The Road Trip Draft R1: Indnyc vs willhse456

[harms]

Indnyc -----------------------VS----------------------willhse456​

Indnyc tactics

Formation: 4-3-3/4-5-1

Tactics: Attack, Attack, Attack!!! Play the United way with fast paced wingers and stretch the pitch

Attack : The opposition is most likely to play a diamond formation with no natural width except from the full backs. Would use this to my advantage and stretch the pitch with Giggs and Best. Charlton will make runs from the midfield and Law will drop deep making it difficult for the opposition center backs to mark him.

Giggs, Charlton, Best and Law are all great at scoring goals and taking shots from outside the box. The opposition Goalkeeper is significantly weaker than mine and even though he started the European cup finals for Madrid, he played only 50 odd games for them in a period of 5 years! This is a significant advantage given an all time context

Midfield :

Keane and Cambiasso form a great double pivot in the defensive phase of the game. Most of the attack for the opposition is central and both my midfielders will form a solid base for the defense. Additionally, Charlton will drop in deep and is expected to play a significant role in the midfield battle

Defence :

McGrath, Nasazzi and Fillol form a strong core. Nilton Santos is one of the all time greats and in Maicon we have someone who can provide width and be a strong presence in the defensive phase of the game. He was part of the great Mourinho Inter side that won the treble. He and Cambiasso formed a strong right side and their partnership will again be helpful in defending the right side.

Why we will win

1) Great attack - Best, Charlton, Law, Giggs is a breath taking front 4 who will score against the best of defenses.

2) Significantly better Goalkeeper especially considering an all time context

3) Strong Core: McGrath, Nasazzi, Keane and Cambiasso (Along with Charlton) will congest the central midfield and with the lack of proper width for the opposition, we expect to limit the influence of their key players

willhse456 tactics

General

I decided to build this team around one of the best ever no. 10's in Michel Platini. I believe that the players surrounding him play exactly to his strengths, which will help get the best out of him, and also the best out of others around him.

In defence, I have two extremely good fullbacks. Djalma is one of the GOAT right backs, and is defensively solid, as well as being capable of going forward. Antonio Cabrini is also a very good balanced full back, with no defensive flaws, and the ability to provide support in attack. In the middle I have Montero and Ferdinand. Ferdinand made defending look extremely easy, and one of my favourite United players that I've ever watched. He had incredible timing, and brilliant reading of the game, as well as being a fantastic passer of the ball. I've paired him with Montero, who has similarities with Vidic, in being the rugged/aggressor that complements Ferdinand perfectly. Great aerial ability, and very strong in the tackle, any forward would be intimidated by him

My midfield 3 are all tenacious and energetic. Vidal and Tigana will be all over the pitch, and they fit perfectly in this system, also able to pull out wide when the full backs get forward. Both of them have the passing ability to support Platini and the forwards, Tigana and Platini being a proven partnership that works. Cerezo will shuttle from side to side in front of the defence, sweeping away any attacks.

My attack will be able to cause some real damage. Platini has a very solid platform to wreak havoc, and will not have to worry about contributing defensively. He has the perfect 2 forwards to feed the ball to in Van Basten and Rummenigge. Van Basten, one of the best strikers ever, will love having Platini behind him, feeding him beautiful passes to take advantage of his brilliant finishing ability. Rummenigge will have a free role on the right hand side, and also cause damage with his pace and link up play. I made sure to play in a 4-3-1-2 as it allows Platini to also go forward and demonstrate his own great finishing abilities, as well as his obvious playmaking from deep.

Why I will win

• I think my midfield will have the upper edge (I expect Indnyc to lineup in a 4-2-3-1, with Keane and Cambiasso deep). I think Cambiasso will have a real problem handling Platini, and I don't think the midfield has the legs to keep up with Vidal, Cerezo and Tigana.
• Van Basten drifting in the space between Maicon and Nasazzi will cause so many problems. Maicon in an all time setting is way out of place.
• Djalma should handle Giggs fairly easily. I love Giggs, but he's up against one of the best here. This means Tigana shouldn't have to offer too much support out wide, meaning he can help cover Cerezo when dealing with Charlton, and also have plenty of opportunities to go forward and support Platini/Rummenigge.
• Vidal will pull out wide to help Cabrini cope with Best, the biggest threat from the other side. Best is obviously a great winger, but even good wingers struggle when they are constantly doubled up on.

