The Search for a Midfielder

Discussion in 'Transfer Forum' started by MyOnlySolskjaer, Feb 1, 2018.

  1. Mar 30, 2018

    Klippity New Member

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    Money isn't really an issue for United though.

    Your profit is so vast, you can spend loads and easily comply with FFP - unlike City for example and certainly most, if not all other clubs.

    I agree with you, that ideally you'd buy younger players who can play for many years. But if any team can cope with high wages, high fee & an older player it's Manchester United.

    Not sure money is factored much into the club decisions - hence signing Sanchez for the vast wages, given his age - not mentioning the fee.

    Manchester United are perfect for Mourinho in that regard, as they can finance his short term buys.

    But is Mourinho right for Manchester United? That's a difference debate I guess. I can clearly see how you think.
  2. Mar 30, 2018

    Alabaster Codify7 Full Member

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    This is what worries me, bigtime. There will be players available who, if the stars align, could be here for 5-10yrs playing at a really high level. But you just know Jose will not go for them, he'll sign Vidal, I absolutely guarantee it. The more I think about it, the more it makes perfect sense for him - he's already peaked, has a connection with Sanchez and was part of that Juventus midfield that saw Pogba looking immense. On paper, Jose will think he's the perfect CM signing when in reality, he'll come here with niggling injuries, a supposed drink problem and a waning level of talent - someone with his style of play will drop in form massively given his age, his injuries and his lifestyle outside of football. It would be a suicidal transfer. But I just know Jose and Woodward will think it's the way to go.
  3. Apr 1, 2018

    MyOnlySolskjaer Creator of Player Performance threads

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    Oğuzhan Özyakup looks like a hidden gem.

  4. Apr 1, 2018

    Regulus Arcturus Black Full Member

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    The second pass in that vid is a complete feck up :lol:
  5. Apr 1, 2018

    Garethw scored 25-30 goals a season as a right footed RW

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    This is my worry with Mourinho. I expect us to sign Vidal and Bale.

    When Mourinho decides to feck off (probably next summer) the next manager is going to have a huge rebuild to undertake again to replace Matic, Sanchez, Young, Valencia and probably Vidal and Bale within the first couple of years of his reign.

    It’s short termism of the highest order.
  6. Apr 1, 2018

    Regulus Arcturus Black Full Member

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    My load, "short termism"...

    Bailly 23
    Lindelöf 23
    Lukaku 24
    Pogba 25

    But hell, let's bang on about top drawer experience like Sanchez and Matic, I mean, SAF never bought these kind of players around 28-29.

    And then you throw in the wingers/fullbacks he inherited and make up a couple of big name signings as if to make a point? The mind boggles.
  7. Apr 1, 2018

    Garethw scored 25-30 goals a season as a right footed RW

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    If you got your nose out of Joses backside for just five minutes you’d see that my concerns are actually shared by a large number of fans.

    I included Young and Valencia because they are Mourinho’s first choice fullbacks and I can’t see him selling either one any time soon.

    At least 50% of Mourinho’s signings have been expensive short term fixes.

    I’m all for signing quality experienced players but if the rumours are true and Bale and Vidal are his top transfer targets then that is the very definition of short termism. Especially when you consider that a 22 year old Martial will probably be sold to fund the Bale transfer.
  8. Apr 1, 2018

    VorZakone What would Kenny G do?

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    Some suggestions:
    - Jorginho
    - Villarreal's Rodri
    - Milinkovic-Savic
    - Doucoure
    - Thomas Partey
    - Fabinho
    - Will Hughes
    - Karol Linetty?
    - Krychowiak (can he rejuvenate his career under Mourinho?)
  9. Apr 1, 2018

    Regulus Arcturus Black Full Member

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    Just because they are shared by some other fans doesn't mean they hold any weight in reality.

    Looking now, Zlatan was a cracking short term signing that helped install a winning spirit, got us some trophies and helped us get back into the CL. Getting anyone else of that class when we were out of the CL would have been a nightmare, plus, we needed to spend big in other areas, such as getting Pogba and it was great to hold off a year before having to spend big on a striker.
    Being back in the CL then allowed us to attract Lukaku who had been angling for a move to a CL club for 18 months or so. Our other option for replacing Zlatan was the 25 year old Morata.

    So looking at those signings as anything other than good planning is plain wrong. That's looking to the future.

    So count out Zlatan who was a) free b) a roaring success and c) already replaced by a 24 yr old and you can see that we have brought in Bailly 23, Lindelöf 23, Pogba 25 and Lukaku 24.

