The slow and steady slide into total mediocrity

[fastwalker]

Just to recap, as it stands after seven games, United is closer to the bottom of the Premier League table than to the top. So far we have won nine points out of a possible 21.

At the current rate, over the course of a 38 game season, United would not even reach 50 points. For those of you wondering what 50 points buys you in the Premier League market place, well let me tell you; in 2018/19 50 points bought Watford an 11th place finish. In others words an 11th place finish buys you absolute mediocrity. The football equivalent of drift wood, utterly aimless and purposeless. At no real risk of relegation, but not even a remote likelihood of challenging for meaningful honours either.

What is happening at United is both tragic and inevitable. Since the departure of Sir Alex, United fans have become accustomed to a diet of mediocrity, that was initially served hot, then warm and now cold. We have gotten used to players signing for United not for the love of the badge, but rather to give half-hearted effort, whilst collecting massive salaries. Now we are slowly getting used to the tactical cluelessness masquerading as in-game management, by our management team. We are almost de-sensitized to it all.

The challenge facing United is greater than we can ever even imagine. Mediocrity is cultural, it is a mindset that affects habits and behaviours. Not just that, mediocrity is also viral. You do not buy your way out of mediocrity in the January or Summer transfer windows, you fight your way out of it by changing your habits and values.

Any thoughts?

 

[adexkola]

What do we, as posters on the Caf, do to arrest this slide?

 

[pat dunne]

We appoint a manager who fa

Just to recap, as it stands after seven games, United is closer to the bottom of the Premier League table than to the top. So far we have won nine points out of a possible 21.

At the current rate, over the course of a 38 game season, United would not even reach 50 points. For those of you wondering what 50 points buys you in the Premier League market place, well let me tell you; in 2018/19 50 points bought Watford an 11th place finish. In others words an 11th place finish buys you absolute mediocrity. The football equivalent of drift wood, utterly aimless and purposeless. At no real risk of relegation, but not even a remote likelihood of challenging for meaningful honours either.

What is happening at United is both tragic and inevitable. Since the departure of Sir Alex, United fans have become accustomed to a diet of mediocrity, that was initially served hot, then warm and now cold. We have gotten used to players signing for United not for the love of the badge, but rather to give half-hearted effort, whilst collecting massive salaries. Now we are slowly getting used to the tactical cluelessness masquerading as in-game management, by our management team. We are almost de-sensitized to it all.

The challenge facing United is greater than we can ever even imagine. Mediocrity is cultural, it is a mindset that affects habits and behaviours. Not just that, mediocrity is also viral. You do not buy your way out of mediocrity in the January or Summer transfer windows, you fight your way out of it by changing your habits and values.

Any thoughts?

iled at Cardi

Just to recap, as it stands after seven games, United is closer to the bottom of the Premier League table than to the top. So far we have won nine points out of a possible 21.

At the current rate, over the course of a 38 game season, United would not even reach 50 points. For those of you wondering what 50 points buys you in the Premier League market place, well let me tell you; in 2018/19 50 points bought Watford an 11th place finish. In others words an 11th place finish buys you absolute mediocrity. The football equivalent of drift wood, utterly aimless and purposeless. At no real risk of relegation, but not even a remote likelihood of challenging for meaningful honours either.

What is happening at United is both tragic and inevitable. Since the departure of Sir Alex, United fans have become accustomed to a diet of mediocrity, that was initially served hot, then warm and now cold. We have gotten used to players signing for United not for the love of the badge, but rather to give half-hearted effort, whilst collecting massive salaries. Now we are slowly getting used to the tactical cluelessness masquerading as in-game management, by our management team. We are almost de-sensitized to it all.

The challenge facing United is greater than we can ever even imagine. Mediocrity is cultural, it is a mindset that affects habits and behaviours. Not just that, mediocrity is also viral. You do not buy your way out of mediocrity in the January or Summer transfer windows, you fight your way out of it by changing your habits and values.

Any thoughts?