Good luck, @Indnyc and @willhse456

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Minus Cambiasso that team is perfect

 

[willhse456]

Good luck @Indnyc

Indnyc has obviously tried to prey upon our bias here, with a good team full of United legends, however you must not let that influence your vote!

I can see van Basten having a lot of success in this game. He will be operating in the area between Nasazzi and Maicon, with which I expect goals with Platini feeding him. I expected Keane on that side in order to deal with that threat.

All 3 of my forwards, as well as being great finishers, have a very good level of link-up play too. It won't be a rigid 4-3-1-2, Platini will have freedom to roam, and Rummenigge will go out wide when the opportunity presents itself, so that Platini can showcase his own goalscoring ability. I don't see a plan for stopping him.

On the other hand, I can't see much coming from the opposition's left hand side. From what I've read, Nilton isn't a bombing wingback, and I don't think Giggs will get anything from his battle with Djalma. This then lets Tigana join in attacks, with Djalma providing some support.

 

[Himannv]

@Indnyc why would you not pick Scholes you frustrating basterd!

 

[Indnyc]

Good luck @willhse456

I’ll comment on the game in some time.. Need to get some work done

 

[Indnyc]

@Indnyc why would you not pick Scholes you frustrating basterd!

It’s because everyone jumped on fullbacks and I didn’t have a choice!

 

[willhse456]

@Indnyc why would you not pick Scholes you frustrating basterd!

I know this point relates to him not building a front 5 of United legends, but a larger point to this is that there is no real deep lying playmaker here. Keane and Cambiasso are very similar players. Both of them are good tacklers, but neither are particularly technical, and when getting hassled by Vidal, Tigana and Platini, I think they will struggle.

 

[Jim Beam]

Nice to see United attacking...

Will be a high tempo and a high scoring game, despite those defensive lines imo. I loved @willhse456 building during the draft, think he did really well to give Platini a solid platform to shine and catching that front two also.

I know this point relates to him not building a front 5 of United legends, but a larger point to this is that there is no real deep lying playmaker here. Keane and Cambiasso are very similar players. Both of them are good tacklers, but neither are particularly technical, and when getting hassled by Vidal, Tigana and Platini, I think they will struggle.

Disagree there. Both of them are technically very good and can go into the battle with that midfield of yours, especially with Charlton dropping deeper. Cambiasso is definitely underrated in that sense, he was capable of not just shielding the defense, but also being a solid all-around passer. Containing Platini is a different matter, though. As it is the case with Charlton on the other end.

A tough one.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Good luck @Indnyc

Indnyc has obviously tried to prey upon our bias here, with a good team full of United legends, however you must not let that influence your vote!

I can see van Basten having a lot of success in this game. He will be operating in the area between Nasazzi and Maicon, with which I expect goals with Platini feeding him. I expected Keane on that side in order to deal with that threat.

All 3 of my forwards, as well as being great finishers, have a very good level of link-up play too. It won't be a rigid 4-3-1-2, Platini will have freedom to roam, and Rummenigge will go out wide when the opportunity presents itself, so that Platini can showcase his own goalscoring ability. I don't see a plan for stopping him.

On the other hand, I can't see much coming from the opposition's left hand side. From what I've read, Nilton isn't a bombing wingback, and I don't think Giggs will get anything from his battle with Djalma. This then lets Tigana join in attacks, with Djalma providing some support.

Baffling statement

 

[Enigma_87]

Who is this Dominguez lad on goal for Will?

 

[willhse456]

Nice to see United attacking...