    We have gotten rid of Rooney, Carrick, Schweinsteiger (Fellaini also likely to leave) and have replaced this experience with younger experienced players/winners:

    Matic 28 -> Carrick 36
    Sanchez 29 -> Rooney 32

    So that's "at least 50% of Mourinho’s signings have been expensive short term fixes." is it? What the actual feck. Who was expensive? who was "short term".

    Surely you see that calling out Mourinho for being short-termist at this point is absolute bollocks right? The fullbacks mention is bizarre, he's dealing with what he has and has had other more important areas to strengthen since joining. I have zero doubts that he'll bring in a fullback or two around the 25 year old mark this summer.

    So even if he then did buy Vidal and Bale... what's the problem @Garethw? The age of the squad is decreasing, not fecking increasing.
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
  10. Apr 1, 2018

    haram Full Member

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    Really would not go near anyone in that West Brom team at all.
  11. Apr 1, 2018

    ovoxo Full Member

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    I feel like we may go for Fred or Seri and end up buying Ruben Neves next season provided he does well at Wolves.
  12. Apr 1, 2018

    Smores Full Member

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    Good post but i wouldn't bother. There's a handful of posters who go thread to thread spouting the same old narratives born more of tantrum than logic. It's amusing now that a player in their late 20s is apparently done.

    There's absolutely nothing wrong with our business in terms if age range, its been sensible but Martial and Shaw aren't starting so Jose must hate youth :houllier:
  13. Apr 1, 2018

    DWelbz19 Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

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    I don't think the last 3 are good enough. Can't really comment on Rodrigo because I've never really seen him play.

    SMS is a superstar but I don't see where or how he fits. His Serie A compatriot is an interesting prospect and the one who sticks out on that list as a holding playmaking midfielder. But... I'm wary of Sarri's system adorning his talents, and him failing here due to being stark in contrast to ours. Heck, Jorginho said similar himself.

    If the price is right, Partey could be a really interesting prospect. Versatile, all-action midfielder with more emphasis on defensive work. Ditto(ish) to Doucoure and Fabinho, though the latter looks PSG bound, and the former is another midtable player who is a risk to see if he can make the step up.

    In all though, those names are just missing something. I think we need a central midfielder with a bit more... Someone who is mobile across the ground, but also very good in possession; both from a passing perspective and against the press/dribbling. Someone like Kovacic, Seri, or Fred would get the vote over a more industrial box-to-box workhorse who impacts more off the ball than on it.
  14. Apr 1, 2018

    Regulus Arcturus Black Full Member

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    In fact @Garethw, let's do a hypothetical. You'll enjoy this too @Smores I reckon.


    Possible guess at a starting 11 and age next season if you are correct about Vidal and Bale:

    DDG (27)
    Valencia (32) Lindelöf (24) Bailly (24) New fullback (25)

    Matic (29)
    Pogba (26) Vidal (30)
    Bale (28) Lukaku (25) Sanchez (30)

    Average age: 27.2
    Average age of City's starting 11 yesterday: 26.3 (which would jump up to 27.1 if Aguero had started instead of Jesus).
    Average age of Bayern's starting 11 yesterday that demolished Dortmund 6-0: 28.8

    Average age of United's CL winning starting 11 in 2008: 28.09*
    * fun fact, aside from the front 3 of Tevez, Ronaldo and Rooney, we didn't have another player under 27 in the side.
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
  15. Apr 1, 2018

    ash_86 Full Member

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    Good Post. Our buys/exchange transfers has been superb!
  16. Apr 1, 2018

    Regulus Arcturus Black Full Member

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    One final fun fact is that our cup final team in 2016, the team Mourinho inherited, had Martial 20 and Rashford 18 in it, and the average age was still 26.9.

    For all the shit Gareth and co wanna give him for being short-termist, he's done a cracking job of bringing that average age of the squad right down whilst swapping out ageing experience (Rooney, Carrick) with prime experience (Sanchez, Matic).
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
  17. Apr 2, 2018

    Icemav Full Member

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    Agreed about Partey. Looks a huge prospect and we should be looking closely. Could be perfect for us and and apart from his defensive work his build up play and passing looks very high quality.

    Not bothered at all about Fabinho. Think he is massively overrated.
  18. Apr 2, 2018

    Swift Football New Member

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    so, the older players in starting XI of those 3 teams - how many of those were bought when they were 28 or more. Or mostly those older players were in the squad from few years. Which of these 3 teams have bought the most players after they were 28 or more?

