The Rashford and Martial predicament

[DWelbz19]

Madrid also have two of the best fullbacks in world football.

They're actually allowed past their half way line too. Works wonders for a team trying to attack without ending up playing one dimensional football.

 

[Green_Red]

There's always a case to be made that Martial already proved himself capable against Real in pre-season. Maybe Jose was giving Lingard and Rashford an opportunity to do the same? At the end of the day winning the super cup is no better than Liverpool winning the Asian Premier League shite or us winning the charity shield. It's just a meaningless pre-season game.

 

[The red panther]

Imo Martial should be loaned out

 

[rocks13]

If our manager can't get anything out of the attacking players we have would it not be his responsibility to replace them.

 

[Nanotron]

Park was no better or worse than Lingard

You got one of those right

 

[Rozay]

Contrary to the OP, I think both are excellent crossers, at least in their own way. Rashford is a brilliant crosser in the conventional way, good whipped crosses at pace, while Martial is more of a good long/medium passer. When he cuts in from the left, he plays some excellent chipped passes and through balls. He's actually very creative in general I think.

 

[meninred]

I would prefer if he can buy one pacy wing player and make them both strikers so we have three strikers in total.

 

[shabadu84]

Contrary to the OP, I think both are excellent crossers, at least in their own way. Rashford is a brilliant crosser in the conventional way, good whipped crosses at pace, while Martial is more of a good long/medium passer. When he cuts in from the left, he plays some excellent chipped passes and through balls. He's actually very creative in general I think.

The problem with that in our current set-up is that crossing in is usually their 2nd or 3rd option, not something they do instinctively, and I'm not sure that will work with Lukaku. So something needs to change, which is entirely possible too.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

They're actually allowed past their half way line too. Works wonders for a team trying to attack without ending up playing one dimensional football.

You say that as though our fullbacks aren't allowed to attack. Yet Valencia has been involved in almost all our best attacking football this pre-season (and last season).

The opposite side is a different story but that's surely more down to personnel than tactics. If Luke Shaw can somehow get a run in the team I'm sure you're see both our fullbacks consistently involved in the final third.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

I just can't see Martial getting a good run in this team unfortunately. I genuinely think this will be his last season here if Jose stays in charge. Be a real shame but managers have their favourites and ones they don't particularly like, and it seems Martial is in the latter.

 

[The red panther]

can't we offer Martial + 80m for Dembele, Dortmund might be tempted and we would solve 2 problems at once.

 

[fergies coat]

Park was no better or worse than Lingard

Park was better Lingard. It's not even close. Lingard offers nothing. What amazes me is how you have been promoted with statements like that.

 

[AXVnee7]

Talk of selling Martial? Are we going to sell Martial now, this late in the window? Nope. That means Martial has a whole season before we even think about selling him. So talk of getting rid of him is very premature to say the least. A lot can change between now and next summer.

He was much more aggressive in pre-season, and I think Jose made a mistake in starting Lingard yesterday which he recitifed by bringing on Rashford. I actually could see our front 3 becoming Lukaku, Rashford and Martial. Lukaku is definitely our no.9, and I'm fairly confident Rashford will nail down a spot on the wing. He was very good yesterday and in flashes managed to wreak havoc to Carvajal's integrity. On the other hand I'm not sure Mhkitaryan or Lingard are consistent enough. Martial just needs to take his opportunities as and when they arise and eventually Mourinho will be forced to play him even if that means shunting Rashford to the right, or even establishing Martial himself on the right.

The BT pundits were saying yesterday that we lacked pace, and that certainly rang true. Bringing on Rashford helped to alleviate the problem and it showed. Lingard has pace but not the ability, whilst Martial has both. A front 3 of Rashford, Lukaku and Martial would be deadly. I would have Mkhi as a floating No.10 in behind them.

 

[sammsky1]

Imo Martial should be loaned out

I think it's Rashford that needs to be loaned out

 

[sammsky1]

Park was no better or worse than Lingard

Then you don't know too much about what you're talking about!