Will be a high tempo and a high scoring game, despite those defensive lines imo. I loved @willhse456 building during the draft, think he did really well to give Platini a solid platform to shine and catching that front two also.



Disagree there. Both of them are technically very good and can go into the battle with that midfield of yours, especially with Charlton dropping deeper. Cambiasso is definitely underrated in that sense, he was capable of not just shielding the defense, but also being a solid all-around passer. Containing Platini is a different matter, though. As it is the case with Charlton on the other end.

A tough one.

Perhaps you're right, however I think the big difference between the two teams is that I have a dedicated anchor in Cerezo, who will be on Charlton pretty much the whole game. Yes, he is not as good as Charlton, but with help from one of the other central midfielders, they may stand a chance at containing him.

Platini, on the other hand, doesn't really have anyone marking him. If Keane is given that job then, Cambiasso is exposed against Tigana and Vidal. If Cambiasso is given that job, I don't think he's good enough to contain him. If both end up helping out, then it leaves an awful lot of space for my central midfielders to push forward. I believe they all have the energy to go back and forth throughout the game.

 

[willhse456]

Who is this Dominguez lad on goal for Will?

In their consistent search for improvement, Real Madrid fixed their eyes on Latin America to find a goalkeeper who would compliment an already excellent squad. Domínguez, who stood out for various sides in the Argentinean league.

Domínguez's physique was imposing and that of a modern-day goalkeeper, standing at 1.90m tall with a slender frame. In the memories of The Whites' fans are his incredible saves, which, amongst other titles, helped the side win three leagues and three European Cups.

In his first season at Real Madrid he played with other Argentines, including Di Stéfano and Rial, with Carniglia as manager. His most important games include the finals of the fourth and fifth European Cup triumphs and the two encounters in the first Intercontinental Cup. He was a full international with Argentine. Died on 23 July 2004.

 

[harms]

Not the biggest fan of Djalma in a diamond formation. I think will is unlucky to face a team with Best and Giggs — they'll keep his fullbacks busy in defence and he doesn't have a lot of width-providers. Tigana and Vidal are also not going to move out wide in the attacking phase. But that Platini - van Basten - Rummenigge axis looks frightening!

For those who have nothing else to do — credit for all 3 vids goes to @Joga Bonito

McGrath has a good record against Van Basten, playing for an inferior team — 2 games, 0 goals from the Dutchman.

A friendly against a past his peak Platini in an off-balanced team, but still McGrath's performance is well worth a watch:

 

[willhse456]

Baffling statement

I don't think it is. Yes, we all love Giggs, I understand we're on RedCafe. He's up against one of the best right backs of all-time here though! I really don't think he would be that much of a threat to Djalma. Adding to that, Nilton isn't an overlapping wingback, in the same mould of Carlos or Marcelo, he contributed to build up play, but from what I've read I don't think you would find him near the box. Giggs will end up fairly isolated in this game.

 

[Jim Beam]

Perhaps you're right, however I think the big difference between the two teams is that I have a dedicated anchor in Cerezo, who will be on Charlton pretty much the whole game.

Yeah, on the paper it looks like it will be somewhat easier to contain Charlton. But, then you count that Charlton game was about dropping deeper and bombarding you from the long range or suddenly popping up and you can't really say there will be a dedicated anchor to him which will reduce his influence in that sense.

Btw. someone should really give you that 1 like, so you can have a proper debate and not like the last time that you have to count how many posts have you left.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

I don't think it is. Yes, we all love Giggs, I understand we're on RedCafe. He's up against one of the best right backs of all-time here though! I really don't think he would be that much of a threat to Djalma. Adding to that, Nilton isn't an overlapping wingback, in the same mould of Carlos or Marcelo, he contributed to build up play, but from what I've read I don't think you would find him near the box. Giggs will end up fairly isolated in this game.

The combination of a full flight Giggs and Nilton Santos is as frightening a left side as it gets.

