The Reality Draft - Round 1: The Red Viper vs Annahnomoss

[Balu]

You've completely lost the plot now. I rate Littbarski higher than Robben, that's why I laughed.

I don't buy the whole Bossis-Amoros-Litti "proven" thing. Bossis-Litti was very brief and very unsuccessful. Amoros-Litti never actually happened as far as I know.

I'd say Littbarski at his peak came close to Ribery at his best. Depending on what you want from your attacking player, you can make a case for both, just like many people rate Robben at his best higher than Ribery in his treble winning form (which I disagree with though).

I know you rate Robben closer to Maradona/Messi. The point remains the same, Littbarski with Amoros are two world class players who already played together. A world class pairing compared to Robben-Rafael where only one part is world class.

Maybe my memory plays tricks on me, but when did they play together? Littbarski joined RC Paris for a year and then went back to Cologne and in the end played a few years in Japan. I'm pretty sure Amoros never played for Paris or outside of France? I think you confused Bossis and Amoros there.

Regarding the game. I'd say it's a 0-0 more often than a football game should be. I rate TRV's attack better and it gets a lot of creative support from midfield, maybe more than what's good for the balance of the team. But I also think that Scirea is more likely to organise a flawless defense and he has more protection from midfield, so if I had to choose, I'd probably give Annah a slight edge and say Scirea will help keep a clean sheet that one time more often. Not entirely sure, if that slight edge is big enough to give him my vote though.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

20-19 to Annah by my count? A hell of a comeback overnight!

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

20-19 to Annah by my count? A hell of a comeback overnight!

Yeah these managers' votes do make a huge difference

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I agree with much of what's been said here on both sides - and I think both managers have done well. What makes the difference for me is Annah altering his defensive approach. As it stands now, his defense will be a mountain to climb. His set-up in general is unorthodox at first glance - but I think it might just work.

Not a whole lot between 'em, but I reckon Annah wins this one, 1-0.

 

[The Red Viper]

Woaah!

Was leading by around eight when I went offline last night.

 

[Theon]

I can't see Annah scoring and whilst TRV isn't exactly free scoring himself, I think the extra creativity in his midfield is more likely to result in a goal.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Anyone knows the score? da feck is going on?

 

[RoadTrip]

Holy shite! This game became tight!

 

[The Red Viper]

Annah's defence is top class. No doubt about it. Probably the best defence in the whole draft. But his attack is far from being that good. I don't want to berate Rossi's contribution to Italy NT in 1982 World Cup but was he ever consistent enough at any point of his career to be considered a top attacker? Sterling is again someone I rate very highly. But he is still quite raw. His finishing has been good thos season for a couple of months but last season there were many instances where he would scuff his shot. He scored close to ten goals but those were mostly tap-ins after he would have made a run from wide or after he had beat the off-side trap. Not saying they aren't important goals but here he would be up against two power-houses in Vidic and Stam who were great at blocking the shots like that. The only goal I can remember where he showed his composure properly was in the goal against City. Littbarski is someone I rate highly but he is carrying the attack here. I know he did that for Koln but leaving Bayern aside were there any top defences in Bundesliga then? Bremen with Bratseth is the only one I can think of. Annah has a great chance of keeping a clean sheet against us but my side has much more in its locker in terms if goals, creativity and guile to unlock his defence than vice versa.

 

[The Red Viper]

I'd say Littbarski at his peak came close to Ribery at his best. Depending on what you want from your attacking player, you can make a case for both, just like many people rate Robben at his best higher than Ribery in his treble winning form (which I disagree with though).

That treble winning season, Ribery was indeed better. Robben didn't start many games till February itself. He was out injuries and niggles but only in the second half of the season he started playing regularly. Overall contribution wise, Ribery contributed more that season but Robben's form in the last two months was unreal. He was outstanding in both the games against Dortmund. Still remember that sick winner by him against Dortmund in DFB Pokal.

 

[The Red Viper]

Anyway, slight change in tactics. Since Annah is playing deep now, I won't play a deep backline. It won't be a high-backline either but it would be normal one. We would keep the ball in and around the midfield and look to invite Simeone and Cocu to come out of their position to win back the ball. Rui Costa especially is the key here along with Scholes. Both of them would be instructed not to release the ball early and wait for Annah's central midfielders to attack them before releasing the ball. This way, when one of them does it, Prosinecki would take up that space.

 

[MJJ]

Went with RV, not much between the two teams but think RV will find it a tiny bit easier to score.

 

[The Red Viper]

Also, In Prosinecki, Rui Costa and Robben, there are three players who had great close control and were lethal in tight spaces. Even though Annah is defending in numbers, the duo of Prosinecki and Rui Costa have the footballing intelligence to make use of the little space they get and still deliver a pass that can threaten the opposition defence. Robben though would go direct most of the times but he is providing something different. So, we won't be monotonous with our attacking moves as all three can attack and exploit in different ways.


Some of those feints were sick and this was at Milan when he had lost a bit of agility and slight pace. Couldn't find a proper video of his Fiorentina days where he was more incisive. Even at Milan, he still did quite well. Especially in the 2002-03 season when they won the UEFA Champions League.

