The myth that an injury free Ledley King would have been better than Rio/JT...

Raees

Pythagoras in Boots
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Ledley King was in many ways an outstanding talent but I would argue he was more of a jack of all trades and master of none outside of his sheer athleticism. An injury free King would have pushed Rio and Terry closer no doubt and when they aged, have taken over from them as England's leading centre-back but to argue he would have undoubtedly surpassed Rio and Terry whilst they were in their prime is for me a myth perpetuated by Spurs fans. Furthermore, there is no way he or the others to be fair come close to Bobby Moore who was on another planet in terms of reading the game and ball-playing ability.

MYTHS...

Firstly Rio Ferdinand, in truth Ferdinand and King are very similar, they both have bags of pace and are very comfortable on the ball. Where King is better however is in his tackling ability and powers of recovery. He also has a lot more brain cells to call upon than Rio and is a much more likeable figure due to his calm and dignified persona.
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The same Rio who has proven himself at World Cup 2002 and the leading defender in United's 2007/08 run to the Champions League and two other finals.

The current England captain John Terry is one of those defenders who are fast becoming obsolete in the modern game. His rough and tumble style of defending is something that may work in the predominantly long ball nature of the English Premier League but is constantly found out in the more technical style of football played on the continent and indeed by most national sides. Ledley King has more of a footballing brain than Terry and can cope with any style of attacker he faces. This makes him more important to have in the team. Also Terry's penchant for trouble on and off the pitch gives the national team a bad name. You will never hear of Ledley King being involved in night club punch-ups.
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Personally I think Terry as much as he is a cnut is a very underrated player in general and IMO a better passer than King and whilst he would theoretically be more exposed than King in a 1 v 1 situation, he was clever enough to understand his own limitations and not be vulnerable. Also the story below does not show King in a particularly good light.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/englands-ledley-king-arrested-over-assault-1682413.html

"After five or 10 minutes he just turned around again and tried to push us," Wahib Butt told Sky. "We refused to let him come inside because he was so drunk. He started calling us different names and he started saying to me racist comments.

"He was saying to me that I'm fat, I'm earning less than him, he's a rich guy so he's got nothing to lose and I've got everything to lose. He should not be doing this because he should be setting a good example to people who follow him."

So is this United bias talking or is it a open and shut case... your thoughts on does King get a tad overrated?
 
Who has ever claimed this - perhaps his mum?

I do agree that he’s held in greater esteem than he should be due how many games he missed.

This happens with a lot of players who are injured, or ones that have their career curtailed early, especially at non top clubs, where there is not such a big spotlight on them.
 
Never in a million years.

Terry, at least on the caf, is extremely underrated. An absolute rock of a defender, great leader, and could play a lot more than he’s credited for too.
 
Raees said:



Ledley King was in many ways an outstanding talent but I would argue he was more of a jack of all trades and master of none outside of his sheer athleticism. An injury free King would have pushed Rio and Terry closer no doubt and when they aged, have taken over from them as England's leading centre-back but to argue he would have undoubtedly surpassed Rio and Terry whilst they were in their prime is for me a myth perpetuated by Spurs fans. Furthermore, there is no way he or the others to be fair come close to Bobby Moore who was on another planet in terms of reading the game and ball-playing ability.

MYTHS...



The same Rio who has proven himself at World Cup 2002 and the leading defender in United's 2007/08 run to the Champions League and two other finals.



Personally I think Terry as much as he is a cnut is a very underrated player in general and IMO a better passer than King and whilst he would theoretically be more exposed than King in a 1 v 1 situation, he was clever enough to understand his own limitations and not be vulnerable. Also the story below does not show King in a particularly good light.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/englands-ledley-king-arrested-over-assault-1682413.html

"After five or 10 minutes he just turned around again and tried to push us," Wahib Butt told Sky. "We refused to let him come inside because he was so drunk. He started calling us different names and he started saying to me racist comments.

"He was saying to me that I'm fat, I'm earning less than him, he's a rich guy so he's got nothing to lose and I've got everything to lose. He should not be doing this because he should be setting a good example to people who follow him."

So is this United bias talking or is it a open and shut case... your thoughts on does King get a tad overrated?
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Looks like all of this is based off of one article that’s 13 years old.

not sure I see the point in this thread.
 
I think the fact that he barely trained but still looked as good as he did holds him in a better light too than he would be if he was training consistently. Very good player but a level below them. Unfortunately for him he'd never be able to reach the levels of those two as they both were able to have something that he never could - consistency.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Looks like all of this is based off of one article that’s 13 years old.

not sure I see the point in this thread.
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The point is that there are some non United fans who think an injury free King could have matched or surpassed Rio and Terry. He was an undeniable footballing talent of elite quality but I think there is a discussion to be had that even withstanding those unfortunate injury issues... mentally and technically he gets overrated for example his passing was not anything to write home about.
 
