No, but who in his right mind wants to fight him? They might not believe my hype on here, but you can bet they do in professional boxing.
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
- Thread starter CLK_FPC
- Start date
You should really do something productive with all this built up rage you seem to carry.
Well the trouble is he's at a crossroads. He can't continue to fight journeymen or those at the end of their careers as it just doesn't help him professionally or with the media and the public. He also hasn't earned the right to step up to say Fury or Usyk level, and as I said if Fury wins he gets a trilogy rematch if he loses he retires but possibly comes back for the Joshua fight on Netflix and their millions.
He still has time to be added to the card in December as planned but I've read numerous articles and listened to a few podcasts and there seems to be a big load of radio silence when it comes to Moses even being mentioned at the moment. He really needs another fight sooner rather than later otherwise it could be a year since he last fought and that is no good whatsoever for a promising up and coming fighter who really need to get out there with two maybe three fights a year earlyish in their career to promote themselves, get recognition with the public and a desire for them to want to see him more, and also to move up the rankings and obtain number one challenger status for an eventual title fight.
Yet again the heavyweight division is in a lull outside the top two or three big names and a few older boxers who all have multiple losses on their records. It does appear that Moses is in limbo right now with few wanting to risk ending their career just to give him a step up. Joyce being injured really hasn't helped, I just worry Joshua, Chisora, Whyte or Parker may be a little soon for him but there aren't too many other options that can give him the fight, rounds experience and status that he needs to step up a level.
His brother is also a great prospect at Light Heavyweight and it's going to be interesting to see who he gets lined up with next too.
It's quite funny that the cruiserweight has come up and beat all of the big bad heavyweights.
That’s so unfair. Usyk was already a PfP contender before he moved up. For me Usyk is already up there with the greatest & most skillful boxers of all time and he’s horribly underrated in this thread. What Usyk has achieved is quite remarkable. An absolute legend. You can compare him to Holyfield in terms of a cruiser weight fighting heavyweights, but Usyk is a far superior boxer to what even Evander Holyfield was.
I'm more taking the piss out of the heavyweights who dismissed Usyk.
Quite a few ranked 10-20 would take him on for a Turki payday but not take jobbers wages to face him.
It's up to Fwank whether or not he wants to match him that highly and take the associated risk.
Joyce is probably the best next opponent for him all things considered.
As I mentioned a couple of times in previous posts, Joyce has lost three of his last four fights and taken some heavy punches. He froze in a recent interview before the Dubois fight and many are suggesting he's seriously injured, especially as he's hardly been seen at all since his recent loss to Chisora. He's also 39 so the last thing he needs is losing to a up and coming hungry, powerful, rapidly quick fighter like Moses. Considering the concerns in the press and from his fans in boxing forums, I think he would have to undergo some pretty thorough examinations before he was given the OK to fight again. His reply to the rumours was hardly convincing either.
Yeah Joyce sounds punch drunk all the time, not surprised considering his style. There are 2 or 3 upcoming British heavyweights Moses could fight, but I guess they’ll be running scared. And the money’s always an issue of course. But I’m not too worried about Moses, he’s too good for boxing to pass on and Fwank knows what he’s doing the crafty bastard. Moses I could see boxing a lot in the states, they’ll love him there.
One thing that is kinda sad about this heavyweight era is that despite having a decent pool of talent, the resume of most of the top guys bar Usyk, really don't hold up well when to compared to historically great heavyweights.
What i mean by this is:
What i mean by this is:
- Fury's best win is Wilder but Wilder has such a thin resume, that its hard to rank how good he was (his best win is against Ortiz whose best win was Bryant Jennings? Charles Martin? not exactly world level...)
- Wilder losing to Parker and Zhang comprehensively harms him massively in terms of legacy.
- AJ has a decent resume (Parker win has aged really well imo) but lost to Ruiz (tbf he did avenge this), lost 2 times in comprehensive fashion to Usyk and then got blasted out by Dubois. On top of this he hasn't fought Fury or Wilder.
Both Fury and AJ's best win is Wlad, come on now
If Usyk beats Fury and Dubois has a rematch with AJ (debatable whether he should), and they both lose….theyll have a bad blood blockbuster AJ vs Fury - 10 years in the making - then call it quits.
Kind of be a romantic heavyweight style ending
It's just silly that folks try to underrate Usyk. He is the pure definition of generational. If not multi-generational.
