No. It's possible of course, but very far from "for sure".
The Spurs thread | 2017-18 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned
- Thread starter Damien
- Start date
- Status
I think anyone who believed Kane would leave last year or this year was pretty closed off to the combination of what Spurs would require in terms of a fee, how much of a fuss he would have had to kick up to make it possible and how his personality conflicts totally with kicking up said fuss.Progress at last! It makes a nice change from the usual "this summer for sure" narrative spin
Last Summer for example there was literally four clubs who could afford him... PSG instead of Neymar which was never going to happen given his superstar status. Barcelona as a direct replacement which was never going to happen given Messi's situation. City who had Aguero and United who had several positions to fill. That's before even considering the need for Kane to have a monumental tantrum to make it happen
Alli was the one I thought would leave this year and I believe he absolutely would have done if he hadn't had a poor year in terms of performances. I'm sure any objective Spurs fan is probably quite glad they achieved their objectives without Alli having a great year.
Spurs' challenge going forward is going to be a fair few truly indispensable players all hitting their prime mid to late twenties at the same time and therefore wanting trophies aan that big life setting contract. Erikson, Kane and Alli are the absolute difference makers in that team and they're all good enough to play for £250k a week paying, serial trophy winning teams.
I for one do not want Kane at Man Utd, Not after how he reacted to a bit of banter and the way he stole that goal.
Red Rom would never have done that and plays for the team rather than a golden boot! I would take Eriksen though reminds me of Bergkamp who to this day i am gutted he never played for us.
The problem they have is Real can simply say come now or don't ever get the job and they would do that so don't be so sure he will stay.
If Man Utd cant keep some one from Madrid how the feck do they thing they will......
Red Rom would never have done that and plays for the team rather than a golden boot! I would take Eriksen though reminds me of Bergkamp who to this day i am gutted he never played for us.
The problem they have is Real can simply say come now or don't ever get the job and they would do that so don't be so sure he will stay.
If Man Utd cant keep some one from Madrid how the feck do they thing they will......
I remember Luis Suarez signing a new contract in January only to leave for Barcelona 4 months later. MP might not go to RM for several reasons but claiming that he has signed a new contract and won't go there is utter crap. Nobody had a slightest of idea about Zidane resigning after winning UCL including Perez.
You can't really blame him though. He hasn't won anything in his footballing career and the golden boot was the only piece of silverware he had a realistic chance of winning.
You'd change your mind if he scores 25+ goals a few seasons in a row for your team
And although Kane didn't handle the situation well at all it is a little blown up imo.
I'm sure he's gutted.
Oh so nice of you. The same argument goes for the Spurs fans as well. One league cup in 10 years right?
Also came third in a two horse race, only Spuds could manage that.
This thread is like a lame soap opera in the 17th season with all this forced drama and rehashed arguments/insults.
So am I the only Spurs fan slightly worried about our current situation?
I'm not mostly thinking of Poch possibly leaving for Madrid and the reason for that might be that I (and lots of other Spurs fans) prefer looking at it from the ostrich angle, so I don't see Poch leaving.
I'm actually most concerned about our finances..
I've been following this Charles Richards guy for a while, the guy has been blogging Spurs for years and seems to have a background in economics, combined with being a spurs fan which has enabled him to produce som interesting
blog posts on our situation.
According to him we have passed £400m in borrowings on the stadium (A source that he trusts puts the borrowing at a whopping £560m)
Thats significant and concerning to me.
For comparison we've managed to put in a little over £100m of our own money, a combination of cash generated over a decade plus new equity from Enic, towards the Northumberland Development Project.
My biggest concern: We don't have a naming rights sponsor in place yet
Seems we want some £20m a year on such a deal. If we get it, It should at the very least cover most of, if not all of the interests on any loan we have and save our funding situation, but that amount of money for a deal like that
has always been ambitious and not seen in Europe before. (I discount City's Etihad deal as that is state sponsoring to circumvent FFP)
For comparison: The Naming rights part of the Emirates deal, according to Richards, was £2,4m a year for the first decade. Granted that was low because Arsenal had put themselves in a hole when building their
new stadium and Premier League and the naming rights industry has grown significantly in Europe since then, but £20m a year is still VERY ambitious, and now 3 months(if we put on our optimistic glasses) before opening our new stadium we still haven't found a company willing to pay us that much. I made a search online: The richest naming rights deal in the US per 2016 was $20m a year (NY Mets' Citi field).