    If you are trying to draw the correlation between age and CL winning starting XI, that means feck all. What is more important is how many years do those players played together. Having few old players is actually good but you cannot overlook the fact that we cannot go back to square one after spending a lot in a particular position just 2/3 seasons back.
  19. Apr 2, 2018

    Regulus Arcturus Black Full Member

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    It’s a really good point you make in fairness.
    I was simply pointing that out it wouldn’t be the end of the World or short-termisim to have 6 of your starting eleven 27 years old or younger (5 of them bought by Mourinho) and three thirty plus players in that same starting 11, most successful teams have a similar age structure. I agree with you that it’s better when the players at 30+ have been in the club for a few years and that’s what we’ll hope for with Pogba, Lukaku, Bailly, Lindelöf in the future.

    The only important thing is that Mourinho is quite clearly bringing the age of the group down whilst replacing old creeking experience with prime experience. (Sanchez -> Rooney, Matic -> Carrick).
  20. Apr 2, 2018

    DWelbz19 Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

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    Dare it be said he can be our Essien? :wenger:
  21. Apr 2, 2018

    haram Full Member

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    A post with some sense :eek:

    It's funny the other guy mentions Valencia and Young like Mourinho probably isn't going to sign at least one new fullback. They are two players he inherited. Perhaps he should have Darmian as first choice instead then :rolleyes:.
  22. Apr 2, 2018

    Rossa Full Member

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    You are making far too much sense here. Great post! Furthermore, aren't we a little tired of hearing that players in their late twenties or early thirties are done? There's too much emphasis on age. You need both young players and experienced ones.
  23. Apr 2, 2018

    Cassidy No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser

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    Agree with this. I will say though Vidal worries me because that would be 2 important players in the midfield with a short shelf life (Matic and Vidal) as long as we also signed a younger protoge that would be ok. We need a midfield that we don't have to completely replace in 2/3 years.

    Keane Scholes Carrick are midfield that lasted over several years, and I think people underestimate that continuity in the engine room of the team and its importance.

    Personally I would prefer to buy someone a bit younger than Vidal for this reason since we already bought short term with Matic.

    I would prefer we spent money on an experienced CB since we have quite a bit of young talent there and the experienced players in that position are not up to scratch.

    In other worths no problem signing Alderweireld, would have an issue signing Vidal though
  24. Apr 2, 2018

    Rossa Full Member

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    I agree with Vidal. We have Matic, one might count Herrera going on last season, and then we have Pogba. Someone younger in midfield makes sense.

    I don't see the need for buying new centre backs to be honest. Smalling is good enough, and Bailly looks really promising, and now Lindelöf are showing promising signs as well.
  25. Apr 2, 2018

    Wedge Full Member

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    Cracking post couldn't agree more. Jose is replacing experience with ecpexperie but also adding younger players in to the mix, such as Lukaku, mctominay getting his chance and taking it. Then you see the likes of sanchez coming in replacing zlatans experience. Yes Jose has got to let the team flow a bit better but he wants the us against the world vibe with which we thrive on.
  26. Apr 2, 2018

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate Scout

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    If I may add something to that, when you look at the age of a team and at the short term vs long term, it's important to look at the roster in its entirety. You have to look at who is behind the starters and if they are meant to replace them in the near future.
    When you look at our team, it's not a huge problem to bring old attackers, it would be a bigger problem to bring old fullbacks and old CMs because we have no one behind our current players.
  27. Apr 2, 2018

    Klippity New Member

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    I think Manchester United are one club who shouldn't really care too much about players ages, wages or the short term as they have the resources to merely keep buying and cope the vast wages & fees.

    The only thing that would worry me as a United fan would be how some of these older players might be hindering some of your younger players development. Like Young playing regularly over Shaw. Or Sanchez maybe taking up Rashford's best position or game time.

    But I think if you have Mourinho as your manager he doesn't really do young players. So you just have to accept that.

    I think the above poster who showed with his team with Bale, Vidal in it that you don't need a revolution in your XI to improve and compete for the title. You're 2nd in the league and it's just that City have been so expectional you might have been in a title challenge still any other season.

