The Reality Draft - Round 1: The Red Viper vs Annahnomoss

[Annahnomoss]

You are clearly overrating Sterling with the Giggs comparison (there's always a favourable comparison for everything and everyone, isn't there?). Still, you do have a very good point that the meh Sterling is facing the meh Rafael, who is far more likely to feck up than anyone else on the pitch, as evidenced this weekend

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned much.

Just stating facts. Sterling is far from Giggs level but it is a fact that Giggs only achieved or topped what Sterling did last year - 3 times in his life in the league. Also Sterling could very well score against Rafael, it wouldn't be above him to beat Rafael either.

 

[harms]

Just stating facts. Sterling is far from Giggs level but it is a fact that Giggs only achieved or topped what Sterling did last year - 3 times in his life in the league.

Sterling's best matches were when he played on top of the diamond though, not from a winger position. Not a good comparison at all.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Both central defences look unbalanced. Annah effectively has two sweepers, Red Viper two hard cnuts. I'd quite like to see Bossis on the left as there's nothing happening down that flank as it stands - which is a missed opportunity with Rafael there to potentially expose.

The Zona Mista/Catenaccio is actually a 3 CB formation so Gentile will be part of the central defense. LCB-SW-RCB - WB in this case. So Bossis is here playing a RCB role, both him and Gentile will be doing some "full-back jobs" as Amoros is a wing-back. For France he sometimes played together with libero/sweeper Marius Tresor and Bossis was versatile and capable of adjusting and playing well. Amoros was a bit hotheaded - so the defense is "hothead-calm-calm-hothead".

He's a mix of Bergomi and Scirea, versatility defender who is great on the ball and rarely commits fouls. If we look at Bergomi for example who was the ideal player for the roel and played with them for Italy - we see that he was a utility defender as well, capable as a sweeper, CB and full-back.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Sterling's best matches were when he played on top of the diamond though, not from a winger position. Not a good comparison at all.

He's supposed to be very central here, suppose it isn't showing. Both him and Littbarski are a mix of central attacking midfielders and RAM/LAM. Not by any means wingers, excuse me if I've used that phrase for it, but they're supposed to be wide attacking midfielders free to attack centrally just straight towards goal.

 

[harms]

He's supposed to be very central here, suppose it isn't showing. Both him and Littbarski are a mix of central attacking midfielders and RAM/LAM. Not by any means wingers, excuse me if I've used that phrase for it, but they're supposed to be wide attacking midfielders free to attack centrally just straight towards goal.

Yes, I understand that - just don't compare him with Giggs at any point, it's meaningless.

 

[PedroMendez]

thought about voting for TRV just because of his individual player, but went with Annah in the end, because of the match-discussion. I actually think that both teams would work just fine, but after reading both statements I am not so sure, that redviper actually knows how this matchup would play out. I also like slightly creative ways of lining up. Annah formed a team where most of his players fit into really well. Its a hard-to-beat team.
antohan completely overstates the importance of the robben vs x matchup and these kind of discussions are always a bit tedious. Robben at his very best is hard to stop, but Annah has a good way to deal with him: two worldclass players with a incredible deep line. As long as you are not building the team sole around stopping robben, which would be complete nonsense, thats as good as it gets. Yes, of course he could score, but its by no means a deciding mismatch.

 

[antohan]

Both central defences look unbalanced. Annah effectively has two sweepers, Red Viper two hard cnuts. I'd quite like to see Bossis on the left as there's nothing happening down that flank as it stands - which is a missed opportunity with Rafael there to potentially expose.

Indeed, I spent about five minutes trying to work out why Annah wasn't using Amoros on that flank

 

[antohan]

antohan completely overstates the importance of the robben vs x matchup and these kind of discussions are always a bit tedious.

