The [non] use of Van de Beek - Ole's player?

[spiriticon]

People didn't want us to sign depth though. They wanted better players that would push others into the role of depth.

VDB is that to be fair, which is why people are confused.

Well the problem for him is he isn't going to push Bruno into a squad depth role. He will always be No.2 to Bruno.

So where else can he play? Wing forward? Not really? Defensive mid? Not really.

 

[Brwned]

I get the inclusion of McT, Fred and Mata, but I'm not sure what Dan James has done to warrant starting. Pretty much everyone knew he'd offer very little. Cavani came on and we started to stretch them a bit more. Very frustrating as Chelsea are clearly anxious at the moment and are gunning for clean sheets. Feels like a missed opportunity.

Cavani didn't look fit to me, but as soon as he is I suspect he'll start. James plays because he makes runs which creates space for Bruno / Mata / Pogba and he helps press a bit. Cavani will bring that without Rashford struggling up top on his own. Ultimately we went big on Sancho so we wouldn't have to play James but here we are, when Martial or Rashford are out he's one of the few options that makes the fullback run back rather than close up the pitch. Greenwood for all his quality doesn't help in that regard and Mata always inhibits it, so he's a counterbalance even though he's mostly useless on the ball.

 

[hubbuh]

It doesn't matter whether James starts or not. VdB isn't going to play RWF.

The players that matter to VdB's chances are Bruno, Pogba and Mata

Bruno Fernandes played on the RWF today! He moved over there in the first half and did the same in the second. The combination of Mata and Bruno in the AMF and RWF is clearly very fluid, I don't see why VDB couldn't find a spot in there.

 

[Rude von Mistelroum]

It’s a long season, lots of games to come and probably just acclimatisation to a new league as well. Don’t think it’s anything to be concerned about, reckon he’ll get plenty of minutes across the season.

 

[spiriticon]

Bruno Fernandes played on the RWF today! He moved over there in the first half and did the same in the second. The combination of Mata and Bruno in the AMF and RWF is clearly very fluid, I don't see why VDB couldn't find a spot in there.

Bruno drifts to the right but his best position is not there. To shift Bruno out right to accomodate VdB will be like square pegs in round holes again. And also that means Greenwood gets less playing time.

 

[Superunknown]

Bruno Fernandes played on the RWF today! He moved over there in the first half and did the same in the second. The combination of Mata and Bruno in the AMF and RWF is clearly very fluid, I don't see why VDB couldn't find a spot in there.

Completely agree with this. If Bruno is given a chance/forced to play on the right, I don't see why VDB couldn't be played there. They're not operating as wingers in that position in the typical sense anyway. It isn't the same as putting Scholes in Giggs's position and forcing him to play as a winger.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

I mean he was always going to be a sub when he signed as Fernandez and Pogba were always ahead of him in the pecking order.

I don't know why the fact he isn't playing is surprising.

 

[Brwned]

Diamond? Pogba advanced left with de Beek in midfield? There are ways and means to utilise him and make a cohesive unit, don't you think?

Can't help but be curious if he is only going to get playing time when Pogba or Fernandes aren't featuring.

I think in all scenarios the same applies. McTominay and Fred are higher up the ranks for their performances in a critical run last year, and when they stepped in they did well. So if it was a diamond it would be them two plus Pogba and Fernandes. Matic has worked his way out of the team so he might be next in line deeper, but he's in competition more with Mata, who's done well enough to stay in the team too. It just doesn't seem much of a story to me, he was brought in as a squad option and he's still settling in, while others perform well enough to keep him waiting. Coming from Ajax's playing style to ours was always going to take a bit of adapting because we're never going to play that cohesive, quick, short passing game and he's not a strong individualist. When we get things flowing he'll get integrated and be a useful addition.

 

[hubbuh]

Bruno drifts to the right but his best position is not there. To shift Bruno out right to accomodate VdB will be like square pegs in round holes again. And also that means Greenwood gets less playing time.

It's not to simply accommodate VDB though is it, it's to ensure Dan James doesn't start. Are you seriously suggesting we were better off with Dan James there as opposed to asking Bruno to be flexible in his positioning (which he can do effectively anyway)?

 

[spiriticon]

If VdB plays RWF to a tee then by all means start him there. I don't know if he plays there for Ajax before but hey ho why not? If he's good we won't need Sancho.

 

[MattofManchester]

If we've risked Pogba in a midfield 2, I don't see why we can't do it with Van De Beek. He's very talented and hardworking. Beats me.

 

[Smores]

Well the problem for him is he isn't going to push Bruno into a squad depth role. He will always be No.2 to Bruno.

So where else can he play? Wing forward? Not really? Defensive mid? Not really.

Well the only way you limit him to just a Bruno understudy is if we absolutely have to play two deep defensive midfielders.

