The no signings excuse is sad

[Sylar]

We cant compare ourselves to Spurs. Spurs have had a manager and team settled for 2 years longer than United. Their team last season imo underperformed whilst Jose had United over-performing at times.

For all this talk about signings, the issue is that 3 of the back 4 tonight were there under Fergie and all 3 of them have regressed in those years. (and on top of that making individual mistakes).

Yes Jose signed Bailly and Lindelof, two young CBs. But saying Jose bought them, means that Jose must have a 100% transfer records.

Its clear we needed another CB and Jose wanted that. He had a list of 5 or whatever and we didnt get the one that would/could have brought leadership to our team. Its obvious by watching the two teams how much of a difference Toby.A would have made to us.
Its frustrating that we hired Jose (knowing what he brings), let him build for 2 seasons, gave him an extension, then didnt provide / back him for the third season after finishing second.

 

[CM]

It's a lazy excuse thrown around to justify the lack of progression. The failure to sign a centre-back doesn't explain why we're so toothless going forward, or the style of football the manager employs, or why he is incapable of getting more from a team in which he's already invested £400m.

I think Mourinho is the only manager in world football afforded this excuse. How many players does he have to sign before we accept it's 'his' team? How much money has to be spent before we come to the realisation he has to take some accountability?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

So how did their squad ended up finishing below us last season and generally have a worst season than ours?

Fast forward from that, we actually even added another player for decent money while they had no activity this summer yet we end up looking worse then them.

Its called a miracle. JM told people it was his greatest achievement to finish second with the squad issues he had. People laughed. Well thw first 3 games this season havent lied....

Now tell me what sounds dumber than ignoring factual arguments backed with proof while burying one's head in the sand and straw grasping at every single excuse that pops up in your head

Seriously? You think pointing out the fact Spurs doesn't have a commanding experienced center back issue, a right flabk issue of no zero attacking quality at right back and zero right wingers, is good enough reason to not compare their signing no one to us not signing what our manager asked for is 'grasping at straws'? When not only did Spurs not sign. They have lost nobody. Another fact

Yet for us not only did we not sign what we needed to plug all our holes. Its a fact we have also lost Blind and Carrick in one summer. Two players who if eveb one were aroumd would never have seen us with Herrera as a center half in a top 6 clash. A third fact?

Man quit talking out your arse

 

[endless_wheelies]

Like many have already said, Spurs had a far better rounded squad with no glaring holes in the first 11.

 

[endless_wheelies]

Also why specifically is it "sad"?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

We cant compare ourselves to Spurs. Spurs have had a manager and team settled for 2 years longer than United. Their team last season imo underperformed whilst Jose had United over-performing at times.

For all this talk about signings, the issue is that 3 of the back 4 tonight were there under Fergie and all 3 of them have regressed in those years. (and on top of that making individual mistakes).

Yes Jose signed Bailly and Lindelof, two young CBs. But saying Jose bought them, means that Jose must have a 100% transfer records.

Its clear we needed another CB and Jose wanted that. He had a list of 5 or whatever and we didnt get the one that would/could have brought leadership to our team. Its obvious by watching the two teams how much of a difference Toby.A would have made to us.
Its frustrating that we hired Jose (knowing what he brings), let him build for 2 seasons, gave him an extension, then didnt provide / back him for the third season after finishing second.

spot on. I have zero love for JM. But attempting to blame him for the current state of affairs laughable. On top of ironically being the very thing that is sad

 

[meamth]

That performance I blame solely on the players. Mourinho might have some mistakes in prefering Matic who clearly unfit.

The tactics was right to score early goals..but we didn't! Lukaku paid the price again for not scoring early.

 

[goin4glory]

People harping on about lack of new signings and jumping Ed's throat make me laugh, especially after today's game.

Tottenham who didn't sign anyone and finished below us last season are showing improvement and looking a far better team than they were last season yet here we are trying to excuse our incompetence on lack of signings.

We didn't lose any players and should be able to show improvement with the same players from last seasons. Tottenham have shown that this signing story is a myth and just a sad excuse brought up.

Every player in the spurs defence would make our 11. They didn't need signings.

 

[Reddevildans]

We have spent a hell of a lot of money under mourinho. It's not investment that's the problem but bad management and bad recruitment.