It's only tedious because it has been blown up over and above a very simple point: Bossis would do a better job on that left flank. You can agree or disagree, but not keep banging on about Gentile being Superman as if Bossis was the lesser player. He wasn't.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Indeed, I spent about five minutes trying to work out why Annah wasn't using Amoros on that flank

Robben will help Rafael in the defense and Robben's defensive press is very good. I think it is a lot easier to attack against Prosinecki who was very lazy in his defense and wouldn't help out Sagnol as he needs. I also already have Littbarski on that side who played with Amoros, so they'd both do a whole lot of damage every time Prosinecki misses his defensive work - which would happen regularly.

Littbarski is a world class pacey/dribbling winger, similar to Robben's level and he is supported by an amazing wing-back as well. Sagnol is brilliant, but he'd not keep Littbarski and Amoros quiet over the course of a game. He's in a very difficult situation as whenever Prosinecki fails his defensive work, Amoros will come on the overlap either on the inside or the outside.

I think Sterling will have a good chance to create something against Rafael on his own on the counters when Robben is out of position.

 

[Annahnomoss]

It's only tedious because it has been blown up over and above a very simple point: Bossis would do a better job on that left flank. You can agree or disagree, but not keep banging on about Gentile being Superman as if Bossis was the lesser player. He wasn't.

That is a fine opinion to have but you must also realize it isn't a wrong opinion to think that Gentile is a more proven success against dribblers of the quality of Robben. I am not saying I couldn't have played Bossis on the left, I just don't think it would have been as proven. I couldn't have told it would definitely work then redirect you to matches or examples of where Bossis did the job on players of that level.

With Gentile there are actual examples, plenty of them.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Gascoigne:
Video

Spoiler

Littbarski:
Video

Spoiler

 

[antohan]

Robben will help Rafael in the defense and Robben's defensive press is very good. I think it is a lot easier to attack against Prosinecki who was very lazy in his defense and wouldn't help out Sagnol as he needs...

Sagnol is brilliant, but he'd not keep Littbarski and Amoros quiet over the course of a game.

Good thing you aren't facing Sagnol at all

Gentile is a more proven success against dribblers of the quality of Robben.

That's where we disagree, Gentile is easier to argue as a proven man-marker, but that doesn't make him better suited to deal with someone like Robben specifically.

In any case, it's largely the difference between TRV not getting a look-in and having some angle to exploit, with little success for the most part. It isn't a minor issue though as it's difficult to see either side scoring. Right now I imagine two sides camped in their halves waiting for the other feckers to attack so they can counter them

 

[Annahnomoss]

Good thing you aren't facing Sagnol at all



That's where we disagree, Gentile is easier to argue as a proven man-marker, but that doesn't make him better suited to deal with someone like Robben specifically.

In any case, it's largely the difference between TRV not getting a look-in and having some angle to exploit, with little success for the most part. It isn't a minor issue though as it's difficult to see either side scoring. Right now I imagine two sides camped in their halves waiting for the other feckers to attack so they can counter them

Well better that it is Sergi. I think that Littbarski who is as good of a dribbler as Robben and has the added help of Amoros over Rafael and is up against Sergi who is supported only by Prosinecki - will be more likely to lead to a goal for me than the Robben-Rafael flank.

Yes Robben is world class, but he has the worst supporting full-back in the draft with him - up against a Gentile who is only on defensive duties with a covering Scirea and Cocu around. Littbarski is nearly as good as Robben and he has Amoros there with him as well.

 

[PedroMendez]

In any case, it's largely the difference between TRV not getting a look-in and having some angle to exploit, with little success for the most part. It isn't a minor issue though as it's difficult to see either side scoring. Right now I imagine two sides camped in their halves waiting for the other feckers to attack so they can counter them

scholes and costa would take over and ignore their manager at the sideline. The team is perfectly capable of playing "regular" attacking football. Restricting yourself to counter attacks when the team can do so much more is pointless. If its really just down to counters, Annah will win, because his defence will make less mistakes.

 

[antohan]

Yes Robben is world class, but he has the worst supporting full-back in the draft with him. Littbarski is nearly as good as Robben and he has Amoros there with him as well.

You have to be kidding me.

 

[Annahnomoss]

You have to be kidding me.

