The Redcafe Champions League Draft

[Theon]

Christ you make me sound like a right muppet there

To be fair on the Xavi pick I just thought it was too good to turn down, there was no way I thought he would last till 14th pick or whatever he was. I was certain he would be top 6/7 and it gave me a great option for changing to a different system away from the diamond.

That formation with Messi Iniesta behind Ronaldo looks absolutely immense IMO and surely would have been enough to win the draft. I actually think its better than the recent Barca side as Ronaldo and Pirlo's direct approach gives them a whole new option, and it is less tika takka without Busquets

 

[Moby]

Christ you make me sound like a right muppet there

To be fair on the Xavi pick I just thought it was too good to turn down, there was no way I thought he would last till 14th pick or whatever he was. I was certain he would be top 6/7 and it gave me a great option for changing to a different system away from the diamond.

That formation with Messi Iniesta behind Ronaldo looks absolutely immense IMO and surely would have been enough to win the draft. I actually think its better than the recent Barca side as Ronaldo and Pirlo's direct approach gives them a whole new option, and it is less tika takka without Busquets

Thing is though that Pirlo needs two workhorses with him to perform at his best, he's not as adept as Busquets in tight spaces to play pin point passes to the players around him. I doubt it would be the ideal setup for Pirlo, while Busquets is tailor made for that and has been brilliant himself.

 

[antohan]

I agree there was a logic and potential in the Xavi pick, my worry from the off was you would mishandle having that ace up your sleeve, which you did. I have this mental image of you holding a gun and insisting on shooting your foot while everyone around you is trying to wrestle your arm back

I blame your captivity under the House of Bolton.

 

[Thisistheone]

I know, and you've played the draft brilliantly Theon.

Anto would be the world's harshest teacher. Imagine him in School on parent's evening. "Yeah, your son tries hard, but he's got shit for brains"

 

[Moby]

I agree there was a logic and potential in the Xavi pick, my worry from the off was you would mishandle having that ace up your sleeve, which you did. I have this mental image of you holding a gun and insisting on shooting your foot while everyone around you is trying to wrestle your arm back

I blame your captivity under the House of Bolton.

 

[Theon]

Thing is though that Pirlo needs two workhorses with him to perform at his best, he's not as adept as Busquets in tight spaces to play pin point passes to the players around him. I doubt it would be the ideal setup for Pirlo, while Busquets is tailor made for that and has been brilliant himself.

Hmm agree with you to an extent on Pirlo, but from memory in Germany 2006 it was just Gattuso doing the workhorse role, and for Milan he's been partnered with a few who offer less workrate than Xavi, Seedorf for example doesn't offer any more than Xavi. Nowadays that his legs has gone he needs that De Rossi/Marchisio or Marchisio/Vidal pairing next to him, but I'm not certain its completely needed in his younger days (not that he was ever remotely a workhorse)

Yeah Busquets is tailor made for the tika takka stuff but I think the side above has much more than that. Pirlo would be fine playing short passes with Xavi/Iniesta but in that deeper role he offers a whole new threat to the attack with his direct passes/through balls to Ronaldo, and Messi as a wide right brings a whole new directness to Barca's play as his dribbling is on another level to Pedro/Sanchez whoever

I think basically that the Barca style side above is way more direct than the current one, which is an improvement IMO

 

[antohan]

Thing is though that Pirlo needs two workhorses with him to perform at his best, he's not as adept as Busquets in tight spaces to play pin point passes to the players around him. I doubt it would be the ideal setup for Pirlo, while Busquets is tailor made for that and has been brilliant himself.

Yeah, that midfield unit is more wonky than it appears when you look at individuals. It's strange that his side was an early favourite as far as the collective cohesion is concerned and as the game advanced it was individuals that were favoured over the collective.

 

[Theon]

I know, and you've played the draft brilliantly Theon.

Anto would be the world's harshest teacher. Imagine him in School on parent's evening. "Yeah, your son tries hard, but he's got shit for brains"

So true

 

[Moby]

I know, and you've played the draft brilliantly Theon.

Anto would be the world's harshest teacher. Imagine him in School on parent's evening. "Yeah, your son tries hard, but he's got shit for brains"

Stahp my keyboard is covered with coffee...

 

[antohan]

Yeah Busquets is tailor made for the tika takka stuff but I think the side above has much more than that. Pirlo would be fine playing short passes with Xavi/Iniesta but in that deeper role he offers a whole new threat to the attack with his direct passes/through balls to Ronaldo

Individuals with different things to offer need not equal a midfield unit with more to offer. They may all be playing entirely separate and incompatible games.

