I wish we could find out once and for all if Martial is a winger or a striker. Either way, I'd rather have him in the XI than Rashford because of his maturity in front of goal. That miss from Rashford last night would have been an equaliser 99 times out of 100 if it were Martial. I'm worried that if we sign an out and out winger, these 2 won't get a look in and we'll just see their development become seriously stunted.
The Rashford and Martial predicament
- Thread starter TheReligion
- Start date
Or he could see through the bullshit like KDB did and leave for a place where he could be given an actual fighting chance.
Martial should start on the left imo. Let's hope Jose plays him on Sunday.
It was strange that he didnt come on (or any other attacking player) when we were looking for that one goal
It was strange that he didnt come on (or any other attacking player) when we were looking for that one goal
His bottom level is better than whatever Lingard has to offer, so,no, I'm not having this, even though I see where you're coming from.
I think there is some truth in this, certainly last season, but Jose has mentioned Martial's improved attitude in training so I'm hopeful he'll get chances this term. Ideally he should be nailing down that starting position on the left, with Rashford able to replace him in the second half to terrorise the opposition's tiring left back.
Mkhi and Mata can do jobs as wide forwards and given our lack of viable wing options we'll need them to do so, but ideally we'd have them competing for the 10 with a new winger (Perisic?) on the right. Rashford I'd prefer filling in across the front line when needed (starting in a 352 for example) but primarily coming from the bench to beast tiring defenders, while Lingard should only be a squad option.
Excuse me mate, shouldn't one of the hallmark of a great manager be playing his best players to their strength in order to benefit the team?
People should just let it go and make peace with this; we have a defensive manager and that in itself is no surprise or a bad thing.
He made his great reputation with stifling half decent opposition and his natural default is defensive e.g Azspilicueta vs Luiz among many example.
By all account he stifled Mikels attacking qualities and the player never lived to his potential.
If I was a young attacking player I won't want to play under Jose, 100× I had play under Pep. We all know this deep down in our heart, so let's not come here and try to act like "top reds".
Lets accept our manager for his qualities and also accept his flaws, he is not the best with young players.
He's not playing as a striker while Lukaku is fit. He doesn't cross well either, so unless we get a proper right winger, he shouldn't play on the left.
I hope we stop forcing this wing play tactic and let the lads play up front off Lukaku. Otherwise I fear we will hamper their development.
Yea but that can be taken care of tactically particularly as we don't have a left-back that's consistently good going forward, so may as well instruct a Darmian or Tuanzebe to have Martial's back (or even Rashford's), and give the left sided attacker some free reign to be creative and take risk.
I also seemed to understand last season that Mou wants one his left backs to stay behind with the centre backs, so with Valencia better at timing his runs anyways, I don't see why we don't already do that.
It's not like every good team has both their wingers deployed as duplicate wing-backs, there is more than one way to skin a cat (or something...) Mou needs to be flexible on this matter if he wants to make the best with this squad of players.
What they both need is to be replaced with upgraded versions, players who can do the job being asked of these two. Then they need to develop thier games and become better than those players.
We don't have anyone in our squad to do that on the left, on the right we have Lingard (inferior to Rashford already), Miki (inconsistent and not a wide player), Mata (he's a 10 shoved out wide to accommodate Rooney originally).
Perisic would have been OK in that sense, so would Mahrez. They're not Bale and Greizmann, but they'd do a good job, take the pressure off the young lads, let them develop and give our game some width.
We don't have anyone in our squad to do that on the left, on the right we have Lingard (inferior to Rashford already), Miki (inconsistent and not a wide player), Mata (he's a 10 shoved out wide to accommodate Rooney originally).
Perisic would have been OK in that sense, so would Mahrez. They're not Bale and Greizmann, but they'd do a good job, take the pressure off the young lads, let them develop and give our game some width.
I think we need players in those positions who can do both, otherwise we become predictable like we are now.
Defending against Manchester United is easy. You're RB doesn't need to worry about any threat from the left, your centre backs have a 2 v 1 in the box so will likely win any crosses, your back 4 can stay nice and tight because Miki and Mata will cut inside and if Valencia is trying to cross, get out to him and he'll bounce the cross off you half the time.