 

[Bearded One]

Spurs didn't have need to sign players is also a myth. They have not won anything with about the same set of players whilst their competitors (including some that consistently finish ahead of them) keep improving every season.

That's an excerpt from my post. I did mention that they have won nothing all these years even though some of the teams that have finished ahead of them keep improving. Now if you would include carabao/carling/whatever cups and fa cups, you and I know that your list would include a few more names and that's my point that we try to justify City's style, approach and results with money and when the same yardstick is used to judge between us that those "few other names", we throw the money factor right out of the window.

You've got to understand that if you will get your financiers to open their wallets, you've got to earn their trust.

Players that we were very sure would take the epl by storm have been big disappointments so far and the buck stops with the manager. If you can't earn their trust they won't continue to dole the cash.

Liverpool in particular look like they know exactly what they want in the market and simply go for it and guess what, that player becomes an instant success but we like to make excuses all the time. Yes no manager will get it right 100% of the times but please and please lets show some purpose, let's show progress, let's show that we know what we are doing because at the moment it looks like we dont.

Which teams are these?

Teams who’ve finished ahead of Spurs last 3 seasons:

2017/18 Man C, Man Utd
2016/17 Chelsea
2015/16 Leicester, Arsenal

Not a lot of consistency there.

 

[tentan]

Pogba, Lukaku, Matic, Fred and Sanchez - thats enough to win.

 

[GlastonSpur]

But Spurs had an excellent defence and the rest of it anyway built up over two or three seasons so they had no need for new players.

This wasn't the favoured narrative on here over the summer. Instead it was: Spurs are stagnating and will be left behind by their big-spending rivals.

In vain did I point to the greatly under-rated quality of continuity and continuing to develop the players that we already have. And in vain did I point to Lucas Moura having only arrived in January and looking very good in pre-season.

But instead, as usually happens, the transfer window is treated by many as some kind of race to see who can spend the most and who can bring in the most new players … and this is used as the yard-stick for making predictions about the season to come.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Ok now Spurs has a better team with better players, what was the excuse last week?

 

[MrBest]

Jose can only play with the people he's got. Its not his fault that all our CBs are crap

He bought 2 of them.

 

[Ekeke]

People harping on about lack of new signings and jumping Ed's throat make me laugh, especially after today's game.

Tottenham who didn't sign anyone and finished below us last season are showing improvement and looking a far better team than they were last season yet here we are trying to excuse our incompetence on lack of signings.

We didn't lose any players and should be able to show improvement with the same players from last seasons. Tottenham have shown that this signing story is a myth and just a sad excuse brought up.

Very good point.

 

[Sylar]

He bought 2 of them.

Which he wanted to supplement / rectify / help bring them on given they are both young (both turned 24 earlier this year)

 

[Jezpeza]

Very good point.

Yeah I suppose when you have hungry young talented players like Alli and Kane etc but we have held onto players over the summer who have been total turd forever like jones. What’s that old saying?????

 

[Ekeke]

Yeah I suppose when you have hungry young talented players like Alli and Kane etc but we have held onto players over the summer who have been total turd forever like jones. What’s that old saying?????

Alli has been up and down and we signed our big high value striker who isnt much older than Kane. They were just more clinical with their chances

 

[Jezpeza]

Alli has been up and down and we signed our big high value striker who isnt much older than Kane. They were just more clinical with their chances

But you just agreed with a post about Tottenham developing what they had? But now Alli is up and down and we have an equivalent to Kane? I’m confused to what your point was. We don’t have players we can develop we have shite.

Tell me how anyone improves shit like Rojo Jones Darmian Mata Fellaini Young Valencia Shaw? What promise do any of them show and what have any of them ever done in a United Shirt to show that they might improve? I know people have barely seen Jones play because he’s always injured but he’s 26 now hardly a prospect any more. Rojo is a geriatric as well he’ll drop a tin of beans on his foot at horn tomorrow and be out for two years again.