You’re probably basing your opinion on niltons attacking prowess around his goal scoring record but it doest tell the story. He can own an entire flank by himself and now he has one of the UKs greatest left sided players ever, if not the.

 

[Gio]

Very even match-up. I thought both managers drafted well and you can see the various complementary partnerships shining.

 

[willhse456]

The combination of a full flight Giggs and Nilton Santos is as frightening a left side as it gets.

You’re probably basing your opinion on niltons attacking prowess around his goal scoring record but it doest tell the story. He can own an entire flank by himself and now he has one of the UKs greatest left sided players ever, if not the.

This isn't true. It keeps coming up in drafts, but he didn't "own" the flank in the same way that Cafu did.


If you watch this, he gets forward but rarely occupies the flank by the opposition box. He joins the midfield and tries to build up play from where Keane is roughly on the formation graphic. He also gives away a blatant penalty half way through

 

[Indnyc]

Good luck @Indnyc

Indnyc has obviously tried to prey upon our bias here, with a good team full of United legends, however you must not let that influence your vote!

I can see van Basten having a lot of success in this game. He will be operating in the area between Nasazzi and Maicon, with which I expect goals with Platini feeding him. I expected Keane on that side in order to deal with that threat.

All 3 of my forwards, as well as being great finishers, have a very good level of link-up play too. It won't be a rigid 4-3-1-2, Platini will have freedom to roam, and Rummenigge will go out wide when the opportunity presents itself, so that Platini can showcase his own goalscoring ability. I don't see a plan for stopping him.

On the other hand, I can't see much coming from the opposition's left hand side. From what I've read, Nilton isn't a bombing wingback, and I don't think Giggs will get anything from his battle with Djalma. This then lets Tigana join in attacks, with Djalma providing some support.

Some points to address here

1. Van Basten and Rummenigge are significant threats but definitely McGrath and Nasazzi are upto the threat. Maicon was part of one of the great Mourinho sides and was no mug. In fact, Maicon was voted Uefa defender of the year in 2009/2010 and Nilton Santos is arguably in the top 5 left backs of all time.
2. For Platini, you are right that we don't have a dedicated marker but more of a zonal marking. Cambiasso and Keane will handle the area with help from Charlton ( Not double team but zonally cover the space for Vidal/Platini/Tigana)
3. We don't have a deep lying playmaker but we don't need that. The idea is to stretch the pitch and go wide. Keane and Cambiasso are perfectly suited to move the ball quickly to Best/Giggs/Santos/Maicon
4. The bolded part is just wrong. Djalma is a great defender but Giggs is a great winger as well. We expect a good old tussle there which would limit Djalma's influence in the attacking phase. Add that you don't have a dedicated winger, Maicon can push on much more than Djalma can do

 

[Indnyc]

This isn't true. It keeps coming up in drafts, but he didn't "own" the flank in the same way that Cafu did.


If you watch this, he gets forward but rarely occupies the flank by the opposition box. He joins the midfield and tries to build up play from where Keane is roughly on the formation graphic. He also gives away a blatant penalty half way through

I don't need him to own the flank. His role is similar to what Irwin did for us. Perfectly capable of doing that.. Again the fact that we don't have a dedicated winger on him from that side gives him some more freedom

 

[harms]

I don't think it is. Yes, we all love Giggs, I understand we're on RedCafe. He's up against one of the best right backs of all-time here though! I really don't think he would be that much of a threat to Djalma.

Thuram didn't stop him from scoring 2 goals in 2003, for example. And personally, I'd rate him (Thuram) ahead of Djalma.

I seem to be only defending Indnyc team though, sorry. That's what you get for a team full of United legends

 

[Indnyc]

Who is this Dominguez lad on goal for Will?

A guy who played 50 times for Madrid in 5 seasons. His claim to fame is he was the starter in two of the champions league for Madrid but he is nowhere near the quality of Fillol. Sticks out as a sore thumb especially in an all time context

 

[Enigma_87]

@willhse456,

Cheers. Don't know much about him to be fair, neither really paid attention to him when watching the old games. Considering how Real always prioritized the rest of the pitch and GK last I'd probably rate him at around Navas/Valdes level in this case.

