The saddest thing about our current situation...

padzilla

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Is that Ole is going to be remembered by a generation of fans, maybe more, as the poster boy for ineptitude when he should be remembered as an absolute legend of a player for the club.
I spoke about this with a Liverpool supporting mate and he said that's how Graeme Souness is seen by most fans. If Ole was to leave in the coming weeks is his legacy ruined?
Apologies for starting another thread, I just thought it might be worth a separate discussion about at which point do club legends run out of currency in terms of good will with supporters.
 
His legacy is of course being tarnished. If he overstays his welcome then of course it takes a bigger hit than it already has. He has a responsibility to do what's best for Man United as well. In every line of work, people should have some self respect to know when they are fecking incompetent and to find yourself something that suits you more. Trying hard isn't enough to make it acceptable, he's not a fecking child we're trying to make happy.
 
My quiz mate is a big Everton fan and said I could understand this acceptance at our club but this is Utd and you should not be accepting any lowering of standards at a club as big as yours that's for sure
 
padzilla said:
Is that Ole is going to be remembered by a generation of fans, maybe more, as the poster boy for ineptitude when he should be remembered as an absolute legend of a player for the club.
I spoke about this with a Liverpool supporting mate and he said that's how Graeme Souness is seen by most fans. If Ole was to leave in the coming weeks is his legacy ruined?
Apologies for starting another thread, I just thought it might be worth a separate discussion about at which point do club legends run out of currency in terms of good will with supporters.
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I'd say he's tarnishing his legacy across all generations, not just one
 
This is true. It's easy to say, the player & the manager are two different things - but they are the same individual. It's hard to separate them.

I can see the club trying to distance themselves from Solskjaer when they do finally move on, at least for the next 5-6 years. They'll eventually want to put this era behind them, when they do realise he wasn't up to much.
 
Thing is - he wouldn't run this risk if he had resigned after the Liverpool debacle. If we assume he loves the club, the only logical conclusion is that he is deluded.
 
My bother is a Liverpool supporter (I speak to him at Christmas and his birthday) and he hates Souness with a passion for exactly that reason. He's old enough to remember the coach but not the player.

I still have a soft spot for Ole but I can't listen to or watch his press conference or post match. It makes my blood boil. The same crap over and over.

It's like a lame horse in the Derby, would someone just take him out and shoot him!!
 
The Souness in Liverpool fans eyes thing is absolutely true. I went to an after dinner function over 10 years ago where Bruce Grobbelaar was the speaker. Someone asked him about Souness and immediately talked about him as Liverpool manager. I got the feeling Bruce was absolutely not a fan and he carefully worded what he said but basically he said Souness was shit in the nicest way possible.

Asked my mate who is a Liverpool fan about it since I thought Souness was revered, but he said the manager stint was so bad it overrid any memories of the playing career.
 
Said this before. The more he shows how inept he is the more his legend status is eroded, it will be a sad day when the fans turn on him. He is our Lampard, loved by fans due to his past playing glories.
 
I actually don't think it will effect his status.

What he did in the past was as a player, what he is doing now is as a manager - totally different.
 
I don't think the Souness comparison holds up to be honest. Because while he was a brilliant footballer (much better than Ole was for example) in a quite brilliant team, he hasn't got his name all over the greatest moment in his clubs history. Nobody will ever take that away from Ole, it is impossible to talk about the greatest single moment in our history without mentioning him.
 
lefty_jakobz said:
Said this before. The more he shows how inept he is the more his legend status is eroded, it will be a sad day when the fans turn on him. He is our Lampard, loved by fans due to his past playing glories.
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Lampard was lucky enough to be sacked before he made it any worse.
 
The saddest thing is there is no chance he is getting sacked until at the very least the end of the season.

The Board have decided that Fergie turned things around after three years so Ole will do the same and nothing is going to change that stance
 
JB7 said:
I don't think the Souness comparison holds up to be honest. Because while he was a brilliant footballer (much better than Ole was for example) in a quite brilliant team, he hasn't got his name all over the greatest moment in his clubs history. Nobody will ever take that away from Ole, it is impossible to talk about the greatest single moment in our history without mentioning him.
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This is exactly why. You are not old enough to remember the greatest single moment in our history. It was winning the EC the first time. The first English club to do so.
 
JB7 said:
I don't think the Souness comparison holds up to be honest. Because while he was a brilliant footballer (much better than Ole was for example) in a quite brilliant team, he hasn't got his name all over the greatest moment in his clubs history. Nobody will ever take that away from Ole, it is impossible to talk about the greatest single moment in our history without mentioning him.
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But will that moment itself get stained if its associated with him?
 
