The negativity is unreal | Nevermind

Acquire Me

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I have been a so called "Ole in" and I support our manager and players. Ole has done a lot of right things to build us up after Moyes, LvG and Mourinho.

He deserves credit for what he has done so far. I still stand behind him and our team. His in charge and I still hope he can find his and our teams way to become what we all know the can be.

I have serious doubts though, he might not have that "last bit" in him to guide us to become great. If we could get someone like Erik ten Hag now, I would take him. No doubt about it.

That said, why all the crazy negativity about him that just not make sense?

- He has built a fantastic team
- He has created good values and got rid of a very toxic environment.
- He got rid of players clearly not making the cut.
- He promoted youth into our first team.
- He started a process that imo has been excellent overall.

He has not been perfect all along, but no one are. He might not be the one in the end that brings glory back. But the man taking over will inherit something really good to work on.

So, why all the negativity on him. Even on him as player and legend. I find that extremely disgraceful.
 

Pickle85

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Agreed. I don't think he's got it in him to bring us the rest of the way and do think he needs to go but some of the things said about him have been shameful. Top man, has done a lot of good things in his time as manager and deserves better than some of the vitriol. He'll always be a United legend imo.
 

BrilliantOrange

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The idea is not that he hasnt done good stuff for us. I think he was the right manager at the right time, getting back the United feeling/atmosphere, giving youth chances, etc...

The negativity that he must leaves comes from the believe that he is - from here onwards - not the right manager to make the next step with us to become a genuine title contender. There is plenty of reason to believe he is tactically not up there and therefore not the right man to get the most outof this squad, which is really required if you want to beat this Liverpool and City..
 

2mufc0

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Yep agree, I always felt he needs to deliver something this year, otherwise he has to go. But until then I will always want us to win every game and support the manager and team.
 

Siorac

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You know, I woke up today and thought to myself: you know what RedCafe lacks these days? A thread to debate Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
 

Deery

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He’s made a lot of good changes and it has been one hell of a ride the excitement is back in football again, the criticism he gets is way over the top, still early in the season and he’s trying to get the team sorted out a team which he built so I think he deserves at least that.
 

arnie_ni

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Because we've been largely dreadful since Christmas or so? He's done a great job so far, but he can't take us further. It's obvious at this stage.
 

red thru&thru

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Yeah, he doesn't get enough credit. If we get in a manager like Ten Hag and then go on to win the league, it would be by the foundations that Ole and his team laid.
 

Ixion

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I see a lot of talk about what a fantastic team and squad he's built and I'm looking at the League table and thinking we could be in the bottom half in a couple of weeks. It is also a team that has won nothing and not shown it can be in a title race till the end of the season.
 

red thru&thru

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Because we've been dreadful. He's done a great job so far, but he can't take us further. It's obvious
And there's no need for fans to be negative and so toxic about it.

I believe most will think Ole can't take us any further, which is fine. However, to overlook the good job he's done at the club is just ridiculous.
 

arnie_ni

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And there's no need for fans to be negative and so toxic about it.

I believe most will think Ole can't take us any further, which is fine. However, to overlook the good job he's done at the club is just ridiculous.
Fans are negative because they are so passionate and believe with this squad we should be challenging for honours but our manager is holding us back. Criticism is inevitable
 

Acquire Me

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You know, I woke up today and thought to myself: you know what RedCafe lacks these days? A thread to debate Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
I made this thread because it’s just not sitting right on me personally. The man has done good things, most will agree on that. He might not make the cut to make us challenge on the highest level. He deserves respect for what he has done as manager and player.
 

roonster09

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The idea is not that he hasnt done good stuff for us. I think he was the right manager at the right time, getting back the United feeling/atmosphere, giving youth chances, etc...