Rio didn't have to put in tackles as much because his reading, positioning, and anticipation of the game (then his pace) was what put him head and shoulders above many other CBs, including King.

There was one stat that Rio hadn't gone months or matches without receiving a yellow, maybe even a foul against. But either way, Rio was a world-class footballer.
 
Raees said:
The point is that there are some non United fans who think an injury free King could have matched or surpassed Rio and Terry. He was an undeniable footballing talent of elite quality but I think there is a discussion to be had that even withstanding those unfortunate injury issues... mentally and technically he gets overrated for example his passing was not anything to write home about.
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Wes Brown was a more talented defender than King. Equally has severe injury issues

He doesn’t get the credit because he was surrounded by quality throughout his career - whilst King stood out for spurs, as when he actually did play, he was surrounded my mediocrity.

I just don’t see anyone even having a debate about him.
 
In 312 League appearances for the club (Manchester United) Rio only received one red card and 20 bookings, committing just 68 fouls in the process
 
These myths tend to accelerate online off the back of one quote by a pundit or ex manager. It's impossible to say but probably not
 
Players who are talented but don't end up actually playing as much as they could have always get highly rated, because effectively everyone gives them the benefit of the doubt on all that game time that never happened. It's a different facet of the thing that Ravel Morrison benefits from (that he could have been a superstar if he'd had the attitude). In fact, players who do get to play their careers out relatively untroubled by injury don't automatically fulfil their highest possible potential.

But it's one of the nicer human qualities about football fans that they like to imagine the best like this, so I wouldn't complain.
 
edcunited1878 said:
Rio didn't have to put in tackles as much because his reading, positioning, and anticipation of the game (then his pace) was what put him head and shoulders above many other CBs, including King.

There was one stat that Rio hadn't gone months or matches without receiving a yellow, maybe even a foul against. But either way, Rio was a world-class footballer.
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It was years without a yellow
 
Don’t think it was a myth he would have been up there for me, didn’t Henry said he was one of the hardest cbs to play against?
 
Rozay said:
Never in a million years.

Terry, at least on the caf, is extremely underrated. An absolute rock of a defender, great leader, and could play a lot more than he’s credited for too.
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Yes Terry was underrated as a footballer, could peg 60 yard passes with his left foot although he did have a penchant to overdo it.

Don’t think he’s underrated because while people can talk up his ability there is no denying he played in systems and had more protection than the likes of Rio ever had as a footballer.
 
Cutch said:
How is there no way Rio Ferdinand comes close to Bobby Moore in reading the game and ball playing. Are you sure about that?
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Rio is the closest for sure in terms of reading the game. Ball playing, Moore was a class apart .. his passing was fantastic and he actually contributed to the build up. Rio for me was very conservative due to being heavily criticised for being too nonchalant and careless. In terms of dribbling skills Rio was quality but he just didn't have the passing range for me.
 
fishfingers15 said:
Are you a Spurs fan?
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No but i feel he would have been up there I saw him in his prime and he looked equal to those two many a time.

Rio was always the most talented even going back to his days at West Ham, where he would be doing stepovers and drag backs as a centre half, but King wasn’t too far away in talent, an injury free Lesley King who is allowed to train and maximise his ability, an injury free King who is playing under a Ferguson or Mourinho goes right to the very top, his talent wasn’t in question.
 
Righteous Steps said:
Yes Terry was underrated as a footballer, could peg 60 yard passes with his left foot although he did have a penchant to overdo it.

Don’t think he’s underrated because while people can talk up his ability there is no denying he played in systems and had more protection than the likes of Rio ever had as a footballer.
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He played where he played, we judge what he did. Every player has different conditions, and I think there’s always a tendency to overdo it with the ‘well you can’t judge because he played games at higher altitude than x’. He played a lot of football matches, and was very good. He is not rated as a top defender for his team’s defensive record, he is rated because of the actual defending that he did. If he were so protected that he never even had to bother defending, then there would be nothing to praise. Protected or not, he was called into defensive action often enough for it to be judged. And he did it brilliantly.

Same happens on here with Gerrard. By the time the caf runs his name through some sort of specific algorithm, half of his qualities are stripped away/neutralised and he’s not all that. Everyone else can see him for what he was.
 
Raees said:
Guessing you've never spoken to a Spurs fan?

