The new MUST shirt

Sultan

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ciderman9000000 said:
:lol: Exactly how gullible do MUST think we are?

Do they seriously expect us to believe that anything negative that happens at the club is all down to the Glazers because they're the baddies, and that anything positive that happens at the club is all down to MUST because they're the goodies? And on top of that, if it ever at first glance it appears that the Glazers might have done something positive and may not be the ultimate baddies that we've been led to believe them to be, then this is all because MUST forced them to act the way they did because they're baddies and so... what was the quote...? 'There's no other explanation'?

:lol::lol::lol:

ffs
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The post reads like the famous words of GW Bush "you're either with us or against us".

No Cider, opinions comes in a variety of flavours, and maybe a lot of people don't need to take sides.
 

B Cantona

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Ferguson plays fast and loose with the truth on a regular basis Cider, you're a mug if you think anything otherwise. It might be for a good reason or whatever of course, protecting the players and whatnot

I'll leave you to it at this point, this thread is to do with the new released shirt I happen to think looks pretty damn good. You're looking for an another avenue to spew your bitterness towards MUST, I'll let someone else play the game with you
 

ciderman9000000

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Ah sorry, this is what they actually said:

In any case it is the only logical explanation for the sequence of events described.
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Well, apart from the other logical explanations, yeah? Those that don't require the great leaps of logic that're expected in the above explanation? Apart from those ones, right, MUST?
 

Redlambs

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Sultan said:
I don't agree with some of MUST tactics, yet I am sure without MUST's efforts over the last 5 years the situation will have been different for the fans.
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Yeah, we might have some communication with them ;)


Seriously though, I'm not surprised MUST have said all that, it fits their M.O. and it's what has got them all those members. I have a lot of time for the guys who started it all and all those who run it (and still have the right goal IMO), but as I've said many times before, I don't trust them and their claims like I don't most politicians.

There's just too much bullshit coming from them now to take anything seriously. Which is a big shame, since I still believe the fans can change the important issues affecting us.


I like the shirt though, a big improvement over the original. It's just unfortunate what's in the badge location.
 

Sultan

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Redlambs said:
Yeah, we might have some communication with them ;)


Seriously though, I'm not surprised MUST have said all that, it fits their M.O. and it's what has got them all those members. I have a lot of time for the guys who started it all and all those who run it (and still have the right goal IMO), but as I've said many times before, I don't trust them and their claims like I don't most politicians.

There's just too much bullshit coming from them now to take anything seriously. Which is a big shame, since I still believe the fans can change the important issues affecting us.


I like the shirt though, a big improvement over the original. It's just unfortunate what's in the badge location.
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That's about right mate.

The important lesson to learn by the law makers banning any silly leveraged buy out of clubs.

The shirt is does look nice.
 

ciderman9000000

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Whether the shirt looks nice or not is entirely irrelevant, surely? It looks nice because it's a replica of a famous United shirt.
 

Sultan

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ciderman9000000 said:
Yeah there's nothing wrong with how Barca's run, why would he have cause to criticise them? They're a very well run club by all accounts.
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It's MUST's agenda to have fan ownership, similar to Barca. You can argue if that's achievable, or the way they're going about their aims is contentious.
 

ciderman9000000

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Sultan said:
It's MUST's agenda to have fan ownership, similar to Barca. You can argue if that's achievable, or the way they're going about their aims is contentious.
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I'd like fan ownership too. I suppose. It'd be interesting to say the least. But then I've got no qualms with traditional private ownership.

I'm not gonna smash my house down just because the one across the street looks nice.

For a start, who's to say I'll ever get the house across the street?

For an organisation who's so critical of risk taking in the Glazer camp, MUST sure don't seem to give a flying feck about taking risks themselves.
 

Sultan

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ciderman9000000 said:
I'd like fan ownership too. I suppose. It'd be interesting to say the least. But then I've got no qualms with traditional private ownership.

I'm not gonna smash my house down just because the one across the street looks nice.
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I'm not against private ownership and from your comment you also agree MUST's aims are right.

The rest of your post is difficult to agree with, because it's obvious we cannot equate a normal business to owning a football club.
 

ciderman9000000

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Sultan said:
I'm not against private ownership and from your comment you also agree MUST's aims are right.

The rest of your post is difficult to agree with, because it's obvious we cannot equate a normal business to owning a football club.
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I've little opinion of their aims either way. I've nothing to base any opinion on; what works for Barca would not necessarily work for us; different league, different country, different circumstances, different set-up. Hasn't Barca always had fan-ownership?

I'm not saying fan-ownership is bad; who knows whether or not it'd work? Maybe it'd be great. Even if it were easily achievable though, it'd be a big risk, wouldn't you agree? We've no idea how it'd even function, let alone whether or not it'd be successful, no idea whatsoever. Jenson Button can race F1, he's always done that; doesn't mean I can jump in a racing car and thrash it around without killing myself.

Why is MUST's risky agenda praised so highly then whilst they continue to condemn the supposedly risky Glazer strategy which actually seems to be working out?

That's without even mentioning MUST's destructive methodology. If I believed that the end justified the means then I'd quite happily kill people for a living.

Please excuse my overuse of analogy, I'm very drunk.
 