We are basically aiming for the largest naming rights deal ever made. Not guaranteed at all that we'll succeed in that venture.
Which brings me to the interesting graph he showed in one of his posts, Our commercial revenue compared to the "big five"
I don't have posting priviliges to upload images, but in short: Our commercial revenue compared to the average of the big five is less than half, and the gap has been widening relatively speaking, not just in absolute numbers
since 2010. Only a couple of years, including last season have our commercial revenue increased more than the average in percent.
I know, I know @GlastonSpur that once we get the new stadium we will bridge (some) of that gap (for instance a £20m naming rights deal will help), but the gap we need to bridge is BIG (£80m or so on the average of the rest of the big 6)
An example: Chelsea's kit deal, with same supplier we've got,is twice the size of ours. Both have multiple years left on it, so that won't change any time soon..
Some of the deals United have is fairytale stuff for us and will remain so for the foreeable future IMO.
Not saying we won't bridge the gap some of course, and we will not go bankrupt whatever happens (Joe Lewis' Tavistock Group has guaranteed for a £500m loan), but there are definately work to be done before we can expect
signifanct investment in the playing squad beyond reinvesting whatever we make on transfers IMO.
Btw,Per Swiss Ramble analysis of our accounts for 2016 that was almost £150m net made on transfers in the decade prior. Impressive, but probably not sustainable if we are gonna compete for titles as well...
I think we have been doing FANTASTIC over the last good decade or so building the club to where it is now on a negative net spend. Unfortunately we are competing against the biggest commercial machine in the world, plus
clubs that have had £1 billion given to them by their (criminal) owners, so unfortunately it is far from certain that fantastic club building will translate into significant titles. Ever.
Not that any sane person follows our club for the trophies anyways, but it's kind of annoying that we are still quite a few steps away having done so much correctly.
I'll go back to sticking my head in the ground and pretend Real Madrid doesn't exist.
I'm not mostly thinking of Poch possibly leaving for Madrid and the reason for that might be that I (and lots of other Spurs fans) prefer looking at it from the ostrich angle, so I don't see Poch leaving.
I'm actually most concerned about our finances..
I've been following this Charles Richards guy for a while, the guy has been blogging Spurs for years and seems to have a background in economics, combined with being a spurs fan which has enabled him to produce som interesting
blog posts on our situation.
According to him we have passed £400m in borrowings on the stadium (A source that he trusts puts the borrowing at a whopping £560m)
Thats significant and concerning to me.
For comparison we've managed to put in a little over £100m of our own money, a combination of cash generated over a decade plus new equity from Enic, towards the Northumberland Development Project.
My biggest concern: We don't have a naming rights sponsor in place yet
Seems we want some £20m a year on such a deal. If we get it, It should at the very least cover most of, if not all of the interests on any loan we have and save our funding situation, but that amount of money for a deal like that
has always been ambitious and not seen in Europe before. (I discount City's Etihad deal as that is state sponsoring to circumvent FFP)
For comparison: The Naming rights part of the Emirates deal, according to Richards, was £2,4m a year for the first decade. Granted that was low because Arsenal had put themselves in a hole when building their
new stadium and Premier League and the naming rights industry has grown significantly in Europe since then, but £20m a year is still VERY ambitious, and now 3 months(if we put on our optimistic glasses) before opening our new stadium we still haven't found a company willing to pay us that much. I made a search online: The richest naming rights deal in the US per 2016 was $20m a year (NY Mets' Citi field).
We are basically aiming for the largest naming rights deal ever made. Not guaranteed at all that we'll succeed in that venture.
Which brings me to the interesting graph he showed in one of his posts, Our commercial revenue compared to the "big five"
I don't have posting priviliges to upload images, but in short: Our commercial revenue compared to the average of the big five is less than half, and the gap has been widening relatively speaking, not just in absolute numbers
since 2010. Only a couple of years, including last season have our commercial revenue increased more than the average in percent.
I know, I know @GlastonSpur that once we get the new stadium we will bridge (some) of that gap (for instance a £20m naming rights deal will help), but the gap we need to bridge is BIG (£80m or so on the average of the rest of the big 6)
An example: Chelsea's kit deal, with same supplier we've got,is twice the size of ours. Both have multiple years left on it, so that won't change any time soon..
Some of the deals United have is fairytale stuff for us and will remain so for the foreeable future IMO.