If we play any setup with central midfielders he can and should play there. I mean he's played defensive midfield as well but agree he wouldn't be as used to that position.

 

[hubbuh]

Cavani didn't look fit to me, but as soon as he is I suspect he'll start. James plays because he makes runs which creates space for Bruno / Mata / Pogba and he helps press a bit. Cavani will bring that without Rashford struggling up top on his own. Ultimately we went big on Sancho so we wouldn't have to play James but here we are, when Martial or Rashford are out he's one of the few options that makes the fullback run back rather than close up the pitch. Greenwood for all his quality doesn't help in that regard and Mata always inhibits it, so he's a counterbalance even though he's mostly useless on the ball.

That might work if we're playing on the front foot and Pogba is also involved, but playing with 2 CMs in McTominay and Fred who aren't particularly inventive with their passing means that Dan James is isolated on the LW with very little nous or ability to take any sort of advantage. In the end the entire left side becomes easy to neutralise UNLESS Rashford pops out there and cuts inside. Otherwise, you get zilch.

 

[spiriticon]

It's not to simply accommodate VDB though is it, it's to ensure Dan James doesn't start. Are you seriously suggesting we were better off with Dan James there as opposed to asking Bruno to be flexible in his positioning (which he can do effectively anyway)?

Dan James won't play every game. He starts today because Ole wanted pace on the wings clearly. James will fade back to obscurity in the next match

Well the only way you limit him to just a Bruno understudy is if we absolutely have to play two deep defensive midfielders.

If we play any setup with central midfielders he can and should play there. I mean he's played defensive midfield as well but agree he wouldn't be as used to that position.

We generally always play with 2 deep midfielders. It's a choice of Fred, McT, Pogba or Matic

Would VdB fit there? Don't know again.

 

[Brwned]

That might work if we're playing on the front foot and Pogba is also involved, but playing with 2 CMs in McTominay and Fred who aren't particularly inventive with their passing means that Dan James is isolated on the LW with very little nous or ability to take any sort of advantage. In the end the entire left side becomes easy to neutralise UNLESS Rashford pops out there and cuts inside. Otherwise, you get zilch.

James spent most of the time pushing the fullback back and opening up space in that left channel. We didn't have a lot of the ball but when we did, that was his function, and it's to help out the other attackers. Bruno needed that help too because when the space was closed down he struggled to move the ball on, at least this gave him some breathing room. He wasn't there to own the left wing and we know that because almost any time he found himself in space he was ignored. It's just a tactical choice. No-one thinks Dan James is more talented than Greenwood or Pogba.

 

[Feed Me]

He was bought because we don’t have a transfer plan and just make it up as we go along.

 

[hubbuh]

Dan James won't play every game. He starts today because Ole wanted pace on the wings clearly. James will fade back to obscurity in the next match


We generally always play with 2 deep midfielders. It's a choice of Fred, McT, Pogba or Matic

Would VdB fit there? Don't know again.

Pace on the wing but he started Mata out there? Chelsea have been craving clean-sheets and were away to United who they lost twice to in the league last year. To the surprise of no one, they operate with an extremely defensive and compact setup. Dan James is famously ineffective against deep blocks. As I said, I'm not frustrated at the prospect of him starting every game because he obviously won't. Him starting did inhibit us though, and today feels like 2 points dropped and a big missed opportunity in laying down a bit of a marker and leaping frogging a few of our rivals.

 

[masii]

It is about progress, he should get some more minutes to show his possible impact in a long term level. He looked good when he played at least in my view. I think he has deserved more minutes, Ole should take the risk giving him a proper defined role in the squad. Anyway, I am happy that we have some decent options in the midfield. We only can play 11 for one game and 4 CM can not play at the same time. It is not that hard to understand the fact that MCTOM and Fred had proper performances against Newcastle and PSG and It was not an easy decision to drop them but I think VDB could start instead of James today as James did not offer anything plausible. Even though you may say he is not a LW to jump in instead of James changing Bruno’s position could do the trick. Bruno can literally play in many positions.

 

[Ace of Spades]

A non issue that is being overblown. Of course, the drama queens always want to moan about something.

 

[spiriticon]

Pace on the wing but he started Mata out there? Chelsea have been craving clean-sheets and were away to United who they lost twice to in the league last year. To the surprise of no one, they operate with an extremely defensive and compact setup. Dan James is famously ineffective against deep blocks. As I said, I'm not frustrated at the prospect of him starting every game because he obviously won't. Him starting did inhibit us though, and today feels like 2 points dropped and a big missed opportunity in laying down a bit of a marker and leaping frogging a few of our rivals.

Mata was played more centrally as I saw it. Hardly saw him on the wings.

It's a better argument to ask why Mata (instead of James) is starting ahead of VdB but we know Mata is in good form at the moment.

VdB will just have to be patient.