I know you rate Robben closer to Maradona/Messi. The point remains the same, Littbarski with Amoros are two world class players who already played together. A world class pairing compared to Robben-Rafael where only one part is world class.

 

[antohan]

scholes and costa would take over and ignore their manager at the sideline. The team is perfectly capable of playing "regular" attacking football. Restricting yourself to counter attacks when the team can do so much more is pointless. If its really just down to counters, Annah will win, because his defence will make less mistakes.

Agreed. I've always taken the stance that if the instruction makes no sense the players will rebel. It was funny reading the instructions though and how both insisted they would defend very deep and counter. I agree with you, TRV absolutely has to take initiative and take some risks because both sitting back will only go one way.

 

[Jayvin]

Agree with Anto regarding Gentile's position, I reckon you're making it more complicated than it needs to be. Bossis-Scirea-Gentile-Amoros and you would probably have my vote. Not convinced by TRV's midfield, too many similar players and I don't like Prosinecki on that left flank. I can see Littbarski and Amoros destroying you on that side.

 

[antohan]

I know you rate Robben closer to Maradona/Messi. The point remains the same, Littbarski with Amoros are two world class players who already played together. A world class pairing compared to Robben-Rafael where only one part is world class.

You've completely lost the plot now. I rate Littbarski higher than Robben, that's why I laughed.

I don't buy the whole Bossis-Amoros-Litti "proven" thing. Bossis-Litti was very brief and very unsuccessful. Amoros-Litti never actually happened as far as I know.

 

[Gio]

Agree with Anto regarding Gentile's position, I reckon you're making it more complicated than it needs to be. Bossis-Scirea-Gentile-Amoros and you would probably have my vote. Not convinced by TRV's midfield, too many similar players and I don't like Prosinecki on that left flank. I can see Littbarski and Amoros destroying you on that side.

There's a lot of duplication with Prosinecki, Scholes and Rui Costa. All would want to run the game from the centre. And I wouldn't fancy any of them keeping up running back towards their own goal. Gascoigne could easily find himself free for a goal here.

 

[Annahnomoss]

@edgar allan pillow
Tactical Change;

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Seems it's not possible to edit via phone. Pics not getting deleted.

Will update OP in 30 mins.

 

[Raees]

 

[Annahnomoss]

There's a lot of duplication with Prosinecki, Scholes and Rui Costa. All would want to run the game from the centre. And I wouldn't fancy any of them keeping up running back towards their own goal. Gascoigne could easily find himself free for a goal here.

I think it is certainly true. Prosinecki had a great passing range and was brilliant as a playmaker, but how often did he play as a winger with the playmaking already being done by others.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

There's a lot of duplication with Prosinecki, Scholes and Rui Costa. All would want to run the game from the centre. And I wouldn't fancy any of them keeping up running back towards their own goal. Gascoigne could easily find himself free for a goal here.

That, along with the counter-attacking tactical instruction, is my main concern about TRV's team. Annah's won the tactical argument here imo, and he gets my vote.

 

[Annahnomoss]

You're right in that he is a goal-scoring threat in his own right.. but Robben misses alot of chances, he's so direct. Littebarski is one of my favourite players and he has scored goals in big games at International level, so assuming I still agree to your argument.. I still feel vipers attack has players who have dominated in all forms of football and consistently scored. Eto'o v Rossi.. only one winner for me personally.

Robben

09/10 - 37 games, 23 goals
11/12 - 36 games, 19 goals

Litterbarski

82-83 33 games, 17 goals
84-85 28 games, 16 goals

Your defence is beastly - I admit, in reality probably would be 0-0.. as that defence in addition to Cocu-Simeone protecting it is ridiculously solid, probably the best defence in the draft in all honesty. I just went for the team that was better balanced across defence, midfield and attack in my opinion. I prefer his attack, midfield - two different styles... his is more flamboyant, yours is more aggressive... but I think you are missing a play-making centre mid alongside Simeone.. i.e. a Scholes type player. Defence - I prefer yours. His keeper is better.. so on balance, I'd still have to pick Viper.