    But next season is a massive season for Mourinho. But I fully expect you to improve in the summer. Will it be enough to topple City? You'd have to say that unlikely. But that goes for any of the other teams in the league. City are going to be one hell of a nut to crack.
  28. Apr 2, 2018

    golden_blunder Site admin. Manchester United fan Staff

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    Matics replacement is already in-house and gaining valuable experience from playing with him already - McTominay
  29. Apr 2, 2018

    Cassidy No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser

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    If you say so
  30. Apr 2, 2018

    golden_blunder Site admin. Manchester United fan Staff

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    Why not?
  31. Apr 2, 2018

    Bestietom Full Member

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    Experience mixed with young players is good. It is balance that is our problem still.
  32. Apr 2, 2018

    Cassidy No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser

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    I'll never say he can't be, but he has a long way to go to show he can replace Matic.
    I think he is a decent squad player and I don't see much past that from him for now, of course that can change.

    Tom Clevery is an example of a player who was here and did ok, but just didn't show the quality to be a top level player. I don't see top level potential on Scott but of course that can change.
  33. Apr 2, 2018

    RedSky likes to kick 10-year-olds Scout

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    Daniel Parejo would be a good fit for us. Not exactly a well known name but is having a very good season at Valencia and fits our requirement perfectly imo. He'd be perfect in a midfield 3 of Matic, Pogba.
  34. Apr 2, 2018

    ravi2 Full Member

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    I'd rather Jose go than us go for both bale and Vidal. Talk about a regressive approach
  35. Apr 2, 2018

    ayushreddevil9 Full Member

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    Yeah. But vidal and bale will spend more time on the sidelines
  36. Apr 2, 2018

    Cliche Guevara Full Member

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    Why are people going on as though Vidal is a crock? He’s played 38 games so far this season and played 48 last season.

    Is this what’s going to happen now, people lump Vidal and Bale together and create the narrative they’ll both be injured all the time?
  37. Apr 2, 2018

    Cloudface Full Member

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    There seems to be an ongoing effort to invent scenarios in order to be mad with Jose. At present it seems that Martial is going to be sold for tenth time this season in an attempt to confuse him to sign the contract Mourinho doesn't want him to have.
  38. Apr 2, 2018

    NikSab Anthony Martial's #1 fan

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    Lukaku, Bailly, Lindelof, Pogba, Lingard, McTominay...
  39. Apr 3, 2018

    Gordon S New Member

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    A lot of players start their decline in their early thirties tho. Some players have no problems playing at a high level well into their thirties, but i don't think it's that common?

    And i am personally a bit fed up after years of watching players like Rooney, Schweinsteiger, Carrick slowly cruise around the pitch like they've just left an all you can eat buffet.

    Of course we need a good blend in the squad, but the club needs to be careful when buying players in their thirties.
    When injuries and +30 collide things can go tits up really quick.
  40. Apr 3, 2018

    Rossa Full Member

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    Thing is, if you look at the Ballon d'Or list of nominees, you will notice that in the top ten there will usually be more candidates over 30 than under. It is far from uncommon that players are at their absolute best after thirty.

    I believe I read somewhere that males hit their absolute physical peak at 27, give or take, and that the downhill slope after is very slow. Rooney lost his footballing mojo. He carried extra weight and looked disinterested. Schweinsteiger I agree looked physically shot, but also carried extra weight. Carrick has played some of his best football after 30, so I certainly don't agree with him. Yes, you have to adapt a little as your energy at 30 is not the same as at 20, but that tweak can improve you as a player.

    With injuries, things can go tits up really badly for young players as well - look at Shaw.

    Fans moan that Shaw should play ahead of Young because he is the future. Well, the best player should play no matter the age. It would perhaps be foolish if we had bought Young as a replacement for Shaw, but as long as both are at the club, the best player should play. Also, Young matched, or even bettered, Salah for pace, so at 32 or so, he ain't too sluggish, and he was never our fastest player either. Navas, at 30 something rinsed Shaw for speed. Valencia has done the same with many 20 year olds.

    Whenever a player at 30+ has a poor spell, he is done for, lost a yard of pace etc. But there are so many examples where that is disproven, yet people still go on about it. There is simply too much emphasis on age. The best players should play, and then you also build for the future. Thus next year, for example, I would like us to either give TFM a chance to compete with Valencia or buy a replacement for Valencia and still promote TFM, but then Valencia needs to go. One up and coming talented young player and an established player (some times that can be the same player).

    Look at some of the world's best players in their positions: Luka Modric, Marcelo, Ronaldo, Messi, Suarez, Lewandowski, Ramos, Boateng. Sanchez probably had his best season ever last year at 28. Lingard is finding his feet at 25.