 

[Oneunited26]

Is it the Rashford and Martial predicament? or the Jose Mourinho tactics? I see it has the latter, who is like some paranoid madman that won't leave the front doorstep. That is how we attack teams by being has cautious has possible, with lingard has terrifying to teams has a paper bag floating down the road

 

[The red panther]

I think it's Rashford that needs to be loaned out

Rashford looks more accomplished and able to provide a threat than Martial.

 

[sammsky1]

Rashford looks more accomplished and able to provide a threat than Martial.

It would be for his and our better long term prospects if he played at CF every week imo

 

[gza the genius]

I'd like to see us get a proper left winger and go two up top whether in a 352 or 442. Both won't be starting obviously but I think either one of them could work well up top with Lukaku.

 

[The red panther]

It would be for his and our better long term prospects if he played at CF every week imo

Unless we start playing with 2 upfront I don't see the point. Lukaku is 24, he will be our main striker for the Next 5 years surely. I think Rashford needs to develop himself further as a threat coming from the wing.

 

[shamans]

Marital is always a forward to me. Just don't see him as a winger at all. Like someone already mentioned he's way too predictable there.

 

[sammsky1]

Unless we start playing with 2 upfront I don't see the point. Lukaku is 24, he will be our main striker for the Next 5 years surely. I think Rashford needs to develop himself further as a threat coming from the wing.

Fair point and makes sense. I'm just trying to workout how he can develop his finishing to eradicate misses like last night.

Also I think Martial is closer to making the breakthrough: Rashford is still raw and unsophisticated in many areas due to his age and lack of experience.

Don't misunderstand me, I admire Rashford as a young player and as a homegrown talent it's essential that he makes it. But he's just not ready yet to deliver consistently to the standards required and it will cost us.

 

[sammsky1]

Marital is always a forward to me. Just don't see him as a winger at all. Like someone already mentioned he's way too predictable there.

But he can be a wide foreward like a young Henry, Messi or Ronaldo. Doesn't have to be pure CF.

 

[hungrywing]

I'd like to see us get a proper left winger and go two up top whether in a 352 or 442. Both won't be starting obviously but I think either one of them could work well up top with Lukaku.

Even without a new LW I really wish we'd try 442 in the league, especially against the weaker teams.

--------Back five--------
Mikhi-Matic-Pogba-Martial
------Rash--Lukaku------

 

[Silas]

Rashford looks more accomplished and able to provide a threat than Martial.

No he doesn't. He's far too reliant on his pace and isn't cool under pressure as seen by his missed chance yesterday. Against defenders that he can't just run around, he really isn't all that effective, especially on the wings.

 

[Oneunited26]

But he can be a wide foreward like a young Henry, Messi or Ronaldo. Doesn't have to be pure CF.

Mourinho seems he just does not have those tactics in his locker that forwards can do many things. Does he even train the team? to be better going forward, that is where I worry where we will look much the same from last season

 

[The red panther]

No he doesn't. He's far too reliant on his pace and isn't cool under pressure as seen by his missed chance yesterday. Against defenders that he can't just run around, he really isn't all that effective, especially on the wings.

I agree but I can say the same about Martial to be honest.

From the 2 atm I absolutley prefer Rashford.

 

[Still ill]

can't we offer Martial + 80m for Dembele, Dortmund might be tempted and we would solve 2 problems at once.

What 2 problems would they be?

 

[Minimalist]

To be honest I've no idea. I just know Martial is insanely talented and Rashford has good potential.

Mourinho's problem. I just hope Martial isn't another massive talent he gets rid of only to look daft later.

 

[Silas]

I agree but I can say the same about Martial to be honest.

From the 2 atm I absolutley prefer Rashford.

Martial's style of play is far more reliant on his dribbling abilities, so I'd say he's harder to deal with when in form. Under pressure he's more reliable as well (look at his FA cup goal against West Ham for instance), but he's slightly older and more experienced to be fair.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that. Rashford doesn't look like starting material to me.

 

[The red panther]

What 2 problems would they be?

Getting in a proper good winger and not knowing what to do with Martial

 

[I Believe]

Actually I think there is another problem how does Lukaku fit in with either Rashford or Martial?