A front three of Martial, Lukaku and Rashford would be good to see in certain games. The more comfortable home games, I would imagine. Rashford isn't as effective outwide, but his crossing has come a long way, and he's got the pace to get in behind and come in more central when needed. Martial is at his best darting in with the ball from the left. We don't have anyone else who can really do that, yet it looks like he's still going to be behind Lingard.
I like Lingard, but I don't see what a front three including both Mkhitaryan and Lingard offers. It doesn't have any pace or any major threat. Lingard works hard, but I don't think he is particularly effective defensively. I've never been sold on Mkhitaryan either. Capable of moments of brilliance, but overall I don't really see it. I prefer Mata in the wide playmaker role. Martial seems to get slated for his work rate, but I often think his tracking back is very good, and he offers something unique.
Our first choice attack really needs to include one of Rashford or Martial as a starter. They are the two players who will really cause problems with their pace and their ability to beat defenders.
I like Lingard, but I don't see what a front three including both Mkhitaryan and Lingard offers. It doesn't have any pace or any major threat. Lingard works hard, but I don't think he is particularly effective defensively. I've never been sold on Mkhitaryan either. Capable of moments of brilliance, but overall I don't really see it. I prefer Mata in the wide playmaker role. Martial seems to get slated for his work rate, but I often think his tracking back is very good, and he offers something unique.
Our first choice attack really needs to include one of Rashford or Martial as a starter. They are the two players who will really cause problems with their pace and their ability to beat defenders.
Park was no better or worse than Lingard
They should both fight each other for the LWF spot and it'll push both of them on to great things I'm sure.
Putting Lingard in their way is a fecking abomination though.
Putting Lingard in their way is a fecking abomination though.
Park was miles better than Lingard.
He spent half the summer trying to get a left winger; Lingard played more than him in pre-season and started against Real Madrid; Rashford is also ahead of him at LW; he didn't even get a chance with 10 minutes to go, a goal down.
There is no Martial predicament. Unless a miracle happens, or some serious injury, he has no future here under Mourinho.
In football terms yeah it kinda is 'the end of the world' when you see inferior player getting picked and we drop points.
I don't get why Mourinho needs every man in the team to be a work horse, in fact most of the top players in the world aren't yet we pick players like Lingard and chase others like Perisic because they can put a shift in? Seems really small time, something you'd expect big Sam to do playing away at a top 4 club.
What's wrong with playing a 4-3-3 with Rashford Lukaku and Martial upftont? We've got players in the team that will cover the defence and run all day (all 3 of our midfielders honestly) while having high energy full backs as well...so strange that a better player doesn't get picked simply because he won't drop into a full back position when we don't have the ball, no other elite club does it.
I wouldn't mind either if Martial was lazy as feck so he didn't get picked but truth is he isn't, he's regularly dropping back and helping his left back anyway.
They want to play upfront. We should let them play upfront.
The feck you on about?
He's one player, a young prospect that has fluctuating form at that. Our success does not depend solely on Martial ffs. He'll get minutes the moaning every time he doesn't start a game is ridiculous and im sure it'll continue all this season.
God I hate this sort of post. If you have nothing to say, say nothing. This condescending dismissal of other posters is the worst.
He's saying, quite clearly, that Mourinho is a defensive manager who's not the best at nurturing young players. Hardly a revolutionary viewpoint, it's been said about him for a decade now but it's not some sneer-worthy nonsense either.
God I hate these posts! I did have something to say... I asked a question...
The view point of Jose being defensive is fine. Its wrong in my opinion but whatever. However, that has nothing to do with my original reply regarding this post:
You can't expect the current United team to be able to setup and perform like Madrid. He's not setting up like that because he's some super defensive coach. He's setting up like that because he's trying to get the best out of the players he currently has.
Jose teams have always been strong defensive, but they've also had attacking flair and scored goals.
I don't see why everyone has Martial starting above Rashford, when so far under Jose Rashford has been above him in the pecking order and rightly so.