The negativity that he must leaves comes from the believe that he is - from here onwards - not the right manager to make the next step with us to become a genuine title contender. There is plenty of reason to believe he is tactically not up there and therefore not the right man to get the most outof this squad, which is really required if you want to beat this Liverpool and City..
Spot on. He did good job but I don't think he has the ability to win the league.
 

amolbhatia50k

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I don't think a club like Manchester United (and fans thereof) can be happy or satisfied if they aren't winning top honors. Name another elite club where there isn't negativity when they go season after season neither winning anything nor challenging for the biggest trophies.
 

red thru&thru

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Fans are negative because they are so passionate and believe with this squad we should be challenging for honours but our manager is holding us back. Criticism is inevitable
And the manager has brought this squad together that people feel so passionate us challenging.

I also believe Ole won't be able to take us any further, but I can also acknowledge the good work he's done. Just need fans to have a balanced view, especially as we know Ole genuinely has the clubs best interests at heart.
 

Ayoba

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He has done a decent job, I agree and the signings have been good. But we need to start winning and competing for trophies now and he is not the right man for the job. We have to part ways and bring in a better manager, otherwise it's another season down the drain.
 

red thru&thru

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I don't think a club like Manchester United (and fans thereof) can be happy or satisfied if they aren't winning top honors. Name another elite club where there isn't negativity when they go season after season neither winning anything nor challenging for the biggest trophies.
Who says they're happy they're not winning the top honours?
 

IrishRedDevil

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We lose today, and we are 8 points behind Chelsea after 9 games. The league for United will be over.

Unreal negativity? Wise up.
 

Oranges038

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People are negative because they are used to seeing the team winning the league and they are used to it. There are at least two better teams and managers in the league right now. But the target for Man Utd should always be to win every game and win the league.

Doesn't matter if it's Ole or anyone else in charge, if the team isn't top of the league and smashing teams every week. There will be moaning about the manager and whether he's good enough.

Do I want to win every game? Yes. Do i expect it? No. Do I think this team would win the league under another manager? No.

Is Ole going to win the league? I don't think so. But I don't think there's another manager out there that could win it with this team either.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Some of the praise can be over the top.

People are acting like Ole took over Burnley and instilled a complete culture shift and transformed the club.

He has done a decent job. Nothing more and nothing less in all reality.

Jose Mourinho has literally achieved way more than him while managing us and he was a complete failure. And for the record, I was Jose out after the Sevilla presser debacle.

If you want to lower the standards for Ole specifically, then he has done an amazing job.

I'd rather leave that praise for managers that have us competing for top honors.

We might be 8 points behind Chelsea if Liverpool beat us and it's only October.
 

Siorac

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I see a lot of talk about what a fantastic team and squad he's built and I'm looking at the League table and thinking we could be in the bottom half in a couple of weeks. It is also a team that has won nothing and not shown it can be in a title race till the end of the season.
Yeah, frankly, at this point talking about what a fantastic team he's build isn't really a positive for Ole unless results AND performances start improving at a rapid rate.

Because if you think about it, if the squad is so fantastic, why is it performing so poorly? And if this is the squad's actual level, then where did all that money go? In both cases the buck stops with the manager.
 

VP89

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He was alright for a while but has clearly not been up to the standard for a long while now. The longer he stays the more negative the mindset will be among fans and that's not abnormal.
 

TrueRed79

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Some of the abuse thrown at him around here is downright embarrassing. Plastic, glory hunting cnuts. The reality is it does look like he has taken us as far as he can at this point. I have said it many times that i hope he turns it around, but sometimes the facts stare you straight in the face and you have to accept it. I don't think he will be sacked anytime soon, so people need to chill, but i think he has hit his ceiling three years in, it's obvious. Your points are valid though OP.
 

arnie_ni

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And the manager has brought this squad together that people feel so passionate us challenging.

I also believe Ole won't be able to take us any further, but I can also acknowledge the good work he's done. Just need fans to have a balanced view, especially as we know Ole genuinely has the clubs best interests at heart.
That's pretty irrelevant to what he's doing now on the pitch when we are discussing him though. You can't keep saying ah he's done good, let's give him another go.

I actually think we will win today though.
 