We appoint a manager who failed at Cardiff , badly , a first team coach who failed at Hull , badly and two others who have done nothing anywhere except at Utd reserves . Mediocrity is the best we can hope for . That management team are capable of getting us relegated

 

[HackeyC]

Doing the same things and expecting different results springs to mind but in appointing Ole the club has tried to break the pattern. Results on the pitch are not great but I look towards the positives:

De Gea,
Maguire
Wan Bissaka
James
Martial
McTominay
Tuanzebe

For me that is a great base to build upon. I've left out Pogba as I am guessing he leaves at the end of the season. The team is missing experienced leaders and I think we are 4 signings short of a quality squad but it is far from an unbridgeable gap.

 

[Beagle]

What do we, as posters on the Caf, do to arrest this slide?

Embrace it.

 

[fastwalker]

What do we, as posters on the Caf, do to arrest this slide?

That is a very good question. I have always believed that as fans we are far more powerful that we realise. The problem is, we behave like drug addicts in as much as the things we need to do to effect change we just won't do. Could you imagine what would happen if United fans boycotted a few home games each season, stopped buying shirts and merchandise etc? As a fanbase we must almost be willing to break United in order to fix it. Something that I really do support is the growth of the social media fan movement. For me this is the next great innovation in fandom and it will not be long before, you see fan channels starting to influence decision-making at boardroom level.

 

[Amerifan]

Just to recap, as it stands after seven games, United is closer to the bottom of the Premier League table than to the top. So far we have won nine points out of a possible 21.

At the current rate, over the course of a 38 game season, United would not even reach 50 points. For those of you wondering what 50 points buys you in the Premier League market place, well let me tell you; in 2018/19 50 points bought Watford an 11th place finish. In others words an 11th place finish buys you absolute mediocrity. The football equivalent of drift wood, utterly aimless and purposeless. At no real risk of relegation, but not even a remote likelihood of challenging for meaningful honours either.

What is happening at United is both tragic and inevitable. Since the departure of Sir Alex, United fans have become accustomed to a diet of mediocrity, that was initially served hot, then warm and now cold. We have gotten used to players signing for United not for the love of the badge, but rather to give half-hearted effort, whilst collecting massive salaries. Now we are slowly getting used to the tactical cluelessness masquerading as in-game management, by our management team. We are almost de-sensitized to it all.

The challenge facing United is greater than we can ever even imagine. Mediocrity is cultural, it is a mindset that affects habits and behaviours. Not just that, mediocrity is also viral. You do not buy your way out of mediocrity in the January or Summer transfer windows, you fight your way out of it by changing your habits and values.

Any thoughts?

Love your optimism and pride in your team. Keep up the good work.

 

[peridigm]

Just to recap, as it stands after seven games, United is closer to the bottom of the Premier League table than to the top. So far we have won nine points out of a possible 21.

At the current rate, over the course of a 38 game season, United would not even reach 50 points. For those of you wondering what 50 points buys you in the Premier League market place, well let me tell you; in 2018/19 50 points bought Watford an 11th place finish. In others words an 11th place finish buys you absolute mediocrity. The football equivalent of drift wood, utterly aimless and purposeless. At no real risk of relegation, but not even a remote likelihood of challenging for meaningful honours either.

What is happening at United is both tragic and inevitable. Since the departure of Sir Alex, United fans have become accustomed to a diet of mediocrity, that was initially served hot, then warm and now cold. We have gotten used to players signing for United not for the love of the badge, but rather to give half-hearted effort, whilst collecting massive salaries. Now we are slowly getting used to the tactical cluelessness masquerading as in-game management, by our management team. We are almost de-sensitized to it all.

The challenge facing United is greater than we can ever even imagine. Mediocrity is cultural, it is a mindset that affects habits and behaviours. Not just that, mediocrity is also viral. You do not buy your way out of mediocrity in the January or Summer transfer windows, you fight your way out of it by changing your habits and values.

Any thoughts?

Remind me what clubs like Watford, Crystal Palace, Newcastle, and West Ham get from their shirt sponsors? I think that might get the owners attention.

 

[fastwalker]

Love your optimism and pride in your team. Keep up the good work.