 

[Indnyc]

@harms and @Joga Bonito appreciate the videos on McGrath. I was going to bring up his record against Van Basten but to be fair 2 games is a small sample size

He does stack up nicely to Van Basten though

 

[Enigma_87]

This isn't true. It keeps coming up in drafts, but he didn't "own" the flank in the same way that Cafu did.


If you watch this, he gets forward but rarely occupies the flank by the opposition box. He joins the midfield and tries to build up play from where Keane is roughly on the formation graphic. He also gives away a blatant penalty half way through

You have to take into account the era tho. Nilton was one of the few that bombed forward at the time. Brazil were first to implement a back four in the middle to late 50's and Nilton and to not such extend Djalma were the pioneers in that respect and you can't really compare it to a modern full back considering the evolution of tactics in the last 50 years since then.

 

[Enigma_87]

Not the biggest fan of Djalma in a diamond formation. I think will is unlucky to face a team with Best and Giggs — they'll keep his fullbacks busy in defence and he doesn't have a lot of width-providers. Tigana and Vidal are also not going to move out wide in the attacking phase. But that Platini - van Basten - Rummenigge axis looks frightening!

Yup my take on the game as well.

Djalma can support the attack in a 4-3-3 but in a diamond and especially against Nilton/Giggs flank he'd probably be overwhelmed and pinned back most of the time.

Kalle can peel wide, but in a 4-4-2 he'd probably spend more time centrally and looking for spaces just off van Basten.

It's a very even match up. That Maicon/Best flank also looks frightening considering Cabrini is the main provider of width on the left and Montero isn't ideally the CB I'd want to cover for him against Best.

On the other hand Will's attacking trio is very complimentary and can decide the game on its own.

 

[Indnyc]

Minus Cambiasso that team is perfect

A wonderful article on Cambiasso https://thesefootballtimes.co/2017/09/11/a-journey-through-time-the-career-of-esteban-cambiasso/

Don't want to post the entire thing but a quote by Mourinho seems apt here

Cambiasso played at the fulcrum. A commanding warrior whose craft, guile and industry first helped Roberto Mancini break Italy’s duopoly, before elevating José Mourinho’s men to conquer Europe. “I won the treble with Cambiasso,” said a gleeful Mourinho to TheIndependent back in 2015, “he belongs to my golden team.” He commandeered the pitch much like a prize conductor leads his orchestra, each player dancing to Cuchu’s masterful beat. His presence was their baton, the ball their metronome, and cunning yet deadly counter-attacks their symphony.

 

[Indnyc]

Yup my take on the game as well.

Djalma can support the attack in a 4-3-3 but in a diamond and especially against Nilton/Giggs flank he'd probably be overwhelmed and pinned back most of the time.

Kalle can peel wide, but in a 4-4-2 he'd probably spend more time centrally and looking for spaces just off van Basten.

It's a very even match up. That Maicon/Best flank also looks frightening considering Cabrini is the main provider of width on the left and Montero isn't ideally the CB I'd want to cover for him against Best.

On the other hand Will's attacking trio is very complimentary and can decide the game on its own.

His attacking trio is as good as it gets to be honest. Will be a tough game for any defense

 

[Indnyc]

Best, Law and Charlton having played together does give the team additional synergy. There is no question of super stars fitting together.

 

[Indnyc]

Always a good time to watch Best

 

[Physiocrat]

@Indnyc Any reason why Keane is LCM and Cambiasso RCM? I would have thought you would have put them the other way round since Keane was right footed and Cambiasso left footed.

 

[Physiocrat]

@willhse456

Can Tigana provide much width? I don't rate Djalma in providing width in a diamond. I could buy it if Tigana can support Kalle outwide but I've never seen anyone make that case with Tigana

 

[Indnyc]

@Indnyc Any reason why Keane is LCM and Cambiasso RCM? I would have thought you would have put them the other way round since Keane was right footed and Cambiasso left footed.