I will remember Ole as a manager who was cheered by opposing fans. It's very sad, but that's what he made of himself.

Stupid Ole's at the wheel chant still rings in my head.
 
The saddest thing is not that he's not sacked yet. It's that him not being sacked post the Liverpool result and this City performance would be a benchmark for us for future managers as well.

Irrespective of whatever happens in the future, our next manager, whenever they come under pressure, will always have that comfort zone that 'Ole wasn't sacked post 5-0 at OT' so this can't be worse than that. Or that the measures of success, which have already been lowered, will fall further. And that's how serial winners become has-beens.
 
He deserves it and can blame no one but himself. If he was thinking about anything other than himself he would step aside like other legends at other clubs have done. He chooses to stay, he chooses to make the same illogical decisions he makes week in week out. If it tarnishes his legacy it's on him.
 
Do you think Argentine people changed their views on Maradona after he crashed their national team as a manager?

It's pretty easy to distinguish for most.
 
Bosnian_fan said:
I will remember Ole as a manager who was cheered by opposing fans. It's very sad, but that's what he made of himself.

Stupid Ole's at the wheel chant still rings in my head.
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Genuinely think that chant is cursed.

We started to play shit in his first season when that song was made - then we stopped signing it and performances got a lot better through the 2nd season.

Now it's started again in the 3rd year and it all went wrong again. STOP SINGING THAT BLOODY SONG
 
JebelSherif said:
I actually don't think it will effect his status.

What he did in the past was as a player, what he is doing now is as a manager - totally different.
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I'm not so sure anymore. If he lingers and we continue to regress beyond our levels of embarrassment then it'll do his reputation permanent damage IMO. He'll be seen as a symbol of the mates FC stranglehold over the club that will have taken us back years. Gary Neville is already doing his best to flush his legacy down the crapper, I fear Ole will join him if he's not off soon.
 
padzilla said:
Is that Ole is going to be remembered by a generation of fans, maybe more, as the poster boy for ineptitude when he should be remembered as an absolute legend of a player for the club.
I spoke about this with a Liverpool supporting mate and he said that's how Graeme Souness is seen by most fans. If Ole was to leave in the coming weeks is his legacy ruined?
Apologies for starting another thread, I just thought it might be worth a separate discussion about at which point do club legends run out of currency in terms of good will with supporters.
Click to expand...

Think this is very dependent on the age of the fan.

Fans in the agegroup 15-25 will only have memories of Ole the manager and let that fester. Fans in the older category will be able to separate the two down the line, but of course for a lot of people rational thought and more importantly calmness has gone out the window and the order of the day is anger.
 
The saddest thing about our current situation is the fact that there are no massive organised demonstrations to get the Glazers out. You can't have a club run by cash monkeys whose expectations are just to finish top 4 and then seriously wonder why all we do is finish top 4 and are not winning stuff.
 
The saddest thing about this whole situation is the constant new versions of the same sort of thread........
 
There was a point when he could have left with his reputation enhanced and would have been remembered as doing an OK job at United. Might well have seen further offers come in after that, although not at the same level as United.

If the board knew what it was doing they would have sacked him or come to a 'mutual' parting of ways after the Villarreal Europa final loss. I know we finished second, but it was a very average season, at best. This might have allowed them to put someone better suited in charge of the next part of the 'cultural reboot'.

As it stands now things are so bad he could be badly tarnished forever, and it's just prolonging everyone's pain. We'd need to win every game, convincingly, from here until at least the start of February for me to change my mind. I hope it happens, but it won't.
 
Foxbatt said:
This is exactly why. You are not old enough to remember the greatest single moment in our history. It was winning the EC the first time. The first English club to do so.
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That's your opinion and that is fine, no I'm not old enough to remember 68. But I was around for 99, which my parents, grandparents, friends of grandparents etc have all told me 99 was their best moment supporting us as we had reached the pinnacle.

Now, I very carefully referred to it as the "greatest single moment" in an attempt to avoid this argument, regardless of whether your preference is 68, 99, 08 or anything else, I refer to the single moment of a 93rd minute goal to win the European Cup final.
 
Moby said:
Do you think Argentine people changed their views on Maradona after he crashed their national team as a manager?

It's pretty easy to distinguish for most.
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Comparing the two is ridiculous.
Maradona is one of the best player ever and won by himself two world cups to his country.
Ole was a benchwarmer who scored coming from the bench…There was at least 5 players from that team that I consider more as legends then him : Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Neville, Stam, Schmeichel.
 