We conceded 3 tonight so now it’s 7 in 3 games, it’s obvious where we are shite. Also looking at our squad on paper it’s obvious what our most shite department is but people still just won’t have it

 

[MrBest]

Which he wanted to supplement / rectify / help bring them on given they are both young (both turned 24 earlier this year)

So if he knew CB was an issue and a big one why didn't he previously sort this out? Last year we had the second best defence, i know de gea was a massive reason for this. The root cause of our issues is not defence for me, it's the fact there is no pride and confidence in our players. We have no leaders or the leaders we have are not pulling there weight. Our midfield make stupid errors time after time and leave our defenders exposed. Our defenders make mistakes in positioning that you see in Sunday league. The atmosphere is clearly toxic and whether that is Jose or the players, Jose needs to go because you cannot sack 25 players.

 

[Ekeke]

But you just agreed with a post about Tottenham developing what they had? But now Alli is up and down and we have an equivalent to Kane? I’m confused to what your point was. We don’t have players we can develop we have shite.

Tell me how anyone improves shit like Rojo Jones Darmian Mata Fellaini Young Valencia Shaw? What promise do any of them show and what have any of them ever done in a United Shirt to show that they might improve? I know people have barely seen Jones play because he’s always injured but he’s 26 now hardly a prospect any more. Rojo is a geriatric as well he’ll drop a tin of beans on his foot at horn tomorrow and be out for two years again.

We conceded 3 tonight so now it’s 7 in 3 games, it’s obvious where we are shite. Also looking at our squad on paper it’s obvious what our most shite department is but people still just won’t have it

We dont have shite.

Alli was a signing and while young, he's had good times and not so good. Today he did well.

We have bought what we considered to be alternatives to the kind of players you mentioned. We just havent bought as well as Spurs have.

And I agreed with a post saying there is no argument that we needed signings to do better than we're doing. Spurs didnt make signings and we finished above them. I suggest you read his post again

 

[LeftyBlaster]

Spurs didn't need anyone. They have tons of players and quality all over the field. United don't. That's the difference. Players aren't good enough and that's the owners fault.

Sorry. But what a load of shite. If I gave you ours and Spurs squad on paper and didn’t tell you which squad belonged to which team, you’d seriously pick theirs overs ours?

 

[Lord Vader]

Pochettino's game plan doesn't include playing mind games with his players or with the media; Mourhino's does, but there's a short shelf life with that approach. If I were a world-class player, no way in hell would I play for Jose; City or Spurs or any club where the manager doesn't try to get inside your head every day.

Jose was brought in to win trophies with Moyes' old squad, and he did this right away: Community Shield, League Cup, Europa title. But I think that's as far as head games will go.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

People harping on about lack of new signings and jumping Ed's throat make me laugh, especially after today's game.

Tottenham who didn't sign anyone and finished below us last season are showing improvement and looking a far better team than they were last season yet here we are trying to excuse our incompetence on lack of signings.

We didn't lose any players and should be able to show improvement with the same players from last seasons. Tottenham have shown that this signing story is a myth and just a sad excuse brought up.

Pointless comparison as Spurs have a better squad than us and are showing improvement as any complete squad with the same manager would the next season. Our squad needed and needs signings desperately. No wingers Valencia still playing as a right back after all these years below average centrebacks and a striker that resembles a boxer.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

I can not believe that some people think Spurs have a better squad than us.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Yep, most of Mourinho's signings are average anyway, we don't need more average players. The fact is he's way past his prime and can't coach attacking football, just get rid of him. The other top 5 all press, all attack, all open teams up and apart from Arsenal can all defend, we can't do anything and half the players play like they want rid of him and who can blame them.

Sadly spot on.

 

[Jezpeza]

We dont have shite.

Alli was a signing and while young, he's had good times and not so good. Today he did well.

We have bought what we considered to be alternatives to the kind of players you mentioned. We just havent bought as well as Spurs have.

And I agreed with a post saying there is no argument that we needed signings to do better than we're doing. Spurs didnt make signings and we finished above them. I suggest you read his post again

So you seriously think all those players I listed are really good? That’s parody right? These are mainly players that we openly put up for sale and no one sniffed at all summer? Because teams like Everton can now go out and sign Mina who was apparantly our transfer target?
Of course spurs didn’t need signings they have much better players than we do.

Sorry. But what a load of shite. If I gave you ours and Spurs squad on paper and didn’t tell you which squad belonged to which team, you’d seriously pick theirs overs ours?