When other boxers fight there's lot's of talk around are they in the right head space? Have they fully prepped? Did they have the right trainer and team? With Usyk, no one even bothers. The guy is just otherworldly - to carry that very evasive amateur type pendulum bounce/stance into the heavyweight category and not gas out is something else. Never any excuses - just does the business, and can take a hit as well.
Controversial take but Dubois wasn't that good in this fight, which shows how bad AJ was.
AJ was obviously on shaky legs, he was even falling on the canvas under no pressure, and yet when he actually worked to evade Dubois, he did it quite successfully. It was whenever he stupidly tried to engage (with hands down no less) that he was eating punches.
He came in looking to try and prove he was a level above and got completely mauled.
Everyone was on about Dubois's lack of defence, well, it was on show, but AJ's was way worse.
Put it this way, a heavyweight contender e.g. Bakole watching that would not come out thinking "oh no, I have to avoid Dubois now".
AJ was obviously on shaky legs, he was even falling on the canvas under no pressure, and yet when he actually worked to evade Dubois, he did it quite successfully. It was whenever he stupidly tried to engage (with hands down no less) that he was eating punches.
He came in looking to try and prove he was a level above and got completely mauled.
Everyone was on about Dubois's lack of defence, well, it was on show, but AJ's was way worse.
Put it this way, a heavyweight contender e.g. Bakole watching that would not come out thinking "oh no, I have to avoid Dubois now".
Last edited:
Yh tbh fury's best win is Wlad but the only reason I didn't mention it is because Wlad fights against Fury and AJ are always highly debated. By that I mean: Fury is rightfully given full credit for beating Wlad (by a country mile), while when AJ fought Wlad, some have revised this as "Wlad was old, geriatric etc" which is funny because imo the Wlad that fought AJ was one of the best versions of Wlad I'd seen in his latter years
They both fought the old, end-of-his-career version of Wlad, of course, not the prime version(which AJ would have almost certainly lost to, going by their fight), but it was still Wlad. Likely enough to beat every other opponent they've faced bar Usyk, maybe
As said, I'm taking the piss out of the heavyweights and boxers that dismissed Usyk.
Fair enough, but in general in this thread there’s a complete lack of recognition for just how good Usyk is and what he’s achieved. For me, Tyson Fury showed how good he is by coming close to beating Usyk, because for me Usyk is up there with the Sugar Ray Robinsons of boxing.
CEJr not holding back. Scumbayyg.
Eubanks is right of course and yet the big money, the worldwide interest, the media publicity are there for the same exact reasons he joined them as a youngster. South America, Eastern Europe, East Asia are the other big environments for fight sports but I am not sure he would be able to point any of these countries on a map so yes, it is just bitterness because his career did not go as he hoped in his prime…… which is a memento to the latest shiny heavyweight boy you all are (rightly) hyping here: he needs to be veeery careful about his next steps!
Chisora on talkshite just then, how he can be talking of fighting on he could barely talk. The damage he has had to his brain is clear now.
Personally I think he’s overrated not underrated. Generational? Just don’t see it. How can he be so far ahead of the rest when he got a split decision over Fury in actually a much closer fight than people seem to remember and arguably would have lost to Dubois if he hadn’t had his shorts so high and possibly faked a low blow? That’s not a generational talent that’s miles ahead of the rest imo. I think he’s good but nowhere near as good as some want to make out
Fury has been long considered the best heavyweight of his generation. Usyk is not a natural heavyweight and the size difference between them was almost comical. He moved up from cruiserweight and beat every heavyweight champion, including Fury who had never lost, is an extremely skilled boxer, and a giant to boot. A cruiserweight moving up and cleaning up the heavyweight division is nothing short of generational. How many people before him had done that?
That’s on top of him cleaning up at cruiser, too, of course. And he did it all in everyone’s backyard. Deserves all the praise in the world.
The fact that the Fury fight was a split decision was scandalous. Usyk would've gotten jobbed on the cards without the KD.
Also it's crazy how TNT and the Dubois camp were able to sell this narrative Usyk was hit by a legit body shot. If the majority of the glove is below the belt line, then the ref is within his rights to award it a low blow. And besides, other than that one moment, Usyk pretty much dominated Dubois and made him quit. Is a refs discretion call enough to discredit Usyk? Surely not
Aye, he's the consensus greatest cruiuserweight ever (alongside Holyfield possibly), and has unified the heavyweight titles whilst being clearly undersized in this era of behemoth heavyweights. I'd concede that the Dubois win has an asterisk beside it, but Fury was a competitive but clear victory IMO. It's an extraordinary record for someone with only 22 professional fights.