Not saying we won't bridge the gap some of course, and we will not go bankrupt whatever happens (Joe Lewis' Tavistock Group has guaranteed for a £500m loan), but there are definately work to be done before we can expect
signifanct investment in the playing squad beyond reinvesting whatever we make on transfers IMO.
Btw,Per Swiss Ramble analysis of our accounts for 2016 that was almost £150m net made on transfers in the decade prior. Impressive, but probably not sustainable if we are gonna compete for titles as well...
I think we have been doing FANTASTIC over the last good decade or so building the club to where it is now on a negative net spend. Unfortunately we are competing against the biggest commercial machine in the world, plus
clubs that have had £1 billion given to them by their (criminal) owners, so unfortunately it is far from certain that fantastic club building will translate into significant titles. Ever.
Not that any sane person follows our club for the trophies anyways, but it's kind of annoying that we are still quite a few steps away having done so much correctly.
I'll go back to sticking my head in the ground and pretend Real Madrid doesn't exist.
Yes, and therefore you're also the one sane Spurs fan
I'm not sure where you get your figures from, but the club had invested into the new stadium £340 million from their own resources as of 6 months ago ... a figure which will have increased since then. That's a lot more than the "a little over £100m" that you've cited.
Also, a naming rights deal does not have to struck before the stadium opens, so time is not that much of an issue as far that's concerned.
As far as income is concerned, what counts most is the total figure, not the individual components of it. You mention Chelsea, but we're on course to close the gap on their income - a roughly £60m gap as of a year ago - and perhaps exceed it within the next 2 years.
Levy's background expertise is finance. And with an annual income that will approach the £400m mark before too long, I don't think the club will have any problem in servicing stadium debt.
I have to ask where you get your numbers from?
The latest available numbers I know of is the accounts that ended June 30th 2017, available at tottenhamhotspur.com
How have we put £340 million of our own resources, yet only have £227m in net assets including our expensive facility in Enfield?
Per last set of official accounts, we had invested £386m into the stadium, valued at £381m after depreciation.
It does not say we have funded said investment with our own equity and from what I know from our previous set of accounts, it seems
impossible that we could have invested £340m of our own funds without Enic having secretly invested the bulk of that amount into the club lately.
I agree Levy is great at finance, as I said, the club building he has done from operating at a surplus in the transfer market the last decade is FANTASTIC.
Still, that doesn't mean we're not entering a situation where we have ALOT more debt than we used to have..
(Total liabilites of £613m per last set of accounts, only 30% or so interest bearing at the time, but if Charlie Richards source is to be believed that interest bearing number has gone up with some £350m+ since then)
I have not said we will not be able to pay the interests on the stadium. Of course we will!
& Sure, Of course there is no rule that a Naming Rights Deal has to be in place before stadium opens, albeit it's very much not normal. (Btw, Tavistock has guaranteed £150m of naming rights income so that we don't break covenants with the banks)
At the same time, if we don't have a deal next season, that's £20m less to pay off the stadium that has to be found elsewhere and not much point getting a new stadium if that extra income have to go paying off the Rotschilds (Rotschild Bank issued the largest loan to us, £400m)
I for one will breathe a large sigh of relief the day a 20 year naming rights deal totalling £400m (just going by what is widely reported as our target) is pulled out of Levy's magic hat, but I'm not counting on it before I actually see it.
Not saying I don't trust Levy's judgement. Of course I do, but I'm far from as certain you are that the extra income generated from our new stadium will be sufficient for us to
invest much more heavily in transfer and player salaries compared to rest of the big 6.
It's not like the other clubs (except from maybe our London rivals) are standing still while we invest to increase future income. They do too and are quite far ahead already...
I do agree it will be sweet the day we pass the Chavs though, and that might happen sooner than later if they continue to not reach the CL and are stuck in that shed. They still dwarf us in commercial income though.
Why on earth would any sane Spurs fan be worried about Spurs current situation? We are about to move into the best new stadium in the country, have one of the most valuable squads in world football, a very talented manager wanted by the biggest club in the world. If you think we are worried, you should try being a Spurs fan in the 90s.
I mean seriously. Yes, we may not win a title, but we've come far closer than we have for decades. All in all it's a fantastic time to be a Spurs fan, and I'm not worried about our finances in the slightest. We are run by the most pragmatic chairman in England and probably Europe.
You can blame him for pathetically dragging his daughter into it.