Pains me to say it, but I would take a back four off spurs of trip pier vertonghen alderweireld and Rose and transplant it straight into our team no questions asked. In fact even their back up wingbacks, Aurier and Davies are better than anything we have.
I’d take Wanyama Dembele or Dier over Matic. Alli Over Fred. I’d take Eriksen over Pogba for consistency. I’d take Kane over Lukaka. I’d take Moura because he’s a right winger and we don’t have one. I think that’s quite accurate. Pulling on a Man Utd shirt doesn’t give you superpowers.

We just ain’t that good at the moment.

 

[JMack1234]

Mourinho signings-

2016/17
Pogba- Let's be honest, he's done quite well but Mourinho hasn't got nearly the best out of him.

Mhki- Now at Arsenal after a very underwhelming stint here

Bailly- Good first season. Poor 2nd season. Not even in the squad today after his nightmare vs Brighton.

Zlatan- Tick! Did his job

2017/18

Lukaku- Tick! Had a good first season and I think he's quality despite tonight.

Lindelof- Out of his depth, feel quite sorry for him.

Zlatan II- Total wast of time was crocked by then.

Matic- Tick! Done his job.

Alexis- Hasn't shown anything like his Arsenal form yet.

2018/19

Fred- Time will tell

Dalot- Time will tell.

Grant- Meh. He's a 3rd choice GK.

So out of 12 signings. 2 have been a success, 1 has been fine (Pogba) and the others aren't doing it.

 

[Moonwalker]

This wasn't the favoured narrative on here over the summer. Instead it was: Spurs are stagnating and will be left behind by their big-spending rivals.

In vain did I point to the greatly under-rated quality of continuity and continuing to develop the players that we already have. And in vain did I point to Lucas Moura having only arrived in January and looking very good in pre-season.

But instead, as usually happens, the transfer window is treated by many as some kind of race to see who can spend the most and who can bring in the most new players … and this is used as the yard-stick for making predictions about the season to come.

The media have a very conspicuous cynical reason to promulgate the transfer craze, because their own product is a complementary product to football, and they don't want Jim White commenting on an uneventful evening (to name just one part of the whole phenomenon). Inducing fan neuroticism has never been bad for their business.

 

[GlastonSpur]

The media have a very conspicuous cynical reason to promulgate the transfer craze, because their own product is a complementary product to football, and they don't want Jim White commenting on an uneventful evening (to name just one part of the whole phenomenon). Inducing fan neuroticism has never been bad for their business.

True.

 

[Sylar]

So if he knew CB was an issue and a big one why didn't he previously sort this out? Last year we had the second best defence, i know de gea was a massive reason for this. The root cause of our issues is not defence for me, it's the fact there is no pride and confidence in our players. We have no leaders or the leaders we have are not pulling there weight. Our midfield make stupid errors time after time and leave our defenders exposed. Our defenders make mistakes in positioning that you see in Sunday league. The atmosphere is clearly toxic and whether that is Jose or the players, Jose needs to go because you cannot sack 25 players.

Defence was second best last season cos we sacrificed attacking play

The way we played today with high press and tempo is made easier for each game with a cb like toby there
It's easy to say why didn't he sort this out before but what options were available to do so?
This season we had a chance and it was vetoed

 

[mancan92]

Spurs didn't need anyone. They have tons of players and quality all over the field. United don't. That's the difference. Players aren't good enough and that's the owners fault.

Again who's fault is that? How long and how much money was poch given to create this team? Literally 1 season

 

[Sylar]

Mourinho signings-

2016/17
Pogba- Let's be honest, he's done quite well but Mourinho hasn't got nearly the best out of him.

Mhki- Now at Arsenal after a very underwhelming stint here

Bailly- Good first season. Poor 2nd season. Not even in the squad today after his nightmare vs Brighton.

Zlatan- Tick! Did his job

2017/18

Lukaku- Tick! Had a good first season and I think he's quality despite tonight.

Lindelof- Out of his depth, feel quite sorry for him.

Zlatan II- Total wast of time was crocked by then.

Matic- Tick! Done his job.

Alexis- Hasn't shown anything like his Arsenal form yet.

2018/19

Fred- Time will tell

Dalot- Time will tell.

Grant- Meh. He's a 3rd choice GK.

So out of 12 signings. 2 have been a success, 1 has been fine (Pogba) and the others aren't doing it.