Ah optimism! That's when you get served steaming crap for dinner and say "hmmm that takes just filet mignon".

Bon appetit my friend.

 

[Jibbs]

All we need is addition of around 6 players to make this side title contender, but the signings should be spot on and for that even if we have to sell Pogba and De Gea to finance the purchases, we shouldn't think twice in doing that.

Assuming Matic and likely Pogba also leave in summer, we need three midfielders, because we haven't replaced Herrera yet and Fred looks far from settled.

We also need a quality striker, a right winger and a defender.

My picks would be Håland, Sancho and Ake.
For midfielders Neves / Ruiz , Fernandes / Ødegaard and Partey / Ndidi.

 

[Infra-red]

Just 9 more windows and we'll have a team that can finally challenge for 4th place.

 

[AlwaysRed66]

All we need is addition of around 6 players to make this side title contender, but the signings should be spot on and for that even if we have to sell Pogba and De Gea to finance the purchases, we shouldn't think twice in doing that.

Assuming Matic and likely Pogba also leave in summer, we need three midfielders, because we haven't replaced Herrera yet and Fred looks far from settled.

We also need a quality striker, a right winger and a defender.

My picks would be Håland, Sancho and Ake.
For midfielders Neves / Ruiz , Fernandes / Ødegaard and Partey / Ndidi.

We would not be title contenders under this manager, whoever we signed. He is not good enough.

 

[Stig]

I was always told that slow and steady wins the race -- so that's positive isn't it ?

 

[Cee90]

 

[Green_Red]

What do we, as posters on the Caf, do to arrest this slide?

Make pointless threads, driftwood of the caf if you will.

 

[Random Task]

The OP should come with a government health warning.

 

[fredrojo]

This is an interesting article from the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ester-united-arsenal-felt-like-mid-table-game

".......this is the fewest points United have had after seven games of a league season since then (1989). Such judgments are subjective, but this feels the weakest squad United have had since then, certainly relative to the rest of the league. It’s not necessarily straightforward to tell in the moment but back then there was a clear plan as Ferguson refashioned and professionalised the squad. Can anybody, looking at this squad, at the recent transfers in and out, honestly say they can see a clear policy?

Does anybody have any faith, even if fortunes are splurged, that things will be better in two transfer widows? In four? In six?

Football’s other great lie is that success is cyclical, as though if you’re big enough things will come good if you wait long enough.

Squads have cycles, it’s true, and whoever is in charge of long-term development, be that a manager or a sporting director, must manage the age profile of a team while fighting a constant war with entropy – but those are the details. There is also a macro picture and it’s that that must be of serious concern for United."

 

[Scholsey2004]

Doing the same things and expecting different results springs to mind but in appointing Ole the club has tried to break the pattern. Results on the pitch are not great but I look towards the positives:

De Gea,
Maguire
Wan Bissaka
James
Martial
McTominay
Tuanzebe

For me that is a great base to build upon. I've left out Pogba as I am guessing he leaves at the end of the season. The team is missing experienced leaders and I think we are 4 signings short of a quality squad but it is far from an unbridgeable gap.

Imo we're two quality playmakers short of being a good side, specifically a CAM and a right AM. They should have been bought in the summer but Ed ran out of time again. There's definite progress being made though in terms of the personnel.

 

[red thru&thru]

That is a very good question. I have always believed that as fans we are far more powerful that we realise. The problem is, we behave like drug addicts in as much as the things we need to do to effect change we just won't do. Could you imagine what would happen if United fans boycotted a few home games each season, stopped buying shirts and merchandise etc? As a fanbase we must almost be willing to break United in order to fix it. Something that I really do support is the growth of the social media fan movement. For me this is the next great innovation in fandom and it will not be long before, you see fan channels starting to influence decision-making at boardroom level.

Social media is surely important, we hear the like of Arnold mention it at every investors calls.

 

[Infra-red]

Social media is surely important, we hear the like of Arnold mention it at every investors calls.

Presumably the only reason Pogba is still at the club despite begging to leave for the best part of a year.

