I don't want to die on any player
The player(s) that are the hill you are prepared to die on?
- Thread starter Fortitude
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I'm prepared to say that all of them are far better footballers than they are given credit for and that proper coaching, tactics and some basic standards being implemented will show that soon
Current team is Bailly & I still maintain that his best performances were better than Barry Maguire, Lindelof and Jones.
Going forward I can see me liking Garnacho and Martinez. Love an Old Trafford Argie.
Looking back, it was day 1 Ronnie, Anderson, Saha, Tevez, Rio, Evra, Berg & Johnsen.
Going forward I can see me liking Garnacho and Martinez. Love an Old Trafford Argie.
Looking back, it was day 1 Ronnie, Anderson, Saha, Tevez, Rio, Evra, Berg & Johnsen.
Blind was one of our better players over the last decade.
AWB is a better player than Dalot in all aspects.
Rashfords extended period of poor form was a culmination of slower than expected recovery, abysmal coaching/tactics and very poor footballers in the team. He’s a good player we’re lucky to have.
Jose was the most damaging manager we’ve had, during his tenure the club strayed too far from its principles and he instilled an overly selfish culture in the dressing that damaged team performances/created toxic cliques and took years to address.
AWB is a better player than Dalot in all aspects.
Rashfords extended period of poor form was a culmination of slower than expected recovery, abysmal coaching/tactics and very poor footballers in the team. He’s a good player we’re lucky to have.
Jose was the most damaging manager we’ve had, during his tenure the club strayed too far from its principles and he instilled an overly selfish culture in the dressing that damaged team performances/created toxic cliques and took years to address.
Past Players: Juan Sebastian Veron. He was a fantastic player, his attitude at Lazio was top notch and I genuinely believed in a system with Keane as DM, him as a deep lying playmaker and Scholes as a no 10.
Present Players: DDG. I acknowledge his weaknesses but in my opinion he's still a very valid keeper
Present Players: DDG. I acknowledge his weaknesses but in my opinion he's still a very valid keeper
I often think about Veron and how he would have been our best player in any other era other than when we had Keane and Scholes in midfield. Image how good he would have been if he was a few years younger and joined us in 2004 instead.
Totally agree on Veron. Was such a silky passer of the ball. I always thought if we had kept him for one more season we could have worked our how to use him and had a quality player on our hands.
Shame, went to Chelsea who also didn't know how to use him. Never fulfilled his potential in England.
Bit of a weird one, but I always remember afriendly in which David Bellion really impressed me! I was convinced he would be the next big thing and told anyone who would listen about him! Still living that one down.
I believe what went wrong in that deal was a mix of two things
A- The EPL was not yet ready for a player like Veron aka a specialised playmaker who would sit deep and limit himself to just give those sniper like through ball. Which is ironic considering that Scholes became precisely that sort of player
B- SAF's misjudged team politics of the time. Keane was the second most influential person after him, he was growing old, and he needed a partner who could share his work rate rather then Veron and Scholes was being FORCED to moved in a role he hasn't played in a long time. Veron was surrounded by players (Keane, Scholes, Beckham, Giggs, Gaz etc) who didn't see the need for him to be around and quite frankly didn't want him there. The fact that Seba fled his 'beloved' Italy because of the false passport scandal only to learn that no one really ended in prison because of that didn't help.
What a signing though. It was the third date with my then girlfriend (now wife) and I remember spending it all in an internet cafe to follow the news. Thank god she didn't left me for that.
Agreed, silly to sell him. Classy player.
Came here to say this. I don't think we should have sold Smalling when we did. I understand why, he was actually sellable, whereas getting rid of Rojo seemed impossible, and we still somehow have Jones who must just have a forever contract with us.
He wouldn't suit Ten Hag now, but he definitely could have had a role to play under Ole and RR. Average on the ball (but how bad it was seemed to have been blown way out of proportion) but a solid defender, very mobile and very quick for someone of his size - basically the opposite of Maguire and Lindelof. Overall he's not a great player. but defensively he offered a bit more than what we had over the last couple of years.
I'm sure I read at the time that he wanted to go home. Seemed like a lot of clubs were interested in him but he chose a return to Ajax.
Rafael da Silva should have never been sold. Think he'd still be our best right back now.
Don't mind admitting I was blinded by AWB's energy and tackling in his first season. I think it was the obvious effort he was putting in coupled with some of those Matrix style sliding tackles made me subconsciously ignore his limitations. Aah well. I've taken his poster off my bedroom wall and stuck a poster of Dalot up instead. Soz AWB.