Cocu is a brilliant playmaker. He very often gets mislabeled in to the purely ball winning sort of player but it isn't really what type of player he was. Unfortunately not any highlight reels with him, but I am sure someone who followed him more closely during his career like @antohan can say a thing or two about Cocu's ability on the ball.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I think my midfield pairing are going slightly under the radar. Simeone was an all action midfielder, a defensive box to box midfielder who would do a massive job offensively while still possessing a great combination of intelligence and harrying ability. Cocu is a good playmaker, very solid defensively and he's not limited to a purely defensive job here - he'll participate as he wants in the offense.

Together with Gazza they have the engine to be suited to such a back and forth game which Viper is playing. A counter-attacking game where my forwards are also more suited as well with their blistering pace and dribbling ability from both sides and from Gazza centrally.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I think Annah's team has the edge here. One they will have much more possession than Viper. And with the bodies in midfield, I don't think either Scholes or Rui Costa will have time or space to run things, and without that the front 3 will be starved of service. They are fast and lethal, but without seeing much of the ball, they will be hard pressed to score...esp against that air tight defence.

On the other hand, Annah will have tough time scoring as he still need more attacking power imo. Having Gazza there will prove crucial to here.

I see this as 1-0 favouring Annah with Gazza scoring the winner.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

New team sheet updated in OP.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

From what I see now, TRV leads Annah by 17-10.

The Red Viper (17) - crappycraperson(2) Wittmann45 arjwiz IBleedRed Raees(2) Ish84045 sun_tzu bucky Isotope Kazi rpitroda MTR Invictus Joga Bonito(2)
Annahnomoss(10) - Jayvin Pat_Mustard Edgar Allan Pillow VivaJanuzaj(2) Skizzo(2) PedroMendez harms(2)

Several managers yet to vote which may turn the tide either way.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Cheers mate. Lovely to see that people enjoy Gazza's talents! His burst of pace, close control and dribbling was magical. He could get a ball at the midfield line and just go on a burst all the way towards the box beating player after player.

 

[antohan]

@Edgar Allan Pillow , for future reference, when a teamsheet changes it's useful to keep the original one and note what scoreline it was changed at. It's easier for anyone joining the thread to follow, let alone when you look back at a game some time later!

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Edgar Allan Pillow , for future reference, when a teamsheet changes it's useful to keep the original one and note what scoreline it was changed at. It's easier for anyone joining the thread to follow, let alone when you look back at a game some time later!

Oh yeah. Forgot that. Have it in pm. I'll add to OP in a bit...

 

[antohan]

Annah now leaves me in a tight spot. I was going to vote for him regardless but now it may look like I'm voting because he did that switch.

Mmm, may have to abstain here. ..................................................................................................................................................... :lulzy: /troll

 

[antohan]

From what I see now, TRV leads Annah by 17-10.

The Red Viper (17) - crappycraperson(2) Wittmann45 arjwiz IBleedRed Raees(2) Ish84045 sun_tzu bucky Isotope Kazi rpitroda MTR Invictus Joga Bonito(2)
Annahnomoss(10) - Jayvin Pat_Mustard Edgar Allan Pillow VivaJanuzaj(2) Skizzo(2) PedroMendez harms(2)

Several managers yet to vote which may turn the tide either way.

I know he is in an arse of a timezone, but he is still a manager

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I know he is in an arse of a timezone, but he is still a manager

Yeah! This is hard work

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I didn't get the Robben / Gentile thingy even before. even if Robben was too good for Gentile, he still had Scirea behind him. Don't think there was any major lapse there, especially with Cocu hovering around there.

 

[Raees]

Can managers change their vote midway through a game?

 

[crappycraperson]

Can managers change their vote midway through a game?

No rules governing it

 

[Raees]

No rules governing it

Cool, just checking. I am increasingly convinced by Annah's reasoning and the argument that Vipers midfield trio is likely to step on each others toes.