 

[JPRouve]

I feel like he was purchased as a backup to pogba if he doesnt sign a new deal. He is getting 0 gametime.

So he is taking the job that Bruno was supposed to have when we bought him in January?

 

[Nou_Camp99]

A non issue that is being overblown. Of course, the drama queens always want to moan about something.

I guarantee you he's not thinking like that tonight. This is not some unproven kid. He's a Dutch team regular and far too good for this situation. Give it a few more weeks and he will be asking his agent to find him another club next summer I'm certain. Can't see him starting him midweek or vs Arsenal either.

If he's behind Bruno, Mata, Fred, Mctomminay n Pogba which it seems he is then he's made a huge error coming here.

Woodward signing written all over it. Managers don't treat their big money signings like this hardly ever. Something not right.

 

[sillwuka]

He's not playing as he is Bruno's rotation player.

If he doesn't start against Leipzig I'll be worried.

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

So he is taking the job that Bruno was supposed to have when we bought him in January?

I have no idea mate, i'm very confused. i cant see based on our squad, what the need for him was if he's seemingly only able to play as a CAM.

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

He's not playing as he is Bruno's rotation player.

If he doesn't start against Leipzig I'll be worried.

But we already have Mata and pogba who can fill that void, why did we buy another CAM if he cant play anywhere else?

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Fred’s good but McTominay should not be starting ahead of VdB

McT and VdB don't even play in the same position!?!?

 

[JPRouve]

I have no idea mate, i'm very confused. i cant see based on our squad, what the need for him was if he's seemingly only able to play as a CAM.

Pogba has nothing to do with that one or Bruno earlier. VDB was brought as a squad option and nothing else, an improvement on Lingard/Pereira.

 

[ur2cdanger]

It's been 5 matches ffs. It is going to be super long season with the FA cup, premier league, champions league, Carabao cup still to play for.

 

[Suvvernmanc]

Seems like Ole picks the midfielders in this order currently Bruno, McFred, Pogba, dvdb and then Matic. Thats because Mcfred have been superb and served their spots.

My question is why did we sign a player with the calibre of donny to sit on the bench?. He won't like it and he's far too good to sit on the bench. With that being said, i think donny will start against RB Leipzig as McFred cant and wont start every game. Rotation will have to happen and donny will get more game time in good time. I do feel sorry for him though as hes clearly come in to rival Mcfred for a starting place and he should on paper be starting over them.

 

[TheGame]

He’s looked impressive in the few mins we have seen. He should be featuring a lot more and I’m dissapointed he isn’t.

 

[MS4]

Something isn’t right

you don’t pay £40m then not use him. I’ve wondered if this was Ed’s signing and Ole didn’t need/want him.

Of course you do. You pay that money to have good bench players and not pereira or lingard

 

[MrSingh2002]

He should be playing atleast 1 in every 3 games. He's good enough and none of our midfielders including Fernandes have proven they can play game after game being at their best.

 

[Sandikan]

The problem seems to be that his best position is where our best performing player Bruno plays.

If you play him deeper, you probably have the same problem as when we play Pogba there.

Whether he or Pogba can go wide, or we play some sort of diamond, I don't know, as we don't really have the full backs for it.

 

[devilish]

VdB plays in Bruno's position doesn't he?

He's not going to displace Bruno.

He can and he should be used as B2b. McT- Fred provide zero creativity while Fred/McT/Matic-Pogba lack workrate. VDB can provide that balance

 

[Castia]

Of course you do. You pay that money to have good bench players and not pereira or lingard

Sadly I don’t think the squad is in that good of a condition for us to spend most of our budget on a 5th choice midfielder.

 

[Shane88]

He's a long term project. He is gonna be phased in as Pogba's replacement when he heads off to Madrid next summer.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Might as well give up on him. He’s only going downhill due to our coaching, should sell him in Jan whilst we can get 50% of what we paid for him.

 

[passing-wind]

He'll be a useful player whenever Ole is sacked. I think he's the type of player who will excel in a pragmatic setup and also an attack philosophy.

 

[Devil may care]

The thing I don't get is Ole wanted Grealish for double the money, was he going to bench him for James and Mata? As really neither of them have an automatic start as he won't drop Rashford or Bruno.

 

[Lash]

I guarantee you he's not thinking like that tonight. This is not some unproven kid. He's a Dutch team regular and far too good for this situation. Give it a few more weeks and he will be asking his agent to find him another club next summer I'm certain. Can't see him starting him midweek or vs Arsenal either.

If he's behind Bruno, Mata, Fred, Mctomminay n Pogba which it seems he is then he's made a huge error coming here.

Woodward signing written all over it. Managers don't treat their big money signings like this hardly ever. Something not right.

Jesus Christ mate, we've only played 8 games this season. Ziyech at Chelsea is being given exactly the same treatment and no one is complaining, it's just Sky and co making a big deal out of nothing.