. Or Martial scoring two goals at Chelsea and so on. Not necessarily the whole team playing well. That's my concern.
We have a good squad now but there's still more potential to be unleashed under a different manager.

 

[WensleyMU]

We had a better team than Sevilla and got eliminated because of Mourinho's cowardice. He did the same in his latter years at Chelsea and he would do the exact same at City if he was there.

How you can possibly think that this version of Mourinho would do better than Guardiola is beyond me.

It's pretty easy to understand why. Given Peps resources, assuming the same run of games, Jose doesn't get twatted by Liverpool and reaches the final.

And we lost to Seville because of stubborness and stupidity not cowardice. Dropping Pogba for some academy kid is certainly not cowardice, it was just stupid.

I'm not getting bogged down in this hypothetical anyway. It's simply a way of stating that either manager, has success at City with the massive unchecked backing.

 

[An Irish Red]

It's pretty easy to understand why. Given Peps resources, assuming the same run of games, Jose doesn't get twatted by Liverpool and reaches the final.

And we lost to Seville because of stubborness and stupidity not cowardice. Dropping Pogba for some academy kid is certainly not cowardice, it was just stupid.

In the same run of games Mourinho would have set up to defend against Liverpool and Roma; would have lost against one of them and would have created an excuse to justify it. That's what he does now.

That's if he even made it that far mind. Also, we lost to Sevilla because of cowardice. We were better than them and we sat back and invited pressure. It was cowardly.

 

[WensleyMU]

Our best performance in the post fergie era was actually with LVG dominating 3 games against Spurs, City and Liverpool. Did you forget this? Those games were more in line of what should be expected from a United team certainly against the lower teams of the PL at least. We can dominate or show a certain level and where LVG failed was to get that consistently. Jose has not built on this instead preferring to start from scratch again but we're not winning in his style either. The soaking up of pressure and hitting teams on the break. We don't get that either.
It's all over the place at the moment. One day we could be great and another day we could be terrible. There's no middle ground. We still rely too much on individuals to bail us out and most of our wins could be put down to 1 or 2 players turning up. Like Pogba and Sanchez in the derby last season. Or Martial scoring two goals at Chelsea and so on. Not necessarily the whole team playing well. That's my concern.
We have a good squad now but there's still more potential to be unleashed under a different manager.

Sadly they were the exception under van Gaal. Though very enjoyable seeing us completely out play them, especially Liverpool.

The foundations for Jose's style are a solid defence. There's a reason why in 2002 United broke the transfer record for Rio, why until the summer just gone, City's record signing was Laporte and why Klopp seemingly went made and broke Liverpool's transfer record for VVD. These players make average defences great, and great defences instil confidence in every player ahead of them.

Some people think CB isn't an area we need to address and these people couldn't be more wrong. Highest priority.

 

[Canagel]

Sadly they were the exception under van Gaal. Though very enjoyable seeing us completely out play them, especially Liverpool.

The foundations for Jose's style are a solid defence. There's a reason why in 2002 United broke the transfer record for Rio, why until the summer just gone, City's record signing was Laporte and why Klopp seemingly went made and broke Liverpool's transfer record for VVD. These players make average defences great, and great defences instil confidence in every player ahead of them.

Some people think CB isn't an area we need to address and these people couldn't be more wrong. Highest priority.

The difference between us and City/Liverpool is those teams were already playing strong attacking football even before the additions of Van Dijk/Laporte. You guys think it's simple as adding X player and our defence will be transformed. So are you saying we are a one man team then? There is no magic defender out there that will suddenly make us play without the handbrake. City and Liverpool buy defenders to play within a specific system and specific style. It's not always the defender is world class it's the system that made him better. Look at Otamendi for example. Great for City last season shite for Argentina. Why? It's the system and tactics.
We invite more shots on our goal than most teams to extent where only 4 teams have conceded more goals than us. That's not right.
Only City conceded less goals than us last season 28 (29 for us) and we still have the same defenders now. So what changed?
I said in another thread this CB talk has deflected attention away from our real problem which is the attack. We are a terrible attacking team and have been for a long time. It's just give it to Pogba or give it to Martial and hope something sticks. If all else fails hoof to Fellaini. We need more than this.
We missed some confidence with Lindelof but it's coming back now and I hope to see more from Bailly. If the right defender is available in the summer then we can strengthen. Clearly the right defender was not available for us this summer. McGuire, Mina, Boateng, Alderweirld none of these defenders were significantly better than what we have now.