 

[crappycraperson]

I don't understand why people think Scholes circa 06-08 can't work with Rui Costa of Fiorentina.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

I don't understand why people think Scholes circa 06-08 can't work with Rui Costa of Fiorentina.

I don't think it won't work, what I think is that it won't work on a counter attacking system against Annah's team

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

If my math is correct, it's 23-23?
@Edgar Allan Pillow I assume your vote counts as two as well right?

 

[crappycraperson]

Red Viper (23) - crappycraperson, Wittmann45, arjwiz, IBleedRed, sajeev, MJJ, ashgabat, Ish84045, sun_tzu, bucky, Theon, Isotope, The Red Viper, Kazi, rpitroda, MTR, fontaine, Invictus, Joga Bonito

Annah (24) - Gio, antohan, Jayvin, Pat_Mustard, BorisDeLeFora, Raees, manikandan nair, Paolo Di Canio, Edgar Allan Pillow, VivaJanuzaj, Annahnomoss, Chesterlestreet, Skizzo, PedroMendez, harms

@Edgar Allan Pillow - Clarify if Theon's vote counts as twice or not? (He is an AM if I am correct)

 

[crappycraperson]

Raees change in vote was a 4 point swing for Annah!

 

[Theon]

@Edgar Allan Pillow - Clarify if Theon's vote counts as twice or not? (He is an AM if I am correct)

We're co-managers, I've done the drafting and I did the write up - but I won't be around for most of the games due to work, bar an hour or so at night. That's why I needed someone to help out and do it together.

 

[MJJ]

Red Viper (23) - crappycraperson, Wittmann45, arjwiz, IBleedRed, sajeev, MJJ, ashgabat, Ish84045, sun_tzu, bucky, Theon, Isotope, The Red Viper, Kazi, rpitroda, MTR, fontaine, Invictus, Joga Bonito

Annah (24) - Gio, antohan, Jayvin, Pat_Mustard, BorisDeLeFora, Raees, manikandan nair, Paolo Di Canio, Edgar Allan Pillow, VivaJanuzaj, Annahnomoss, Chesterlestreet, Skizzo, PedroMendez, harms

@Edgar Allan Pillow - Clarify if Theon's vote counts as twice or not? (He is an AM if I am correct)

More like a co-manager. Dunno what the ruling on that is though.

 

[harms]

Red Viper (23) - crappycraperson, Wittmann45, arjwiz, IBleedRed, sajeev, MJJ, ashgabat, Ish84045, sun_tzu, bucky, Theon, Isotope, The Red Viper, Kazi, rpitroda, MTR, fontaine, Invictus, Joga Bonito

Annah (24) - Gio, antohan, Jayvin, Pat_Mustard, BorisDeLeFora, Raees, manikandan nair, Paolo Di Canio, Edgar Allan Pillow, VivaJanuzaj, Annahnomoss, Chesterlestreet, Skizzo, PedroMendez, harms

@Edgar Allan Pillow - Clarify if Theon's vote counts as twice or not? (He is an AM if I am correct)

It doesn't, he clarified it in the main thread - only MJJ has bonus vote

 

[The Red Viper]

I don't think it won't work, what I think is that it won't work on a counter attacking system against Annah's team

Well, now, I am not playing a counter-attacking style. Changed my tactics. If he is allowing me to have the major share of possession, I am happy to.

 

[Raees]

Raees change in vote was a 4 point swing for Annah!

Didn't take it lightly, spent the night watching Rui Costa and Prosinecki vids.. came to the conclusion, they both drift into the middle far too often for it too work. Robben is the only source of width and if he is coming off the right and cutting in, too many chefs in the kitchen for me.. playing right into Annah's hands with that super strong midfield base and legendary defence. Annah's wingers can take their men round the outside as well as drift in..

 

[harms]

More like a co-manager. Dunno what the ruling on that is though.

Difficult to call. I will just act obtuse and all bureaucratic here and give the (bonus) vote to MJJ as he is the manager. Theon gets treated as a scout and cannot vote in his team games and for other games gets treated as scan voter.

Theon...I know this is not fair to the efforts you put in, but hope you are fine with this!

 

[Balu]

If my math is correct, it's 23-23?
@Edgar Allan Pillow I assume your vote counts as two as well right?

He's not a manager anymore, why should his vote count more than Theon's or Pat's or mine or whoever?

 

[crappycraperson]

Didn't take it lightly, spent the night watching Rui Costa and Prosinecki vids.. came to the conclusion, they both drift into the middle far too often for it too work. Robben is the only source of width and if he is coming off the right and cutting in, too many chefs in the kitchen for me.. playing right into Annah's hands with that super strong midfield base and legendary defence. Annah's wingers can take their men round the outside as well as drift in..

I don't agree about Robben cutting in and clogging up the middle. Even on the right he runs down the wing mostly before cutting in. So he would stretching play alright.

Annah himself said.. that he is not even playing them as a wingers and they would be looking to attack through the middle.