This won't ruin his legacy. Fans are fickle, the minute his sacking is announced, the same people spitting bile at him will be looking back and saying 'I never said it was ALL bad...'.

Slightly different, but I was mega-critical of Rooney during his final couple of years as a player for us, but I never questioned his character or commitment, it was solely about his footballing ability (or lack thereof) and once he left, it was like a release and I could just go back to remembering him as the player he was in his prime and the trophies he delivered for the club.
 
I actually don't think it will affect his legacy, at least not in my eyes. Remember, he came in during one of our darkest period and steadied the ship. He built one of the most likeable squad that I can remember.

Yes, he may not be a good manager, but he is doing his best and the ire should be directed at the higher ups for no contingency planning. What do you expect him to do? Ole may really believe he can still turn around, not many people have this self awareness that what he is doing is not working. You can even argue that if he does have that self awareness, we may not even be in this position as he may already bring in help in terms of more experience coaches.

We can criticize his ability as a manager but he has done enough for me to never disrespect him. I hope we bring in a care-taker soon as his position from all rumors seems untenable. Summer is a long time away and other candidates might be available. Who knows Tuchel might get sack for some stupid reason and may be available during summer.
 
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JB7 said:
That's your opinion and that is fine, no I'm not old enough to remember 68. But I was around for 99, which my parents, grandparents, friends of grandparents etc have all told me 99 was their best moment supporting us as we had reached the pinnacle.

Now, I very carefully referred to it as the "greatest single moment" in an attempt to avoid this argument, regardless of whether your preference is 68, 99, 08 or anything else, I refer to the single moment of a 93rd minute goal to win the European Cup final.
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It's all about perspective though isn't it? You were old enough for 99 to be the greatest moment in the clubs history and discount 68.

There's going to be lots of fans growing who weren't old enough to see 99, but will remember Solskjaer as the man in charge for the clubs most humiliating defeat.
 
Skills said:
It's all about perspective though isn't it? You were old enough for 99 to be the greatest moment in the clubs history and discount 68.

There's going to be lots of fans growing who weren't old enough to see 99, but will remember Solskjaer as the man in charge for the clubs most humiliating defeat.
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Literally read the second line of the post you quoted. I discounted nothing at all.
 
Foxbatt said:
Lampard was lucky enough to be sacked before he made it any worse.
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Ole is making it worse week in week out. If Ronaldo wasnt here to score the goals we’d be lower end of the table and looking at a CL group exit already.
 
I'll remember him as a club legend no matter what, because that's what he is. Gave me the greatest moment of my life as a football supporter, one that will never be beaten. If he ultimately fails here as a manager, then in the short term it's disappointing but in the long term so fecking what?
 
Moby said:
Do you think Argentine people changed their views on Maradona after he crashed their national team as a manager?

It's pretty easy to distinguish for most.
Click to expand...

Usually I'd agree but when I read all the vitriol towards Solskjaer on here the last few months. I'm honestly not so sure anymore.
 
3 years ago we would think of the song 'who put the ball in the german net' and think fondly of Ole
Now to the older generation we will still remember that, but it will be tarnished by his managerial incompetance and every set of away fans singing 'Ole's at the wheel', as they take us to the cleaners.
 
I'm not sad about that. I think the saddest thing is that there is no obvious way out of this. The club is a mess. A whole lot of them need to go including Carrick etc. And Fletcher is technical director?! We are supposed to be an elite club, where are his credentials. No, the saddest thing is how we have fallen under Glazer ownership and how deep the hole we are in is.

Ole's status is the least of our worries right now. He has a legacy as a super sub and that's great - wonderful memories. But right now he is dramatically out of his depth. And he knows it. This should be a "mutual consent" kind of departure ASAP.

Maybe he is hanging in for the pay off. And why not I guess, it's the glazers money but he needs gone and I'm not too bothered about his legacy at the moment, only the future of the club.

He will be remembered and loved as a player for what he done and so he should. For those that don't remember or know, why would they?

EDIT: also he should be thanked for what he has done for the club as manager, a lot has improved but he's a spent force now.
 
His legacy will be as divided as is his current situation as manager. He is not as bad as some would have, nor is he as good as some maintain. In many ways his managing career reflects his playing career. He was a great goal scorer but never quite good enough to be United permanent main striker, he was the ‘super’ sub. He is a good manager (thinking soft skills here) but not an elite manager.
 
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