 

[Roboc7]

No manager is going to refuse good players offered to him in position he wanted to strengthen in summer. Pretty sure if Ed went to Mourinho and told him that he agreed on signing RW but Willian is too old and expensive and we should search for an alternative with good quality and younger age like Bailley, Mourinho wouldn't have refused. Signing better than no one at all at the end.

And what we got from the briefing was that Woodward vetoed the signing because he thought we'll be replacing our 5th best defender with another 5th best defender so doesn't look like he was suggesting alternatives that're possible to get. He voted Mourinho's list and that's it.

What happened in summer sent the wrong message to everyone in the squad. That's not absolving Mourinho of any blame, as I said earlier he's responsible for us being far away from top 4, but what happened in summer is fully on Ed and his poor management.

No you can’t put it all on Woodward for all you know Mourinho was offered better alternatives and turned them down. If for example he wanted a proven winger like Willian or Perisic but was told by board no but you can have Malcolm instead there is every chance he would say no. If it’s not what he wants them that’s fair enough and it’s just a case of him and board not being on same page of how to move forward.

Maybe Mourinho let the board and club down with his targets and lack of alternatives. Mourinho had an agenda all summer, it backfired and that’s why we are where we are.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

No you can’t put it all on Woodward for all you know Mourinho was offered better alternatives and turned them down. If for example he wanted a proven winger like Willian or Perisic but was told by board no but you can have Malcolm instead there is every chance he would say no. If it’s not what he wants them that’s fair enough and it’s just a case of him and board not being on same page of how to move forward.

Maybe Mourinho let the board and club down with his targets and lack of alternatives. Mourinho had an agenda all summer, it backfired and that’s why we are where we are.

The alternative has to be reasonable - manager cannot ask for Harry Kane and board offers him Andy Cook as an alternative!

 

[Kapardin]

Our best performance in the post fergie era was actually with LVG dominating 3 games against Spurs, City and Liverpool. Did you forget this? Those games were more in line of what should be expected from a United team certainly against the lower teams of the PL at least. We can dominate or show a certain level and where LVG failed was to get that consistently and was deservedly sacked at the end. He was a total control freak and it restricted the creativity of the team. Jose needed to keep the same idea of possession but allow more freedom for the attacking players to build on LvG

LvG literally stumbled on that winning run due to injuries. But he ripped it apart and threw it out the window for the next season, which led to his downfall.

In a way, I get you. Jose should have kept some of the positives from LvG's tenure, like the focus on possession, and added his own signature of a solid defense to it. As an example, look at what Ancelotti is doing with Napoli. Their current style is still heavily Sarri-ball with a few characteristic tweaks.

Jose however, not only failed to capitalise on the possession play the players learned in 2 years, but he also tried to eke out a compromise between his own defensive style and the all out attack that our club expected in his first season. End result was a mess, so he reverted to over-cautiousness since the Anfield game last season. Even what he's doing now has no identity, but is more relying on the good form of Martial and Pogba, two players who don't really like his methods.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Best thing for us and Mou is for him to go to go to RM at the end of the season.

 

[Viral United]

i wouldnt put it past him, otherwise why play herrera as CB?

Maybe not as far as to lose outright but enough to put the results at risk.

Agree,
That what tipping point for me, he was too busy to prove his point than thinking what is best for team.

 

[Patrick08]

Simple maths kids.