 

[The Red Viper]

Didn't take it lightly, spent the night watching Rui Costa and Prosinecki vids.. came to the conclusion, they both drift into the middle far too often for it too work. Robben is the only source of width and if he is coming off the right and cutting in, too many chefs in the kitchen for me.. playing right into Annah's hands with that super strong midfield base and legendary defence. Annah's wingers can take their men round the outside as well as drift in..

Not really. Especially now that, I will be pushing my defence up a bit and play possession-based football. All three have clear roles. Rui Costa and Prosinecki would operate in and around the final third while Scholes plays in a slightly deeper role. Spain have shown how to make it work with Silva, Iniesta, Xavi and Alonso all playing in the same team. Obviously, I won't be playing like how Spain do as they're total tiki-taka while I would be more direct but don't see why Prosinecki and Rui Costa can't play together. Arsenal had Hleb, Rosicky and Fabregas playing together and they did really well. Yes, I know they didn't win much but their problems were more at the back and mentality. Back to Prosinecki and Rui Costa, while Prosinecki was famous for his great vision, was a great dribbler as well. He could run with the ball and take on his man quite effectively.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

He's not a manager anymore, why should his vote count more than Theon's or Pat's or mine or whoever?

Well he's been more involved in this draft than anyone of the managers(bar antohan maybe), and he is the draft master(or whatever you call it )

 

[Raees]

Prosinecki was famous for his great vision, was a great dribbler as well. He could run with the ball and take on his man quite effectively.

Outstanding dribbler, one of the most technically gifted dribblers I've seen.. such flair.

 

[The Red Viper]

I don't agree about Robben cutting in and clogging up the middle. Even on the right he runs down the wing mostly before cutting in. So he would stretching play alright.

Annah himself said.. that he is not even playing them as a wingers and they would be looking to attack through the middle.

Yep. Both Raheem and Litti are playing quite narrow.

 

[crappycraperson]

He's not a manager anymore, why should his vote count more than Theon's or Pat's or mine or whoever?

Yes.. it can't count as twice

 

[The Red Viper]

Outstanding dribbler, one of the most technically gifted dribblers I've seen.. such flair.

Yep. He and Savicevic.

Two players whom played as if the ball was glued to their feet.

 

[Balu]

Well he's been more involved in this draft than anyone of the managers(bar antohan maybe), and he is the draft master(or whatever you call it )

Yeah, he's actually a really good draft master, because he sticks to his own rules.
The rule:

B4 - Playing managers vote count twice. Please honour the code and avoid tactical voting.

And his comment in the main thread:

And I just relaized that my own vote counts as a scan vote. FML.

 

[Raees]

Yep. He and Savicevic.

Two players whom played as if the ball was glued to their feet.

Both play like street footballers.. one thing I love about Di Maria is that he has brought this element back into the United side - sheer arrogance on the ball and willingness to take people on, ain't had that since Ronaldo.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Morning all!

The Red Viper (21) - crappycraperson, Wittmann45, arjwiz, IBleedRed, sajeev, MJJ, ashgabat, Ish84045, sun_tzu, bucky, Theon, Isotope, Kazi, rpitroda, MTR, fontaine, Invictus, Joga Bonito
Annahnomoss (22) - Gio, antohan, Jayvin, Pat_Mustard, BorisDeLeFora, Raees, manikandan nair, Paolo Di Canio, Edgar Allan Pillow, VivaJanuzaj, Chesterlestreet, Skizzo, PedroMendez, harms

It's squeeky bum time!

 

[The Red Viper]

 

[antohan]

I'd say Littbarski at his peak came close to Ribery at his best. Depending on what you want from your attacking player, you can make a case for both, just like many people rate Robben at his best higher than Ribery in his treble winning form (which I disagree with though).

Fair point, I'd prefer Robben in TRVs side and Litti in Annah's.

Maybe my memory plays tricks on me, but when did they play together? Littbarski joined RC Paris for a year and then went back to Cologne and in the end played a few years in Japan. I'm pretty sure Amoros never played for Paris or outside of France? I think you confused Bossis and Amoros there.

Indeed, Bossis played with both Littbarski and Amoros but those two never played together. Bossis-Littbarski is tenuous anyway, it's like saying Berbatov-Phil Jones or something like that. Or worse, seeing as RC Paris was 7th in the league that season iirc.

 

[antohan]

I'm actually surprised you were ahead for so long after the way Rafa dropped a bollock like the one on Saturday. Particularly when your initial stance was to soak and counter. No one at the other end has the potential to become such a liability, and that to me makes the fundamental difference between the sides in what is otherwise a very likely 0-0.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

that to me makes the fundamental difference between the sides in what is otherwise a very likely 0-0

Spot on

 

[The Red Viper]

I'm actually surprised you were ahead for so long after the way Rafa dropped a bollock like the one on Saturday. Particularly when your initial stance was to soak and counter. No one at the other end has the potential to become such a liability, and that to me makes the fundamental difference between the sides in what is otherwise a very likely 0-0.

See, I would have agreed to your point if Rafael was facing someone like lets say a Overmars or Ribery or Robben etc since those players have had the experience and maturity to exploit's Rafael's positioning. Also, To be fair to Rafael, he was initially clearly fouled before the penalty which itself was dodgy.