For those 12, you counter zlatan twice, both as free anyway
Grant was a free too
Sanchez was a swap

But regardless, if we take out 3 of this season given it's only 3 games played (and only 1 has seen time), that leaves really 8 true signings.

So the problem occurs when we expect every signing to be a success straight away or at all

If that were the case Liverpool wouldn't have a new keeper and city wouldn't have ederson (as an example)

 

[Canagel]

So you seriously think all those players I listed are really good? That’s parody right? These are mainly players that we openly put up for sale and no one sniffed at all summer? Because teams like Everton can now go out and sign Mina who was apparantly our transfer target?
Of course spurs didn’t need signings they have much better players than we do.



Pains me to say it, but I would take a back four off spurs of trip pier vertonghen alderweireld and Rose and transplant it straight into our team no questions asked. In fact even their back up wingbacks, Aurier and Davies are better than anything we have.
I’d take Wanyama Dembele or Dier over Matic. Alli Over Fred. I’d take Eriksen over Pogba for consistency. I’d take Kane over Lukaka. I’d take Moura because he’s a right winger and we don’t have one. I think that’s quite accurate. Pulling on a Man Utd shirt doesn’t give you superpowers.

We just ain’t that good at the moment.

Yes but ask yourself why are all these players looking poor at the same time? It's the manager that isn't getting the best of the squad and not because we have worse players than Tottenham. We were better in the 1st half without really opening them up and creating that many chances. From the 2nd half there was only one team that was in it the game and knew what they were doing. Our squad is operating at 65% potential. A better manager can get extract more.

 

[Castia]

Spurs didn't need anyone. They have tons of players and quality all over the field. United don't. That's the difference. Players aren't good enough and that's the owners fault.

Sorry but I don’t agree with a single word of this. We finished above them last year for a start and the owners have put hundreds of millions into this squad, it’s not their fault that cash has been spunked down the drain on mediocre talent like Lindelof and Bailly, that’s down to the manager/scouts.

If I was the owners I wouldn’t be spending another penny until a proper transfer strategy/system is in place because our current setup is a complete shambles.

 

[deafepl]

I guess not because of quality players, but coaching can make difference. Posh is better at coaching the players but Jose has a better tactical plan.

 

[UDontMessWith24]

Is it? Clubs that print money follow up with signings when they botch a couple of transfers. Big club football 101 it happens ALL THE TIME and has been that way for decades. I don't want to hear a word about Fergie in this case either because one of those is never walking through the doors of any club again, ever. Sure as death.

 

[mancan92]

What about Brighton last week?

Are we going to use the same excuse that we didn't buy a 70m cb

 

[ti vu]

Sorry but I don’t agree with a single word of this. We finished above them last year for a start and the owners have put hundreds of millions into this squad, it’s not their fault that cash has been spunked down the drain on mediocre talent like Lindelof and Bailly, that’s down to the manager/scouts.

If I was the owners I wouldn’t be spending another penny until a proper transfer strategy/system is in place because our current setup is a complete shambles.

There were quite bunch of signing that smells like Woodward influence for his own Galaticos fetish. Did we need Mata, ADM (under LVG)? Even non Galaticos like Fellaini, Shaw, Herrera... we looked like overpay when market is a bit easier to negotiate. And managers ain't responsible for negotiate with agent! Sounding out about our warchest also didn't help!

Last but not least, we did very well in quickly breaking down the leadership in the dressing room installed by SAF, when that squad was known to be underinvested. Of course we would have to spend big afterward when there is very little foundation to build on. Overall we didn't spend that much when for our need when other teams also spend. Look at Everton spending in recent season for example. They're not even anywhere near relevance yet their spending can stake a big percentage on our recent year spending!

 

[JK-27]

We were 19 points behind City last season. And despite them walking the league last season they still improved their squad with Mahrez, an experienced Prem league winner. If you really think we didn't need to improve our squad to compete with them then you're delusional.

Saying Spurs didn't spend so it's proof we didn't have to either is ridiculous. It's irrational logic based on one game. Let's see if at the end of the season they win anything because to date they've won feck all. Do you really think Spurs fans will be happy at the end of the season if again they win nothing. Do you think they'll say they didn't need to spend?

Liverpool finished 4th, and they spent like there's no tomorrow.