• Pep takes over a squad with Kompany, Otamendi, Fernando, Delph, Fernandinho, KDB, Silva, Sterling, Aguero plus many other peak title winning players
  
• VERSUS
  
• DDG Smalling, Jones, Schneiderlain, Fellaini, Hererra Rooney Martial and Rashford
  
• The day both Mourinho and Pep took over their sides, I make City's squad about £500-600m more talented than Uniteds based on the above squads, maybe more than £600m of more talent.
  
• Then compare City spending roughly £550m
  
• VERSUS
  
• United spending roughly £350m
• Consider City's squad was already 600m better off, they've then invested over £200m more than United since then, making them about £800m better than United.

Yet fans throw their toys out of their prams when United don't storm to 100 points. Give your head a wobble it's embarrassing.

There is an x here, which is tactics, systems styles and intent. Our X factor is just not good enough. Mourinho's vision of playstyle is not working here and attracting players who are good on the ball and in prime of their careers, and without the results the combination is not looking feaseable .

 

[GhastlyHun]

It's also funny how many City players who were not rated on here, some bordering on laughing stock, have now always been way superior to their United counterparts.

 

[el3mel]

No you can’t put it all on Woodward for all you know Mourinho was offered better alternatives and turned them down. If for example he wanted a proven winger like Willian or Perisic but was told by board no but you can have Malcolm instead there is every chance he would say no. If it’s not what he wants them that’s fair enough and it’s just a case of him and board not being on same page of how to move forward.

Maybe Mourinho let the board and club down with his targets and lack of alternatives. Mourinho had an agenda all summer, it backfired and that’s why we are where we are.

There's nothing in th briefing that Ed did to media after the market closed that says that as I said. It was all "we voted the signings as they aren't better than our 5th best defender and we will only move for Varane" narrative.

How is Mourinho having an agenda during summer ? Why are you making it like he wants to fail here ? If anything he seems pretty annoged because he can't wn anyhing major here, while the club seemed totally content with what we did last year.

 

[fellaini's barber]

It's also funny how many City players who were not rated on here, some bordering on laughing stock, have now always been way superior to their United counterparts.

Not just City's, even Liverpool and Arse. Hell even Arsenals board are now better than ours

 

[Mainoldo]

There's nothing in th briefing that Ed did to media after the market closed that says that as I said. It was all "we voted the signings as they aren't better than our 5th best defender and we will only move for Varane" narrative.

How is Mourinho having an agenda during summer ? Why are you making it like he wants to fail here ? If anything he seems pretty annoged because he can't wn anyhing major here, while the club seemed totally content with what we did last year.

Chelsea didn’t get him a defender he plays high line following season and gets exposed for Terry’s lack of pace.

Chelsea don’t sign him Ben Hiem he plays Essien CB to prove a point they get knocked out of the Fa cup.

He gets praised for playing Varane but the real truth is he just fell out with Ramos and Pepe. Like most things he does Varane’s inclusion was just teaching them guys a lesson lol.

United don’t sign a defender he plays Fellaini and McTomminay as some false extra CB.

I think it’s pretty clear to say he likes making points he believes he can get away with. Shame he never learns they don’t work.

 

[Mainoldo]

Not just City's, even Liverpool and Arse. Hell even Arsenals board are now better than ours

Ay Arsenal’s board are terrific. They were fully prepared for Emrey got him all the players he wanted unlike Woody with Moyes lol.

 

[Garethw]

Not just City's, even Liverpool and Arse. Hell even Arsenals board are now better than ours

Yep, shit on the entire fecking club to protect their boy Mourinho. People need to have a word with themselves. This is Manchester United not Mourinho United.

 

[Kapardin]

There's nothing in th briefing that Ed did to media after the market closed that says that as I said. It was all "we voted the signings as they aren't better than our 5th best defender and we will only move for Varane" narrative.

How is Mourinho having an agenda during summer ? Why are you making it like he wants to fail here ? If anything he seems pretty annoged because he can't wn anyhing major here, while the club seemed totally content with what we did last year.

He wanted to buy players like Toby and Willian who would service his ambitions for one season and then decline like Matic. Likely was willing to even exchange Martial for Willian.