Devil may care

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I think most of us have given him a lot of time despite zero belief that he can win a PL or CL because he's done some good things at the club, is very likable and a club hero. However he's 3 years in and we don't look any better and we still have no style of play, we look like a set of individuals, not a team.
Compare that to City, Liverpool and Chelsea and it's even more concerning as they all look vastly superior, especially Liverpool and City who are well oiled machines who are not just producing results but playing great football. Midfield balance aside Ole has a team that should be playing much better and he's not helped by the fact he has rookie coaches and an assistant from a different era.
 

Fooza

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We lose today, and we are 8 points behind Chelsea after 9 games. The league for United will be over.

Unreal negativity? Wise up.
This, people need to get real to the situation of how behind we can fall this season.
 

AndySmith1990

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Of course there's negativity; we're no where near as good as we can be and it's entirely the clubs fault. Our three main rivals look incredibly strong, and destroy teams on a consistent basis with entertaining, free flowing attacking football, whilst we plod along with our team of superstars struggling to string a few passes together, and relying on Ronaldo to bail us out in the last minutes of matches.

Fans who care about the club above individuals are bothered by this and are expressing their frustration and anger. As long as it remains respectful and it's not descending in to personal attacks, then the negativity is perfectly valid.
 

Biggins

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We lose today, and we are 8 points behind Chelsea after 9 games. The league for United will be over.

Unreal negativity? Wise up.
Just out of curiosity. If the positions were reversed and we were 8 points ahead, would you still say that the league is over? Chelsea could be even 12 points ahead but it really is impossible to say that the league is over after 9 games...
 

MrBest

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The club should be bigger than the manager and any players, that should always be the number one point.

I think Ole has done a brilliant job to culturally reset the club, he has drummed the values and belief back after Jose destroyed a lot of the feel good factor.

Footballing wise, he has been backed and spent 450m. Of the players he has accumulated, i would say DVB, Pallestri and Amad were signings he did not want, and maybe he was not backed with a midfielder he wanted but WH were asking for 100m for Rice and Camavingha clearly wanted to move to Madrid. The defence is now his, AWB in his third year, Harry in his second and Varane, an established world class CB arrived in the summer. Bruno has been a revelation at this club and I believe has saved his job over many occasions in the 18 plus months he has been here. He got the right winger he wanted in Sancho and there are not many managers that would say no to Ronnie, infact Ronaldo is the striker profile he wanted from the start, a hungry instinctive goalscorer. Pogba was already here, Shaw's talent has matured, De Gea is still class and we have Henderson as a back up.

On paper, we have probably the best attacking line up in the world after maybe PSG. My first negativity on Ole is I do not believe he knows how to handle a squad of players. He has his favourites he trusts whilst the others get isolated and do not get much match time. The second issue is his style of play, from what I see, we try to get the ball to the forward 3 plus Bruno as quick as possible and then just hope one of them will produce something. I think he has failed with Pogba, to find his right position. I also believe there is a player in Fred and squad player in Mctominay but they are playing in roles that are not naturally suited to them. It has been three years since he has been here, that is a long time in modern football, but we are still on the wavelength of seasonal ups and downs. I think 20 years ago, this would be okay, but City, Liverpool and more recently Chelsea have changed expectations in this league. Getting to 90 points or more used to be a rare thing, and usually one team would do this. In recent years, Liverpool and City raised this bar but have also raised the expectation of goals scored and goal diff. From the evidence I have seen, Ole does not have the ability to do the same, we need an exceptional manager that demands more and more from the team. What the question should be to Ole, is how does he bridge this game and when.

When he first joined, he said we should be challenging for the title in his third year. Well here we are, his target year has arrived but so far this season, we look lost. We had the easiest run of fixtures out of the top 6 over the first block of games and we have not capitalised. Ole really needs to be putting teams away but I find myself as nervous before a Villa game as I would against a Man City. Yes this is the best league in the world and every team has improved, but we have spent 450m on spme great players and our return on this has not been acceptable.

I qould be happy for Ole to go tomorrow but equally, i go into every game hoping he wins and that is his turning point but unfortunately you can only live on hope for so long before you need to show results.