Currently it would have to be Fred. I just like the guy and I still think there's a cracking little midfielder in there if used correctly. Something about the guy too, how can you be cross at someone with that smile? How can you not love him?
Currently it would have to be Fred. I just like the guy and I still think there's a cracking little midfielder in there if used correctly. Something about the guy too, how can you be cross at someone with that smile? How can you not love him?
None of them.
I don't care for the majority, there's a reason the managers have been sacked. When you look back, at least 4 of them should never have gotten a sniff of the job.
Players, they've not delivered on a consistent basis and several have downed tools multiple times. There's not one in the last 9 or 10 years that you say, he's been a great player throughout his spell at the club. DDG had a few good seasons but more bad than good I think and he's been about the pick of them. I still think he needs to go and all.
I don't care for the majority, there's a reason the managers have been sacked. When you look back, at least 4 of them should never have gotten a sniff of the job.
Players, they've not delivered on a consistent basis and several have downed tools multiple times. There's not one in the last 9 or 10 years that you say, he's been a great player throughout his spell at the club. DDG had a few good seasons but more bad than good I think and he's been about the pick of them. I still think he needs to go and all.
Januzaj genuinely had the ability to become a world beater, but talent alone is not enough. I don't know what happened there, but he was amazing and people always downplay it just because our season was awful. He was right up there with Sterling and Gnabry, who also had their breakout seasons at the time. He was even better than Gnabry tbh.
I could say the same thing about Alli and Martial. Could've become two of the best players in the world based on natural ability alone.
I’ve been Shaw Out since a few weeks into last season; his crap form and lack of effort yet again made me realise that it was always going to be like this and he was never going to be capable of any sort of consistency.
You’re right though; the people who keep insisting that he’s only been good for half a season in his time with us are talking absolute nonsense.
I’m not 100% in on Sancho; there are times when he just doesn’t look arsed. Bruno though; he can be terribly frustrating, but the fact that he always puts the effort in absolves him of a lot of criticism.
I stopped getting giddy about youngsters years ago. There have been too many Januzajs. Sammy McIlroy when I was 13 was probably the last
Agree re. both. In Rooney’s defence, I’m pretty certain that being brought back early from injury so often (by England as much as United) did him no good at all. Moyes doing it once too often really finished him off.
Nani is my last one. Great player who was severely underrated by fans.
Shaw is a very good example where fans tend to turn a blind eye to his performances. He was as bad as Maguire last season and was eventually dropped for Telles. His injury record means he’s not reliable either.
Let’s not forget ten Hag stated in pre-season he felt United’s weak area last season was the left side of defence. Whilst most fans, including myself, were begging for central midfielders ten Hag decided to buy a new LB and LCB.
Let’s not forget ten Hag stated in pre-season he felt United’s weak area last season was the left side of defence. Whilst most fans, including myself, were begging for central midfielders ten Hag decided to buy a new LB and LCB.
Mata's timing when joining was very unfortunate. During his supposedly peak age, he played with Rooney who was more like a midfielder than number 9, the RvP he played with had lost his mojo and Falcao as well, Martial was okay but not a target man and was very young. If Ibra joined earlier and the manager played Mata as an AM with Carrick still there shielding the back four, no doubt in my mind he would have made a lot more assists and bigger impact overall. His years as an inside right winger (?) were wasteful although he did score Juanfield volley from that position.
Donny. In the right set up he can be incredible.
Fred and McTominay aren't bad players, there's just one too many of them. I think Fred is arguably a slightly better footballer but we don't really have a use for him in the way we want to play. McT as backup DM / impact sub battering ram no.8 is a fine squad player, but we can't have 2 limited, somewhat mismatched in style players in CM.
For me McT would get the nod as I think his height and physicality are more useful to a team full of techno-midgets like Martinez than Fred who is too bullyable by far at DM.
I wouldn't say there's any hill I'm willing to die on though. Rashford would be the closest as I think a couple of years ago he was our most important player, even more so than Bruno. If he can recapture that form then he probably still would be with people like Eriksen, Bruno, (De Jong?), Martinez feeding him from midfield and defence. Not world class by any means but incredibly effective and hard to defend against.
For me McT would get the nod as I think his height and physicality are more useful to a team full of techno-midgets like Martinez than Fred who is too bullyable by far at DM.
I wouldn't say there's any hill I'm willing to die on though. Rashford would be the closest as I think a couple of years ago he was our most important player, even more so than Bruno. If he can recapture that form then he probably still would be with people like Eriksen, Bruno, (De Jong?), Martinez feeding him from midfield and defence. Not world class by any means but incredibly effective and hard to defend against.