 

[red thru&thru]

This is an interesting article from the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ester-united-arsenal-felt-like-mid-table-game

".......this is the fewest points United have had after seven games of a league season since then (1989). Such judgments are subjective, but this feels the weakest squad United have had since then, certainly relative to the rest of the league. It’s not necessarily straightforward to tell in the moment but back then there was a clear plan as Ferguson refashioned and professionalised the squad. Can anybody, looking at this squad, at the recent transfers in and out, honestly say they can see a clear policy?

Does anybody have any faith, even if fortunes are splurged, that things will be better in two transfer widows? In four? In six?

Football’s other great lie is that success is cyclical, as though if you’re big enough things will come good if you wait long enough.

Squads have cycles, it’s true, and whoever is in charge of long-term development, be that a manager or a sporting director, must manage the age profile of a team while fighting a constant war with entropy – but those are the details. There is also a macro picture and it’s that that must be of serious concern for United."

People will always refer to Fergie's early years as an example to be patient. However, what people forget is, Fergie wasn't trying to rebuild a team, he was having to rebuild a whole club.

 

[red thru&thru]

Presumably the only reason Pogba is still at the club despite begging to leave for the best part of a year.

Maybe, I don't really know. But social media is massive.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

This is an interesting article from the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ester-united-arsenal-felt-like-mid-table-game

".......this is the fewest points United have had after seven games of a league season since then (1989). Such judgments are subjective, but this feels the weakest squad United have had since then, certainly relative to the rest of the league. It’s not necessarily straightforward to tell in the moment but back then there was a clear plan as Ferguson refashioned and professionalised the squad. Can anybody, looking at this squad, at the recent transfers in and out, honestly say they can see a clear policy?

Does anybody have any faith, even if fortunes are splurged, that things will be better in two transfer widows? In four? In six?

Football’s other great lie is that success is cyclical, as though if you’re big enough things will come good if you wait long enough.

Squads have cycles, it’s true, and whoever is in charge of long-term development, be that a manager or a sporting director, must manage the age profile of a team while fighting a constant war with entropy – but those are the details. There is also a macro picture and it’s that that must be of serious concern for United."

Don’t you think we are turning the corner though, James, Bissaka and Maguire building blocks, De Gea here for the foreseeable, obviously young’s days are numbered. We are looking for a top striker, apparently in for sancho, Maddison etc.

Just don’t need another manager with another direction IMHO

 

[fergiesarmy1]

People will always refer to Fergie's early years as an example to be patient. However, what people forget is, Fergie wasn't trying to rebuild a team, he was having to rebuild a whole club.

I really think we are there again, this isn’t the successful club I recognise and I was home and away in the fergie days so think I have some understanding of the similarities.

 

[Godfather]

Doing the same things and expecting different results springs to mind but in appointing Ole the club has tried to break the pattern. Results on the pitch are not great but I look towards the positives:

De Gea,
Maguire
Wan Bissaka
James
Martial
McTominay
Tuanzebe

For me that is a great base to build upon. I've left out Pogba as I am guessing he leaves at the end of the season. The team is missing experienced leaders and I think we are 4 signings short of a quality squad but it is far from an unbridgeable gap.

This is a great base? Lord help us.

 

[Infra-red]

Don’t you think we are turning the corner though, James, Bissaka and Maguire building blocks, De Gea here for the foreseeable, obviously young’s days are numbered. We are looking for a top striker, apparently in for sancho, Maddison etc.

Just don’t need another manager with another direction IMHO

We are worse this season than we were last season. It is possible that we need to take a step back before we can move forwards, but that is really nothing more than blind faith at this point.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

We are worse this season than we were last season. It is possible that we need to take a step back before we can move forwards, but that is really nothing more than blind faith at this point.

I’m ready to do that, those that aren’t are looking for short term gains for long term pain. Haven’t we sat, watched and laughed at Liverpool for the past 3 decades enough to not want history to repeat itself on us?

 

[Posh Red]

Just to recap, as it stands after seven games, United is closer to the bottom of the Premier League table than to the top. So far we have won nine points out of a possible 21.