 

[Theon]

True but we are talking about Pirlo here, he could definitely knock it around with Xavi and Iniesta

 

[antohan]

I know, and you've played the draft brilliantly Theon.

Anto would be the world's harshest teacher. Imagine him in School on parent's evening. "Yeah, your son tries hard, but he's got shit for brains"

You got me to a tee there. I actually did some teaching years ago and stopped doing it because I hated that side of things.

I would have people asking me what they could do to improve their grades and in the back of my mind I would be thinking: "Nothing, don't bother". Or if a parent wanted their kids to be top of the class I would be thinking: "You really need to get another kid".

 

[Thisistheone]

Stahp my keyboard is covered with coffee...

Haha!

 

[antohan]

True but we are talking about Pirlo here, he could definitely knock it around with Xavi and Iniesta

If I had a penny for every time you say "but we are talking about X here" I would be a millionaire

 

[Fergus' son]

Reflection time. I know Theon doesn't mind as he openly admits he is an irrepressible muppet when it comes to "improvement picks" and many of you probably got the occasional PMs with his latest brainwave.

While doing the second picking round he sent me about 100 random formations he could shoot for. The pick of them was this:





Settled, right?

Then goes and picks Xavi who hadn't featured in any of his initial options. When I ask him if he lost his marbles it is pretty clear he hadn't expected him to last and feared Fergus' side if he got him.



And then he reveals his own dream ticket (now worrying about Gio):



Can't say you weren't warned Theon...


The point isn't "I was right" but that people need to focus on their sides, trust their players and build on their strengths rather than keep doubting and tinkering worrying about others.

The two sides in this final were arguably the ones that drafted best in the first round, but one kept a solid core and built on it and the other has been all over the shop since.

Gio was the deserved winner here.

 

[Theon]

Just for the hell of it - I think this is about the best diamond you could make from the Champions League era.

Most are self-explanatory and have been covered already, Cafu/Carlos recreated that immense partnership for wingerless Brazil etc.

Davids is there because he played in a fairly similar system at Juve with a 5-3-2 and was exactly the type of dominant presser that would excel here, both of them flanking Pirlo is just awesome.

Zidane again played in similar systems for both Juve and France - he gets the nod over the likes of Iniesta or Kaka as the ultimate attacking midfielder

Henry and Ronaldo - this would be absolute sex to watch on the counter attack, when these two break from a Pirlo/Zidane pass noone would stop them

 

[Thisistheone]

Great team Theon and yet Gio won it without having any of them. Shows how much depth there was in this draft.

Best Utd XI in CL era?

Team of the Tournament?

 

[Theon]

That back 5 was the same I had as the team of the tournament TITO

Keano definitely in there as well, Ralaks pulled off a 4-4-2 brilliantly and Keano was the main reason why. Xavi can't be in there tbf, Pirlo is more deserving and also possibly Viera - Viera never got talked about much in Gio's team but to win the tournament his midfield must have been doing something right and Viera was the one controlling that side.

Messi I don't think should be in over someone like Rivaldo, he spent most of the tournament out of position and not being used properly IMO whereas Rivaldo was in his element with Gio

Ronaldo a no brainer - probably the player of the tournament

 

[Stobzilla]

I still reckon I should have had this sewn up.

 

[Theon]

You could have!

 

[Thisistheone]

If it was a 5-a-side tournament, you would have walked it Stobz.

Stam Gerrard Veron Totti Henry

Goalie when needed.

 

[Theon]

Not sure on the last attacker for the team of the tournament..

Could Ronaldinho be in there?

 

[Thisistheone]

Not sure on the last attacker for the team of the tournament..

Could Ronaldinho be in there?

Giggs? Or Nedved, Figo...

 

[Theon]

Gio usually doesn't bang on about his players as much as most others in the games, he just lets his teamsheet and OP do the talking

So going through the threads its hard to pick out who was winning the games for him

 

[Theon]

Giggs? Or Nedved, Figo...

Giggs is a great shout

Figo is one I thought about because I went up against him twice and in both games he was getting so much credit from the voters and needed to be dealt with - problem is Figo played 2 and lost 2

 

[Fergus' son]

Great team Theon and yet Gio won it without having any of them. Shows how much depth there was in this draft.

Best Utd XI in CL era?

Team of the Tournament?

Xavi can't be in there, his inclusion in the final cost his team the game!

Also, I'd have Stam instead of Vidic.

 

[Fergus' son]

Can anyone have a go at a team of flops of the tournament?

I'd go with:

---------- Reina
Gallas Piqué Samuel Tarnat
------- Gilberto Xavi
-------- Riquelme
---- Giuly Ibra Rooney

 

[kps88]

Great tournament folks with a fitting final. I had Gio down as favourite from the very beginning but thought Theon would win it after he picked up Ronaldo.