I'd never die on a hill for a player, but in the current squad I think there's a debate going on between whether it's Fred or McTominay holding us back. I'm not sure which, personally, but physically and mentally I'd rather have McTominay in the side, even with his poorer technique, and I sort of wonder if there's a few sides that wouldn't mind having McTominay. I don't think he'll ever do well in a side that has 70% possession but then, neither would Fred, who is absolutely horrendous going forward.
I rate a lot of them, but sadly, if any represent a hill I am willing to die on then it is the opposite way in that it is players that I am convinced are not good enough despite the continuous or intermittent praise they get. Generally, I’d give it up for the players I rate and there are many, but once I’ve assessed you and I think you’re shit/not good enough, then that is the hill I’d die on. I decided fairly early that I wasn’t having Axel, Scott, Williams or Bruno - for different reasons, and nothing since then has changed my mind, no nights in Paris, no occasional MOTM, no presentation of numbers. Those are hills I’d die on, in the sort of reverse meaning of this thread!
As for the positive, it is what it is. Like, I was a big fan of Shaw, but not a hill to die on. He’s capable of being very good, and was almost Maldini level a couple of seasons ago, but he doesn’t do it often enough.
As for the positive, it is what it is. Like, I was a big fan of Shaw, but not a hill to die on. He’s capable of being very good, and was almost Maldini level a couple of seasons ago, but he doesn’t do it often enough.
I obviously love Rashy since his first goal, he's our own and all but he used to be a down to earth hard working player. Nowadays he jogs about too much and only breaks sweat when he's given space to attack. I hate it when players lose their humbleness once they get under the spotlight.
In recent years Rashford, when he was getting criticism i always had his back it did waver last year towards the end of Rangnick's reign though.
in the past Veron who i thought as the absolute best albeit somewhat flawed genius
in the past Veron who i thought as the absolute best albeit somewhat flawed genius
Won't "die for" any or them obviously, but those I had soft spots for and really wanted to see succeed despite reservations from a lot of people -
Past:
Saha
Ole
Ronaldo (first stint)
Anderson
Nani
Tevez
Current:
Martial - just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!
Hannibal
Amad
Shaw used to be one, but I honestly have no time for him now.
What can I say? I love supporting the little guy.
I.e. Those who joined as promising youngsters or those I deem incredibly capable but unfortunate
Past:
Saha
Ole
Ronaldo (first stint)
Anderson
Nani
Tevez
Current:
Martial - just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!
Hannibal
Amad
Shaw used to be one, but I honestly have no time for him now.
What can I say? I love supporting the little guy.
I.e. Those who joined as promising youngsters or those I deem incredibly capable but unfortunate
I so hope this turns out to be true, but I have huge doubts about Rashford's footballing brain and also feel he is very limited. Hope he proves me wrong.
Martial seems all set to unleash his true self and Sancho has great potential. Hope we get another young forward to keep Rashford and Martial on their toes. Someone like Ansu Fati would be great to have.
Rashford, he's the guy. His movement has been ignored for years now.
I don't think there are many players who left that I was truly gutted about, but plenty who went for the wrong reasons, or who we didn't give a chance to succeed/contribute.
Rafael shouldn't have gone, him leaving was typical of LVG's habit of making bizarre decisions and being too stubborn to change his mind. Players like Smalling, Fellaini and, to a lesser extent, James were great options to have in the squad, just not in the starting line-up. All of them brought something we've missed at various points after getting rid. Mata and Kagawa I think we wasted. I'm certain Kagawa was signed to be a #10 behind a main striker, and when we didn't sell Rooney and had the chance to sign Van Persie there simply wasn't room for him to get a run of games in his best position. Mata very similar, except that came at a time when Rooney and Van Persie were on the decline rather than winning us titles, so it was more frustrating.
Rafael shouldn't have gone, him leaving was typical of LVG's habit of making bizarre decisions and being too stubborn to change his mind. Players like Smalling, Fellaini and, to a lesser extent, James were great options to have in the squad, just not in the starting line-up. All of them brought something we've missed at various points after getting rid. Mata and Kagawa I think we wasted. I'm certain Kagawa was signed to be a #10 behind a main striker, and when we didn't sell Rooney and had the chance to sign Van Persie there simply wasn't room for him to get a run of games in his best position. Mata very similar, except that came at a time when Rooney and Van Persie were on the decline rather than winning us titles, so it was more frustrating.