Just a random google search brings up below...

https://www.footballfancast.com/foo...e_best_english_centre_half_in_the_premiership
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...early-the-greatest-defender-of-his-generation
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So you’ve got two article written for football fancast and bleacher report as evidence that he was commonly claimed to have had the potential to be better than Rio and Terry? Right.
I’m sure some saints fans will claim that Le Tissier was better than Scholes, doesn’t mean it’s an actual widely held opinion.
 
Rozay said:
Never in a million years.

Terry, at least on the caf, is extremely underrated. An absolute rock of a defender, great leader, and could play a lot more than he’s credited for too.
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100% agree.
 
Rozay said:
He played where he played, we judge what he did. Every player has different conditions, and I think there’s always a tendency to overdo it with the ‘well you can’t judge because he played games at higher altitude than x’. He played a lot of football matches, and was very good. He is not rated as a top defender for his team’s defensive record, he is rated because of the actual defending that he did. If he were so protected that he never even had to bother defending, then there would be nothing to praise. Protected or not, he was called into defensive action often enough for it to be judged. And he did it brilliantly.

Same happens on here with Gerrard. By the time the caf runs his name through some sort of specific algorithm, half of his qualities are stripped away/neutralised and he’s not all that. Everyone else can see him for what he was.
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Cant argue with that, in fact the same can be said for players like Xavi, different players thrive in different systems.
 
Obviously, the man was an elite talent. Speed, strength, ball playing ability, and great reading of the game. A more natural tackler than Rio. What both had over him was in the air, he wasn't quite dominant in that sense.
 
Another cracking video Raees. But for this thread I think this is somewhat of a straw man argument. There may have been the odd comment and it may be a wider view on a Spurs forum, but neither of those are sufficient to establish a consensus. Most club forums are hilariously biased and become echo chambers over time. Even a relatively sane forum like this one still regularly dishes out scathing criticism of rival players.

So I'm not sure there's much of a credible view out there that he would have been better than Ferdinand and Terry. To be better than those two based on potential alone we would need to be talking about some unique and once-in-a-generation talent. But it is fair to say he would have been in the mix for a regular England shirt had he been fully fit through his career. He was already a very good defender, highly respected throughout the game and it's not inconceivable, with the consistency and fitness of regular training and games, that he could have established himself at the top in England. A lot of that respect arose from his performances when fit particularly when rested up for a big game when he typically looked in a different league to the other defenders on the park. For instance, it's well recognised that McGrath could have been an even greater defender without the demons of alcohol and injury that reigned in his talent.
 
Myths like this always develop. Half the people who come out with this crap don’t even remember King they’re just trying to sound more in the know about football than the other clowns they’re arguing with on Twitter.

Having said that he was a very good defender I always thought.
 
Rozay said:
Never in a million years.

Terry, at least on the caf, is extremely underrated. An absolute rock of a defender, great leader, and could play a lot more than he’s credited for too.
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I haven't watched him since his heyday many years ago, but that's how I remember him too. Puyol is another case like that (again from my memory).
 
RooneyLegend said:
Obviously, the man was an elite talent. Speed, strength, ball playing ability, and great reading of the game. A more natural tackler than Rio. What both had over him was in the air, he wasn't quite dominant in that sense.
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I actually thought his heading in general was better than Rio's and tackling technique is more stylish but Rio didn't have to go to ground as much as his reading of game was superior.
 
The fact that he played to a high standard while basically being unable to train is a testament to his ability. Having said that, when it comes to comparing players you have to go off their performances rather something intangible like potential. Ferdinand and Terry were both pretty incredible defenders and WC for a long period . King wasn’t sadly. I don’t know what King’s potential was, I know players and coaches around him rated him highly but it’s impossible to say what level he could have reached.

I don’t understand the purpose of including the nightclub story? We’re comparing them as players, if you want to compare them as personalities then include JT being a racist and Rio drink driving. I actually like Rio a lot, but I thought that was a weird way to end your post. ‘Hey guys King isn’t as good as Spurs fans think, also he’s a dick!’. What was the point of it?
 
Woodgate would have been a better one to debate. There was a brief period where Woodgate looked sensational.
 
If Terry didn't miss that penalty in CL final and even won it for Chelsea, I'm sure people would see him as one of the greatest CBs of all time.
Fantastic leader, an actual captain in a plastic team before it was trendy. It's funny how one mistake can turn great players into jokes. One slip and you're done for.
But still Ledley King cannot be compared to both players. We don't speak hypothetically when it comes into football. He proofed nothing to even come close to Rio and JT.
 
impossible to disprove it so I wouldn't exactly call it a myth

he was class though to be fair, on his day
 
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