Sultan

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ciderman9000000 said:
I've little opinion of their aims either way. I've nothing to base any opinion on; what works for Barca would not necessarily work for us; different league, different country, different circumstances, different set-up. Hasn't Barca always had fan-ownership?

I'm not saying fan-ownership is bad; who knows whether or not it'd work? Maybe it'd be great. Even if it were easily achievable though, it'd be a big risk, wouldn't you agree? We've no idea how it'd even function, let alone whether or not it'd be successful, no idea whatsoever. Jenson Button can race F1, he's always done that; doesn't mean I can jump in a racing car and thrash it around without killing myself.

Why is MUST's risky agenda praised so highly then whilst they continue to condemn the Glazer strategy which seems to be working out?

That's without even mentioning MUST's destructive methodology. If I believed that the end justified the means then I'd quite happily kill people for a living.

Please excuse my overuse of analogy, I'm very drunk.
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I quote

Certainly, there is much to be admired about the structure and rules that govern club ownership and management in Germany. However, like all management models, it is not perfect.

Put simply, football clubs in Germany are sporting associations. Many were formed many years before football was fully codified, as gymnastic clubs. They are not businesses per se although elements of the club can be run as such. The most apparent advantage to this is that any surplus generated by a club stays within the club and is not used to pay off someone else’s debt or to swell the coffers of a non football business.

The basis of the German model is the 50+1 rule whereby a minimum of 51% of the club must be owned by club members. This still allows for considerable investment opportunities for private business to invest while preventing them from having overall control of the direction of the club. A Bundesliga club board is made up of delegates selected by the shareholders. That way the supporter membership associations or Mutterveiren have a direct say on the management of the club.

The benefits to this method are clear, especially to English supporters who long for an end to the days where English clubs are subject to the whims and excesses of individual owners or uncaring capitalists who use their club to clear their own debts. Corporate interest is curtailed by the interests of the supporters. As long as the supporters have the best interest of the club at heart, that club is unlikely to allow itself to become mismanaged.
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Sultan

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I think we're going off topic just slightly. I'm out man. I should know better.
 

mariachi-19

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B Cantona said:
I suppose that's understandable, even if I think its misguided. Ciderman was the complete tit of the whole affair, I'm sure everyone can agree on that at least

I think MUST have done a fair bit more than just speculate to this point. You'd do well to take a leaf out of Sultan's book and analyse things a tad more objectively
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Right, so Cider is the tit in the whole affair, despite the fact, he wasn't the one that ran to the head of MUST telling them of the fact that they somebody had said something on message board. That same organization then threatened a Manchester United message board and member with legal action... The only tits in that whole affair were the idiots at Must.
 

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Im staying out of the MUST debate here - have made my views clear enough times.

The shirt looks decent enough but then it is based on a classic United shirt - not that I would ever buy it of course, just the same as I would never buy an official replica.

However I would be interested to know more about the whole initiative. Are Sharp paying for the advertising? What happens to the money?
 

Lance Uppercut

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Just seen the e-mail. Like the shirt.

Less impressed by the associated blurb.



The "only logical explanation"? Really? I mean, come on. Who writes these damn things? :confused:
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:lol:

If that bullshit came from The Spirit of Shankly, we would all (rightfully) piss ourselves.

What is wrong with these dummies?
 

Gambit

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On the Barcelona Debt
Extent of Barcelona's debt revealed by fresh audit
A new audit into Barcelona's finances have revealed the club's debt is 442m euros (£369.5m) after a loss of more than 77m euros (£64.36m) last season.

The previous board, led by Joan Laporta, had announced the club was 11m euros in the black at the end of June.

But a new audit carried out by Deloitte for new president Sandro Rosell's team reveals a far less healthy scenario.

The news comes as Barca spokesman Toni Freixa said Arsenal are still refusing to negotiate the sale of Cesc Fabregas.

Fabregas has been the subject of a transfer saga which has run all summer, with departed Barca president Laporta and Rosell both left frustrated by Arsenal's tough stance.

Since having a 35m euro (£29m) bid turned down earlier this summer, Barca have made several attempts to speak to Arsenal, but Freixa says the Londoners are unwilling to budge.
"Arsenal don't want to sit down and negotiate with us. It's not a problem with the wishes of Cesc or of Barca - they simply don't want to negotiate," he said.

Fabregas, who still has five years to run on his Arsenal contract, has stated he would like to play for Barcelona, while Barca players such as Andres Iniesta, Xavi and David Villa have all publicly urged the 23-year-old to leave London for the Catalan giants this summer.

Still, along with Arsenal's unwillingness to enter negotiations, it remains uncertain whether Barcelona could afford what would almost certainly be a weighty fee for the Gunners playmaker.

The audit shows that Barca's costs in the 2009-10 season rose to £400m, with their income at £341.7m.

Barca also had to recently take out a loan of around £125m after falling behind with the payment of player wages at the end of June, while central defender Dymtro Chygrynskiy was hastily sold to Shakhtar Donetsk to raise much-needed funds for the club.

Nevertheless, Barca have already signed striker Villa this summer for £33.4m and are willing to spend as much or even more to bring Arsenal midfielder Fabregas to the Nou Camp, Rossell said earlier this month.
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From July, I wonder if they'll get punished under the new laws. They are making an annual loss so they should fall foul of the new fair play laws.
 
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