At the current rate, over the course of a 38 game season, United would not even reach 50 points. For those of you wondering what 50 points buys you in the Premier League market place, well let me tell you; in 2018/19 50 points bought Watford an 11th place finish. In others words an 11th place finish buys you absolute mediocrity. The football equivalent of drift wood, utterly aimless and purposeless. At no real risk of relegation, but not even a remote likelihood of challenging for meaningful honours either.

What is happening at United is both tragic and inevitable. Since the departure of Sir Alex, United fans have become accustomed to a diet of mediocrity, that was initially served hot, then warm and now cold. We have gotten used to players signing for United not for the love of the badge, but rather to give half-hearted effort, whilst collecting massive salaries. Now we are slowly getting used to the tactical cluelessness masquerading as in-game management, by our management team. We are almost de-sensitized to it all.

The challenge facing United is greater than we can ever even imagine. Mediocrity is cultural, it is a mindset that affects habits and behaviours. Not just that, mediocrity is also viral. You do not buy your way out of mediocrity in the January or Summer transfer windows, you fight your way out of it by changing your habits and values.

Any thoughts?

Ironically I feel that we can look no further than Liverpool to see how our current situation could be potentially reversed. In my opinion the personality of Klopp was the catalyst for their rival, and we need a character equally as influential if we want to turn things around.

 

[RedCoffee]

The team is missing experienced leaders and I think we are 4 signings short of a quality squad but it is far from an unbridgeable gap.

The same old we only need 4 signings comes out at least once per day on the forum and has been doing the rounds now for 6 years.

The best thing we can do is sit tight for a couple of seasons, let Liverpool and City have their day and then come back fighting. I can’t see this club and the players come out fighting until it really starts to hurt which might be after Liverpool catch us on 20 or after City win the Champions League. The hunger just isn’t there no matter who we buy or who manages the team. It doesn’t look like returning for a while yet.

 

[fredrojo]

Don’t you think we are turning the corner though, James, Bissaka and Maguire building blocks, De Gea here for the foreseeable, obviously young’s days are numbered. We are looking for a top striker, apparently in for sancho, Maddison etc.

Just don’t need another manager with another direction IMHO

Can I make some observations from the view of an Aberdonian of a certain age (old!): the first is this - a manager like SAF will never be seen again, not in the modern age - all that hairdryer stuff, no chance - old men shouting at young lads - no way! They would be getting top lawyers in and complaining about their 'human rights!'* It has all changed.

The weirdest thing about the current (OGS) situation is this: how come he did so well prior to the PSG game? but how come he has done so poorly since then? The answer is quite simple: when he was first in post, the team were playing their hearts out to stick it to Jose Mourinho (an old-school type manager in my opinion) and get Ole the full-time job was a way to do that. But once Ole was installed as permanent manager they just thought 'job done' and players of championship calibre earning £220,000 per week (regular red cafe readers know who I mean) just started to turn up & go through the motions whilst raking in stupid money that means once their contract is up they are set for life, irrespective of what the club achieves in the meantime.

The solution? I have absolutely no idea - except this one: you need a manager with modern person-management skills and you need to assemble a squad where there is a mixture of older 'winners' and young guys who look up to them and try to match them, irrespective of the financial rewards. I don't think having a really young team as Utd. are trying to assemble will achieve that.

* https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/28/liverpool-bobby-duncan-deny-mentally-bullying-agent

 

[Infra-red]

I’m ready to do that, those that aren’t are looking for short term gains for long term pain. Haven’t we sat, watched and laughed at Liverpool for the past 3 decades enough to not want history to repeat itself on us?

Indeed we have and we've enjoyed every minute of it . This can at least comfort us during the long winter ahead...

 

[ivaldo]

Original thread. This will take the discuss in a totally new direction.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Can I make some observations from the view of an Aberdonian of a certain age (old!): the first is this - a manager like SAF will never be seen again, not in the modern age - all that hairdryer stuff, no chance - old men shouting at young lads - no way! They would be getting top lawyers in and complaining about their 'human rights!'* It has all changed.