All three players want to be and indeed tend to have the 'lone-striker' mentality, they do not naturally look for a partner who they can link with, its not in their game, all three get the ball, go head down and aim to go at the opposition goal like an Exocet missile! OK maybe that's overdoing it, but can you see any of these three playing together in partnerships like York and Cole, Ole Gunner and Teddy Sherringham?

Alright I know people will say but we are not playing 442 formation anymore, fine, but we still need partnerships, understandings up front, maybe all three need to try to link up, like messer's; Neymar, Suarez and Messi? There has to be some 'bonding' or 'singing from the same hymn-sheet' between our front players, we saw how bad it can get last night, where with just some faint semblance of partnership, we could have scored at least three goals!

 

[Still ill]

I don't think Dembelé is a 'winger' any more than Martial is and I, like many others on here, don't think selling him is a solution to the Martial conundrum.

 

[Hamadovich86]

Its a pivotal year for Martial, hes going to be 22 in December and I have the expectation that he should show his worth starting this season. Rashford will turn 20 in late October which means that I dont expect him to fully hit his stride just yet.

People have to remember that these kids just had two seasons playing at United. We do rely on them heavily as in I expect at least one of them to start every other game which means they need to start producing the goods if we are impatient about getting results immediately.

I dont think we should let go of either of them just yet but if it will happen mostly likely it will be Martial because Rashford is a home grown boy and is younger. In terms of ability I actually think they're pretty close I cant definitively say that one is better than the other at the moment. They're both inconsistent because they're young. Rashford's decision making has to improve whereas Martial needs to become stronger mentally. Both of these qualities can be worked on, their other attributes are fantastic and they have a lot of potential that we could miss out on if we let go of either of them.

 

[Home&Away]

It's absolutely mental that these two haven't played more than a game together as central strikers in partnership.

Martial - Rashford

Upfront like that the strikers have the capability to drift wider when not having the ball.

Doesn't matter much since we just bought lukaku who is more the traditional type of striker José works with; but it's abysmal that this has hardly been tried out.

 

[goin4glory]

If I was Martial, I'd be busting a gut to perform as the Manager wants. Lad is at an elite club and hopefully he's not a cry baby who'd look to leave and realises how lucky he is.

Was Lukaku a crybaby when he left Chelsea? Or KDB?

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

Martial would be one of the first names on my team sheet.
He is one of the very few players who at least puts a little bit of fear into our opponents.
We have been such a toothless team over the last years that I am wondering how we can afford to bench of the few dangerous players we have.

 

[mattsville]

Martial is a super talent but he lacks confidence and decision making, he has had some good moments in pre-season, setting up Jesse against madrid and Mata against sampdoria, but that needs to be the norm, he can regularly be just a frustrating watch making really basic bad decisions, he has everything, speed, balance, power, skill, finishing it's like he just needs to let it flow, you are just waiting on it to click, if it does, what a fecking player, but he is at a stage where it is hard to tell if it will. Rashford is no surprise, in fact he has done better than I expected, he has pace and drive but he lacks composure and technique around the box, that has always been the case, he is over hyped too soon because he is English, James Wilson was miles ahead of him in terms of composure and finishing and with the pace but he got injuries. He is now starting to display that powerful kicking technique to his game from open play, corners and freekicks so that is a new dimension, he has been around Zlatan for a season and getting great coaching and his attitude is very focused so he will get better but in terms of producing week in week out while chasing major honours next season there will be more frustration with him until he finds his feet.

 

[Lentwood]

I love watching Martial but what is his actual output?

I think we are guilty sometimes of being lured in by the moments of magic and his ability to glide past defenders

It all means nothing if he then runs down a blind alley or fails to get a decent shot/cross in

 

[Red_toad]

Was Lukaku a crybaby when he left Chelsea? Or KDB?

Are Chelsea Manchester United? Neither were getting much game time and had superior players ahead of them. Martial certainly doesn't fall into that catagory.

Can't fathom why our fans, some of whom seem to care more about 1 player than the entire team, would prefer him to leave than give it a good go here?