My highlight was NM staring a thread bigging up the "little magician" Giuly after drafting him.

 

[Moby]

Great tournament folks with a fitting final. I had Gio down as favourite from the very beginning but thought Theon would win it after he picked up Ronaldo.

My highlight was NM staring a thread bigging up the "little magician" Giuly after drafting him.

Yeah That was hilarious.

 

[Thisistheone]

Xavi can't be in there, his inclusion in the final cost his team the game!

Also, I'd have Stam instead of Vidic.

We don't know that for sure. Gio would still have won imo. But fair enough, I shouldn't have put Xavi in the team. Pirlo or Vieira would be better.

Hard to argue with your flop's team. Pretty spot on

 

[Fergus' son]

We don't know that for sure. Gio would still have won imo. But fair enough, I shouldn't have put Xavi in the team. Pirlo or Vieira would be better.

Hard to argue with your flop's team. Pretty spot on

Yeah, speaking from my point of view though, I would've voted Theon if Shev played ahead of Xavi, and I got that impression from a couple of other voters too...

 

[NM]

Great tournament folks with a fitting final. I had Gio down as favourite from the very beginning but thought Theon would win it after he picked up Ronaldo.

My highlight was NM staring a thread bigging up the "little magician" Giuly after drafting him.

Yeah That was hilarious.

You cnuts! He was one of my favorite players too. Realized you lot thought he was shit so tried to big him up! I firmly maintain that I would have gone a long way if I hadn't faced Theon in round 1

 

[Theon]

My highlight was NM staring a thread bigging up the "little magician" Giuly after drafting him.

That was absolutely brilliant

 

[Stobzilla]

I can't wait to go arse over tit and forget all the lessons learnt in this draft when we do the next one.

 

[Moby]

I can't wait to go arse over tit and forget all the lessons learnt in this draft when we do the next one.

Thinking of starting another one as it's still off season and a good time to get one done.

 

[Theon]

TEAM OF THE TOURNAMENT

Reasons:
BUFFON: EDogen had the most solid defence in the competition and Buffon was a large part of that - the best keeper of the era

MALDINI: A no brainer. Came into a leaky defence and dealt with Ronaldo in the quarter finals, dominated Van Persie in the semi's and then switched to left back to combat a ruthless Ronaldinho/Zanetti right flank. Without a doubt the only leftback capable of such a task.

FERDINAND: Immense. Dealt with Messi and Batistuta in the semi, Ronaldo in the final. Complimented well throughout the competition by the physical Montero and Vidic.

NESTA: Was huge for EDogen as the stalwart amid all his defensive tinkering with Hierro and Ferrara alternating. Came into the final and went toe to toe with a prime Messi in his best position.

CAFU: Cafu gave constant width in a team that desperately needed it. He was perfect for the diamond formation and it got the absolute best out of him.

PIRLO: Best midfielder in the tournament - given completely free reign with two dominant ball winners next to him Pirlo was able to dictate every game he played in.

KEANE: Ralaks picked Keano as his first pick and build the team around him in a brilliant 4-4-2. Dominated the midfield against teams with three centre mids and almost dragged Ralaks into the Semi Finals against an EDogen side boasting the likes of Zidane, Giggs and Nesta.

GIGGS: The best winger in the tournament and most potent attacking thread for EDogen.

RIVALDO: The outstanding performer in Gio's attacking midfield, who used him perfectly as a supporting striker. Partnered him with his World Cup 2002 teammate in Ronaldinho, before linking him up with Romario against Fergus in the Semi. Got the best out of a great player.

MESSI: The one everyone wanted to have and everyone feared. Wasn't at his absolute best as he was rarely in his best position, but still more than merits a place in this line up. One of the best players in the final during an epic battle with Nesta.

RONALDO: Fenómeno. Top scorer. The Player of the Tournament. No brainer. Played as an advanced striker thoughout the contest he linked up with Rui Costa and Figo, then Iniesa, Pirlo and Xavi to devastating effect. Whilst Messi gets the nod as the greatest player of the era when Ronaldo is used like this even the Argentine can't match him.


Under Rated Player of the Tournament

MAURO SILVA: A great pick up by Gio to increase the solidity of his team, as a 10th round pick he was one of the best in the entire draft. Used perfectly by Gio as a platform for the more creative players to express themselves. Went up against some of the best midfielders of the era and was never considered out his depth - be it Xavi for Nahealai, Scholes for Fergus or Iniesta in the final.

 

[Isotope]

Thinking of starting another one as it's still off season and a good time to get one done.

Count me in.