I think the final issue is less on Ole but a massive issue at this club. We breed propaganda, that is why Ole is manager. Look at Lampard, was the perfect story but he didn't cut it, he couldn't deliver and Roman wants to win., Tuchal was turned Chelsea around. The club want a heros story so the feed us with positivity through every media channel. Maybe Ole can do it eventually, but 3 years since a title, 4 years since any trophey and i feel the gap is widening with chelsea coming into the mix, city are always there and Liverpool clearly overtaken us and one day soon will have the most english titles.

Football is a results business, 3 years is a long time to transition especially when the investment in players has been there. I now believe Ole will look for excuses, which he has so far, and blame it on a transition and new players coming in. Every year, every team has new players coming in, they dont regress with them, they look to integrate. Sancho has been a bit part player so far, Varane has been good and Ronaldo does not need a introduction.
 

Lecland07

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Here is a question: has there actually been all that much improvement? Squad-wise, yes, but I think that has a lot to do with the changes in how our transfers are handled. And taking away some of the control from the manager.

In terms of playstyle and results, the improvement has been pretty negligible or, arguably, non-existent.

18/19: 66 points
19/20: 66 points
20/21: 74 points
21/22: 66 points (extrapolated this season)

Goals per game (biggest result removed)

18/19: 1.71
19/20: 1.73
20/21: 1.92 (1.72)
21/22: 2 (1.57)

Ignoring the 5 goal win this season and the 9 goal win last season, you can see, on average, that we are not actually scoring many from game to game. In fact, it has not really moved from when he took over. Last season, in particular, was inflated by the 9 goal win, which I do not put much stock in as that requires the opposition to be worse than Derby. Even they didn't concede 9 goals in one game, and they are the worst team in Premier League history.

That is why I don't really buy into the improvements that Solskjaer has made all that much.
 

Catt

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I was against hiring Solskjær, but he's done well assembling a good squad and seemingly does a lot of good work. However, since we have a really good team we should also be up there fighting for the league and CL.

I think the negativity is tiring and over the top though and largely avoid the forum these days.
 

red thru&thru

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That's pretty irrelevant to what he's doing now on the pitch when we are discussing him though. You can't keep saying ah he's done good, let's give him another go.

I actually think we will win today though.
That's the problem right there. Why can't you look at what he's currently doing and look at his overall work?
 

red thru&thru

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I was against hiring Solskjær, but he's done well assembling a good squad and seemingly does a lot of good work. However, since we have a really good team we should also be up there fighting for the league and CL.

I think the negativity is tiring and over the top though and largely avoid the forum these days.
Catt, exactly this!
 

RedRonaldo

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This is why we are sitting and heading towards mediocrity while other top teams are flying, as we will just stick by our underperforming managers no matter what, until our season is totally fecked. Or we are just happy to be the new Liverpool in the 90s - 2000s, enjoy the trophy-less years/decades.
 

Chairman Steve

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Some of my frustrations towards Solskjaer stem from the fact that our board have a history of being passive, reactive, never having a plan and always seem to have a habit of making a correct decision much later than it should have been.

Chelsea sacked Lampard at the correct moment and haven’t looked back since Tuchel came in
Liverpool dumped Rodgers to get Klopp and certainly haven’t looked back since.

We sacked Moyes only after Top 4 wasnt attainable. We probably should have sacked LVG around Xmas 2015/January 2016. We should have parted ways with Jose in Summer 2018 if we weren’t going to back him in the transfer market.

So I‘m leaning towards them being passive once again. I think the majority of fans now at the very least, have second thoughts about Solskjaer being the guy to take us forward.
 

arnie_ni

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That's the problem right there. Why can't you look at what he's currently doing and look at his overall work?
I technically am looking at his overall work, the performances on the pitch haven't improved and we rely too much on individual brilliance, mainly from Bruno.

Hes spent how much on defenders and we haven't kept a clean sheet in 20 odd games?

Hes built a good squad but hasn't bought a CM.

I could go on.... he's taken us as far as he can I think.