The main reason is to keep partnerships.. Cambiasso covered for Maicon at Inter when Maicon attacked

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@Indnyc Any reason why Keane is LCM and Cambiasso RCM? I would have thought you would have put them the other way round since Keane was right footed and Cambiasso left footed.

not you too with that BS

 

[Indnyc]

@willhse456

Can Tigana provide much width? I don't rate Djalma in providing width in a diamond. I could buy it if Tigana can support Kalle outwide but I've never seen anyone make that case with Tigana

Honestly, that’s stretching it.. Don’t think it was Tigana’s game.. For the Magic Square to work you need someone like Amoros to provide width

 

[Gio]

@willhse456

Can Tigana provide much width? I don't rate Djalma in providing width in a diamond. I could buy it if Tigana can support Kalle outwide but I've never seen anyone make that case with Tigana

To be fair, my memory's a bit sketchy, but I recall Bordeaux played a diamond-style midfield four in the 1980s, with Giresse at the tip and Tigana working box-to-box in the RCM role. He had the legs to do it. That was probably ahead of Battiston, who is quite similar to Djalma in style, and behind a foraging attacker who could pull wide to create space for Tigana to hit.

 

[willhse456]

@willhse456

Can Tigana provide much width? I don't rate Djalma in providing width in a diamond. I could buy it if Tigana can support Kalle outwide but I've never seen anyone make that case with Tigana

Even if he hasn't done it before, I think he definitely has the technical ability and the legs to do it whilst still being a presence tracking back on the transition. I'll have a look around later when I get back home if I can find any highlights.

People are saying that Giggs pins Djalma back, but football doesn't work like that in reality, and Djalma will have plenty of chances to support the midfield.

I think if people are making the case for Nilton being an attacking fullback, which I don't think is the case, then Djalma has to have some credit there as he did a very similar job on the right hand side.

 

[Himannv]

In a diamond you'd expect the LCM and RCM to help their fullbacks a bit, so it's Tigana + Djalma vs Giggs + Nilton. The other flank seems hard to defend as well with Best + Maicon vs Cabrini + Vidal. In general I think both wingbacks need a bit of support considering the sort of attack they're facing on the flanks. This might just leave a bit of space for Keane and Scholes erm Cambiasso to get more of a foothold in the midfield.

On the other hand, Platini seems completely unmarked, which is bound to be suicidal.

Probably going with Indnyc due to United bias despite the disappointing lack of Scholes.

 

[Indnyc]

In a diamond you'd expect the LCM and RCM to help their fullbacks a bit, so it's Tigana + Djalma vs Giggs + Nilton. The other flank seems hard to defend as well with Best + Maicon vs Cabrini + Vidal. In general I think both wingbacks need a bit of support considering the sort of attack they're facing on the flanks. This might just leave a bit of space for Keane and Scholes erm Cambiasso to get more of a foothold in the midfield.

On the other hand, Platini seems completely unmarked, which is bound to be suicidal.

Probably going with Indnyc due to United bias despite the disappointing lack of Scholes.

Platini isn't unmarked though.. I mentioned earlier that we are doing a zonal defense so both Keane and Cambiasso should be managing that zone

 

[Indnyc]

Even if he hasn't done it before, I think he definitely has the technical ability and the legs to do it whilst still being a presence tracking back on the transition. I'll have a look around later when I get back home if I can find any highlights.

People are saying that Giggs pins Djalma back, but football doesn't work like that in reality, and Djalma will have plenty of chances to support the midfield.

I think if people are making the case for Nilton being an attacking fullback, which I don't think is the case, then Djalma has to have some credit there as he did a very similar job on the right hand side.

Nilton was the more attacking of the two.. Regardless, I don’t need Nilton to provide width but support Giggs which is the perfect role for him.

Djalma will support the midfield but he wouldn’t be able to be your primary width provider that you need for the formation to work