The weirdest thing about the current (OGS) situation is this: how come he did so well prior to the PSG game? but how come he has done so poorly since then? The answer is quite simple: when he was first in post, the team were playing their hearts out to stick it to Jose Mourinho (an old-school type manager in my opinion) and get Ole the full-time job was a way to do that. But once Ole was installed as permanent manager they just thought 'job done' and players of championship calibre earning £220,000 per week (regular red cafe readers know who I mean) just started to turn up & go through the motions whilst raking in stupid money that means once their contract is up they are set for life, irrespective of what the club achieves in the meantime.

The solution? I have absolutely no idea - except this one: you need a manager with modern person-management skills and you need to assemble a squad where there is a mixture of older 'winners' and young guys who look up to them and try to match them, irrespective of the financial rewards. I don't think having a really young team as Utd. are trying to assemble will achieve that.

* https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/28/liverpool-bobby-duncan-deny-mentally-bullying-agent

I like old school opinions, not sure what yours is though apart from we won’t see a fergie again.

Ole is the best option I have seen since then and doesn’t really care about money so what a player makes is of no consequence to him.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Indeed we have and we've enjoyed every minute of it . This can at least comfort us during the long winter ahead...

Indeed, and I’m going dark when Liverpool eventually do the horrible inevitable thing that is gonna happen while we piss around in the shadows

 

[sunama]

This is an interesting article from the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ester-united-arsenal-felt-like-mid-table-game

".......this is the fewest points United have had after seven games of a league season since then (1989). Such judgments are subjective, but this feels the weakest squad United have had since then, certainly relative to the rest of the league. It’s not necessarily straightforward to tell in the moment but back then there was a clear plan as Ferguson refashioned and professionalised the squad. Can anybody, looking at this squad, at the recent transfers in and out, honestly say they can see a clear policy?

Does anybody have any faith, even if fortunes are splurged, that things will be better in two transfer widows? In four? In six?

Football’s other great lie is that success is cyclical, as though if you’re big enough things will come good if you wait long enough.

Squads have cycles, it’s true, and whoever is in charge of long-term development, be that a manager or a sporting director, must manage the age profile of a team while fighting a constant war with entropy – but those are the details. There is also a macro picture and it’s that that must be of serious concern for United."

i was not aware that Ole was breaking negative records (I thought they'd all been broken by the previous managers since SAF), but I guess Ole wants to leave his stamp.
It really is shocking how low we've fallen. 2 years ago we got 2nd place and now we are mid table and for those who ignore results and only care about playing style - we are parking the bus in several of our games.

 

[Regalia]

We are at risk of sliding lower than Liverpool ever managed in the past 25 years. Inept board, clueless manager, inexperienced/very average squad of players. What a recipe for disaster.

 

[Infra-red]

Indeed, and I’m going dark when Liverpool eventually do the horrible inevitable thing that is gonna happen while we piss around in the shadows

Yep. I have a feeling that next summer might be a good time to take that holiday I've been saving - a two-month silent meditation retreat in a secluded cave.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Yep. I have a feeling that next summer might be a good time to take that holiday I've been saving - a two-month silent meditation retreat in a secluded cave.

Hahaha, I’m seriously planning on booking my holidays fo get away from the ensuing carnage. Not sure how the kids will enjoy no internet for 2 weeks.....

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Doing the same things and expecting different results springs to mind but in appointing Ole the club has tried to break the pattern. Results on the pitch are not great but I look towards the positives:

De Gea,
Maguire
Wan Bissaka
James
Martial
McTominay
Tuanzebe

For me that is a great base to build upon. I've left out Pogba as I am guessing he leaves at the end of the season. The team is missing experienced leaders and I think we are 4 signings short of a quality squad but it is far from an unbridgeable gap.

That's a mid-table base to build on, sadly. Not a great deal of quality on the ball, which is what makes the difference more often than not.

 

[Popcorn]

We need to adopt a more ruthless approach as a club. Bring in lots of players and sell them on if they are not top 5 players in their positions in the league. Obviously keep a number of promising young players. If they don’t make it , then sell them on straight away. Don’t offer crazy money for average players, if they won’t come and play for the same as they would get at other clubs, don’t sign them.