I'm in the 'low blow' camp, but it was a borderline referee decision and given what Dubois has done since I'd love to see them rematch. Wins vs Fury and Dubois in rematches would be immense for his already incredible legacy.
That's certainly one way to tell it, the other is Usyk did his best impression of Simon Cowell and his high waisted trousers, which made blows to the lower stomach automatically look like illegal blows.
And of course Dubois is going to have the sails knocked out of him in terms of morale after seeing a good shot called bad, his opponent allowed to totally recover, recollect his thoughts and strategy and get back to it.
Usyk is an incredible fighter with the heart of a champion, clearly, but also not above "grabbing five" to clear his thoughts, which paints the picture of a wily strategist who will take advantage of a weak referee.
I don't know about 'discredit' - the referee is the one at fault and a smart opportunist took advantage of that - but that victory is controversial and Dubois' chance of winning was taken away from him. A better referee doesn't allow things to get to that stage because he tells Usyk to fix his shorts before he even walks out, and again inside the ring before opening round, if he's pulled them up again.
Just watched Four Kings on Amazon and WOW! Growing up watching those guys and being a huge Benn and Bruno fan. I remember listening to Bruno lose to Tyson on the radio. I stayed up and can still remember how excited I got when Bruno hurt Tyson and then how gutted I was when he lost. But ultimately as Benn says on the Series, Bruno just never had the killer instinct.
It's a great watch, it doesn't really show anything we didn't know, well it might, but I have followed these guys since I was a teenager so it was more a case of reminiscing than revelation. Although sadly, the one thing I did learn from the series disappointed me, angered and upset me even.
I recommend any boxing fans to give it a watch and see these absolute legends of British boxing tell their stories.
It's a great watch, it doesn't really show anything we didn't know, well it might, but I have followed these guys since I was a teenager so it was more a case of reminiscing than revelation. Although sadly, the one thing I did learn from the series disappointed me, angered and upset me even.
I recommend any boxing fans to give it a watch and see these absolute legends of British boxing tell their stories.
No talk at all about the big fight?
It's not at HW so limited interest on here.
Clarke/Wardley II probably gets more discussion.
The bill topper is potentially a fight for the ages and absolutely nobody can say with much confidence who will win.
A proper 50-50 fight. I think Bivol will nick it on points but also wouldn't surprise me if Beterbiev manages to stop him.
It’s a great clash of styles; I think I’d lean towards a Bivol decision too.
Can’t wait.
Can’t wait.
Starting it tonight.
Finished it was a great watch. Dunno if it was the same thing but I was angered by
Lewis being reluctant to properly acknowledge the hurt he'd caused.
Not to skip ahead and over the card this weekend which is brilliant and headlined by the best fight in boxing but... Fury-Usyk 2 undercard taking shape nicely:
- Israil Madrimov v Serhii Bohachuk - should be a great fight considering their last contests, really rate Madrimov and gave Crawford perhaps his toughest test to date, whilst Bohachuk's fight with highly-rated Vergil Ortiz could have gone either way.
- Moses Itauma v Demsey McKean - should be perceived as a bit of a step-up for Itauma considering McKean was last in with Hrgovic and is 22-1. Might end up not being all that competitive but certainly it advances Moses up the rankings in terms of world level.
- Johnny Fisher v Dave Allen - this should be just a good old-fashioned domestic level HW scrap.
- Dennis McCann v Peter McGrail - brilliant fight, in terms of UK fighters who aren't yet at world-level these are 2 of the most talented fighters around in any weight class. Winner should be right in the mix for belts straight away.
- Isaac Lowe v Lee McGregor - expecting this to be another entertaining domestic / European level scrap, McGregor looking to continue getting his career back on track but Lowe is a test for anyone.
Absofeckinglutely. Spot on, that's exactly what upset me.
Johnny Fisher will run over Dave Allen but the rest looks alright.
I really enjoyed it. Eubank is comedy gold.
I'm not so sure about that, Allen has been a decent test for a few and Fisher is English title level at best until proven otherwise - he's beaten absolutely nobody with a pulse thus far (Alen Babic doesn't count, awful fighter who should also be a cruiserweight).