No double standard. Rashford's attitude is clearly first class. Martial is probably more naturally talented but his head/heart is not in the right place.
I much prefer Martial on the left than Rashford if I'm honest. But yes, clearly Jose prefers Rashford and Lingard over Martial. For some reason, Martial does seem to have to play by a different set of rules compared to those two.
Martial wide left, Rashford wide right, Lukaku down the middle, 4-3-3. That should be our default attacking set up.
Both need to score more though.
Both need to score more though.
Rashford on the right hasn't really worked in the past, but it must be worth a shot I agree.
He revived his goalscoring form in spring away at Sunderland playing to the right of Ibra. He also performed there very well against City on tour. His crossing is pretty sharp on the run, playing him wide left he can't use it as he has to check back. I think he'd be much better wide right.
Not this again.
He seemed to ok in his first season. Actually he and Rashford were much better in that season. What changed? José. There is nothing malicious about it, José just doesn't fancy Martial or knows how to manage him imo. I also fear that Rashford will turn to a work horse Bellion of care is not taken. He's not a wide player.
How can you be taken seriously when you type things like that? Rashford will not turn into a workhorse Bellion.
Last nights came proved, that our right sided winger doesn't have to be able to cross. Valencia will do so constantly.
Rashfords attempts at crossing were decent at best..
Play mata on the left.
Rashfords attempts at crossing were decent at best..
Play mata on the left.
Of course he won't. My point is I don't want him to be over reliant on his physicality and pace in the long run.
Rashford a work horse Bellion
I just wish we could get a system where Martial/Rashford and Lukaku were our front three.
JM wont trust Martial as a RWB and rightly so. Unless you mean him up beside lakaku, eg a LF?
Would have preferred Martial to come on yesterday instead of Rashford - Martial is cooler under pressure and would put that 1v1 away with aplomb.
Seriously, the idea of Lingard (who I like) starting ahead of Martial against RM is such a headfeck of a decision, I can't really comprehend it. He contributed the square root of feckall to the proceedings. Seriously, my Arsenal friends are watching this supremely talented lad sit it out on the bench with tears in their eyes and I can't blame them, he would tear it up under Wenger's system.
What a fecking waste
Seriously, the idea of Lingard (who I like) starting ahead of Martial against RM is such a headfeck of a decision, I can't really comprehend it. He contributed the square root of feckall to the proceedings. Seriously, my Arsenal friends are watching this supremely talented lad sit it out on the bench with tears in their eyes and I can't blame them, he would tear it up under Wenger's system.
What a fecking waste
There's only so long any manager who isn't winning every game, can get away with picking Lingard ahead of either of these two.
I mean, I thought Rashford was quite poor when he came on yesterday, but even in spite of that, he managed to be an absolutely massive improvement on Lingard, because you actually notice Rashford is on the pitch, doing his job...and the opposition actually have to account for that. It's the same with Martial. You notice them constantly having an effect on the game.
With Lingard, most of the time he is busy trying to do something that doesn't need doing, and that he isn't good enough to do anyway, so the opposition can literally just ignore him, and the game as a whole ignores him. You notice him in maybe two or three instances, usually cropping up somewhere he shouldn't be, to do something that has no effect on anything. Last night his main contribution was getting booked fouling someone on the opposite side of the pitch to where he should have been.
I mean, I thought Rashford was quite poor when he came on yesterday, but even in spite of that, he managed to be an absolutely massive improvement on Lingard, because you actually notice Rashford is on the pitch, doing his job...and the opposition actually have to account for that. It's the same with Martial. You notice them constantly having an effect on the game.
With Lingard, most of the time he is busy trying to do something that doesn't need doing, and that he isn't good enough to do anyway, so the opposition can literally just ignore him, and the game as a whole ignores him. You notice him in maybe two or three instances, usually cropping up somewhere he shouldn't be, to do something that has no effect on anything. Last night his main contribution was getting booked fouling someone on the opposite side of the pitch to where he should have been.
Yeah, pretty much this. The upside of Lingard is that it's hard to remember any mistakes of his as he barely makes any. He's just... there.
Oooh the drama.