Both mctominay and Fred for me, I feel mctominay still needs more growing (understanding the game) and Fred needs the same. I feel both have the capacity to change a game on their day.
I would’ve bet my house that Obertan was going to be a world class winger. He was comfortable with either foot, on either flank. Low centre of gravity, a tidy dribbler, used to get past his marker with ease.
Oh what could have been.
Oh what could have been.
I still don't think Maguire is as bad as most people make him out to be. He had a woeful season last year in a woeful side, but he wasn't one of our worst performers in our first two matches this season. (Admittedly this is not a high bar)
Essentially, I still think it's pretty apparent that some people look into every goal with the mindset that Maguire must somehow be to blame for it and therefore he sometimes gets called out for "mistakes" that really weren't his fault. The first Brighton goal is a prime example of this; people were having a pop at Maguire for playing Welbeck onside when in reality it was just a well-timed run which Licha should've tracked better. (This isn't to say Licha was solely, or even primarily, to blame for that goal.) Ironically, if you were making the case for Maguire being at fault for the second goal I'd have been far more sympathetic, but not as many people were. (Which I guess one could argue somewhat undermines my argument!)
With all that said, however, he should not get back into the side given how well Varane and Licha performed against Liverpool.
Essentially, I still think it's pretty apparent that some people look into every goal with the mindset that Maguire must somehow be to blame for it and therefore he sometimes gets called out for "mistakes" that really weren't his fault. The first Brighton goal is a prime example of this; people were having a pop at Maguire for playing Welbeck onside when in reality it was just a well-timed run which Licha should've tracked better. (This isn't to say Licha was solely, or even primarily, to blame for that goal.) Ironically, if you were making the case for Maguire being at fault for the second goal I'd have been far more sympathetic, but not as many people were. (Which I guess one could argue somewhat undermines my argument!)
With all that said, however, he should not get back into the side given how well Varane and Licha performed against Liverpool.
I was convinced that Kagawa would solve all of our problems if we just gave him a good run of games in the #10 position...
Ozil used to be that guy during his Arsenal days when people said he wasn't world class and not a big game player. Before that I remember I used to think Fletcher was a potentially great player, before the 08-09 season, that wasn't a popular opinion. Khedira was someone else who it seemed only I rated amongst fans, though plenty of managers of big teams rated him highly as well.
Nowadays I would probably have to say Sancho and Fred. Both have been getting a lot of flak but I think both would be great if played in the right system. Fred might not be as a starter but I think he's a good player to have on the team. Martial is back and forth, I thought he had the talent to be a Balon d'OR winner but just needed a bit more motivation.
Nowadays I would probably have to say Sancho and Fred. Both have been getting a lot of flak but I think both would be great if played in the right system. Fred might not be as a starter but I think he's a good player to have on the team. Martial is back and forth, I thought he had the talent to be a Balon d'OR winner but just needed a bit more motivation.
Fellaini. 
Daley Blind for me - I thought he had everything needed to be a world class cb or 6 for us and he was brilliant during our Europa League run. Sadly unfancied by Mourinho but I think he would have been brilliant in this team now.
Current one - Wan Bissaka, I think he's the best defensive fullback I've seen at United on his day with the exception of maybe Irwin. I thought his first two seasons were great and going forward he was hampered by the menagerie of non-specialist players we were trying to get to play on the right wing. I think Ten Hag should give him a chance
Current one - Wan Bissaka, I think he's the best defensive fullback I've seen at United on his day with the exception of maybe Irwin. I thought his first two seasons were great and going forward he was hampered by the menagerie of non-specialist players we were trying to get to play on the right wing. I think Ten Hag should give him a chance
Past players:
Nani. He wasn't as inconsistent as people said. But he was a confidence player. And his confidence was influenced quite a lot by whether he was played in his favourite position (RW) or not. On his day he was one of the best wide attackers in the world.
Chicharito should have stayed.
Nani. He wasn't as inconsistent as people said. But he was a confidence player. And his confidence was influenced quite a lot by whether he was played in his favourite position (RW) or not. On his day he was one of the best wide attackers in the world.
Chicharito should have stayed.
Going to agree with the Rafael comments here. Great attitude, only let down by getting injured at the wrong time constantly. He was excellent in the 12/13(?) season when he got a run of games.
Maguire
I actually agree with this one even from a Manchester United perspective.Fellaini.
Besides the godawful first season, Fellaini was actually quite a useful utility player for us. Nothing spectacular and I would never have bought him but I do think he is judged too harshly.