Good thing that didn't happen. Fact is, Toby and Willian won't help us win the league, and if we sign them, we will be stuck with them like we are with Matic and Sanchez. 2nd-4th isn't worth it. In the case of Willian, he isn't even that good.

 

[Roboc7]

There's nothing in th briefing that Ed did to media after the market closed that says that as I said. It was all "we voted the signings as they aren't better than our 5th best defender and we will only move for Varane" narrative.

How is Mourinho having an agenda during summer ? Why are you making it like he wants to fail here ? If anything he seems pretty annoged because he can't wn anyhing major here, while the club seemed totally content with what we did last year.

It’s a briefing for PR it doesn’t tell you what actually happened or offer any actual insight. No one knows what went on, who Mourinho’s actual targets were/if who alternatives were etc. Both sides seem to blame each and most likely explanation is they both failed.

Never said he deliberately set out to fail just that he didn’t do everything in his power to do the best he could. He was more concerned with getting his own way and making sure everyone knew it wouldn’t be his fault.

I think you would have to be delusional to think Mourinho has done a good job since last season ended. If he wants someone to blame for current situation he has to look at himself.

 

[Buster15]

Mate, Chelsea have been pretty successful for the past 14 years or so despite chopping and changing managers, so have Madrid and pretty much every successful club, so I have no clue what point you're trying to make by focusing on one one club or one successful season. You waltzed into the thread talking about how sacking Jose does not solve the problem so I'd like to know how the other sacking top clubs are managing to be successful

Firstly my friend, we are on the same side and want the same thing; United back at the very top.

It is not my intention to defend Jose.
What I was trying to point out was that Chelsea, who are often held as an example of constant manager change yet still successful are probably successful because of a high quality squad.

As I have said many times, I can fully understand why loyal United supporters want a change.
I am not a fan of constant change of coach as I do believe that stability can be a pathway to success and feel that the progression under Jose needs to be built on.

We are not too far away from being a winning team.
We clearly miss Zlatan leadership and goals and obviously need a top quality central defender.

I believe that Jose is trying to evolve his tactics to make us better on the eye but struggles with player consistency. Remember he knows how to win.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Ay Arsenal’s board are terrific. They were fully prepared for Emrey got him all the players he wanted unlike Woody with Moyes lol.

They hired Emery and two other blokes which made their whole playing style transform in 6 months, how is United supposed to compete with that? All our fecking board ever does for our managers is spend record money on loads of players, how is Jose supposed to work in such woeful and pitiful conditions? That Jose even has us at 8th is a miracle, we should be thankful to him we're not bottom half with this bunch of shite even after $400m

 

[sunama]

Good post. I 100% agree.

Maureen is like a spoilt brat that wants all the shiny new toys. You get other people, who make use of the toys they already have instead sulking and damaging them. Those are the managers are what we need.

It still irks me that Woodward let Klopp slip through the net.

So, you are suggesting that Klopp hasn't had any shiny new toys?
The most expensive defender in history of football?
Or how about a GK purchased, then failed, then replaced by the most expensive GK in history (at the time)?

It makes me wonder why some people support MUFC? They hate our manager, the players, the way the club is run, while they seem to love rival clubs. It makes no sense. Wouldn't it be better to just support another club, who you can get behind and be happy with?

I said this a while back, but I am convinced that rival supporters are creating accounts on this forum and then posting glowing reviews of their own club, while speaking badly about MUFC (and its staff).

 

[sunama]

They hired Emery and two other blokes which made their whole playing style transform in 6 months, how is United supposed to compete with that? All our fecking board ever does for our managers is spend record money on loads of players, how is Jose supposed to work in such woeful and pitiful conditions? That Jose even has us at 8th is a miracle, we should be thankful to him we're not bottom half with this bunch of shite even after $400m

You are behaving as if the season is over.
There are no prizes/trophies given out in November.
Let's see how the season pans out and then we can compare.
Last season, we finished 2nd. The only team which did better than us was MCFC. Your beloved Arsenal finished well below us.