How is not winning anything during the time when the whole squad is pushing well above their weight not be a sign of worry for any spurs fan? Statements like we have come so close to win? When? You guys somehow managed to come third in a two horse race, this season nobody came close to match city and last season you managed to threaten Chelsea only in the latter stages(lack of a sustained title challenge)
Are Lamela, Sissoko, Llorente being tied up by big new contracts? Its going to be too hard for clubs to negotiate with clever Levy over those, i guess they will get to stay at Spurs too.
And whats up with Moussa Dembele and Alderweireld, I thought they out the door? How do you think they will be replaced this window if it happens?
And whats up with Moussa Dembele and Alderweireld, I thought they out the door? How do you think they will be replaced this window if it happens?
They've already partly replaced Alderweireld with Sanchez. Granted he's not at the same level of performance as Alderweireld but he looked solid at times last season despite a few wobbles now and then.
Dembele will be the trickier replacement imo. Personally if I was Spurs i'd do everything it takes to get N'Dombele as he's perfect for their team and would replace Dembele nicely. Heard they're linked with Morgan Sanson, I followed him while at Montpellier and he looked good and he's done well at Marseille this year. Could be a very canny purchase that one.
@CapitalismSucks quality posting - really informative!
Yeah, I just thought Sanchez would be better as a squad option while he proves himself. Dembele with N'Dombele sounds like a slight upgrade, at least on the name
So basically look for young potentially good players, wait for them to come good while they rely on Kane and Eriksen to get them top 4. I guess it's a good model and a bit exiting as i enjoy watching young players make their way in the PL but I thought maybe this year they would make some important signings to not "hopefully replace" some squad members but actually improve the team. Maybe its unrealistic of me, not sure who they realistically could sign that would slot right in and improve them no questions asked?
So basically look for young potentially good players, wait for them to come good while they rely on Kane and Eriksen to get them top 4. I guess it's a good model and a bit exiting as i enjoy watching young players make their way in the PL but I thought maybe this year they would make some important signings to not "hopefully replace" some squad members but actually improve the team. Maybe its unrealistic of me, not sure who they realistically could sign that would slot right in and improve them no questions asked?
Saw this in the tweets thread and have to agree. I think he looked very good in the EL final as well, considering.
I think they will keep Lamela, Poch likes him because he is probably the most aggressive presser in the team. For me hes not good enough in regards to offensive output but if the manager likes a player that player generally stays. Sissoko could leave and im not sure Spurs fans would even notice.
Llorente and Dembele could both go, they could maybe squeeze one more season out of Llorente if he is happy with that bench role at 33-34, they have Son who can also play up top in a pinch. Dembele will make his own decision and the club will back whatever he decides I feel. If he decides his body is not up for it and goes to another league or stays and plays more of a backup/bench role.
Alderweireld is gone and as people have noted, Sanchez is his replacement, for a young kid and his first season he didnt do half bad, certainly not in Alderweirelds class. But you dont expect a young kid to come in and be on par with arguably the best CB in the league.
Spurs definitely need a CB, and a midfielder with the ability to drive forward with the ball or be a creative outlet from deep. Dembele even if he stays will be playing a lot less and Winks is Wilshere v2.0
I guess if you’re measuring us up to United or similar then I guess that’s a fair stance. Although one that gives me a wry smile and one I find quite comical.
Overall I’ve seen Spurs in a similar bracket to the likes of Everton or Newcastle who have strong fanbases and winning history, albeit from decades ago.
What I’m seeing is we’re pulling away from the pack - while they all falter. The club is also cementing itself in a solid position just beneath the big money clubs. Which without a moneybags owner is the best we can do.
So yeah I’m extremely pleased with the team. I would find it hard not to be especially considering where we’ve come from and what’s happened around us. I know the “but you haven’t won anything” tag is really easy to run out and troll with but I do think we’ll be winning things soon enough and overallnit doesn’t take a lot of brain power to see why a Spurs fan would be happy to have a great team to watch and support.
Is the squad pushing well above it's weight? The squad doesnt have a lot of depth granted, and none in some areas like CB once Alderweireld departs. But the first 11 is as good as any except maybe City, you could argue both Eriksen and Kane are world class. Outside that you have some great players like Son, Alli, Rose, Alderweireld, Dier, Vertonghen, Davies, Dembele. The caf doesnt seem to rate Dier, Son or Davies but I feel all three had good seasons, Davies was my LB in the underrated team of the year thread.
The problems start when you look at the bench, you've got a crocked Lamela and Winks, old players about to retire like Llorente, Sissoko who doesnt seem like he does anything, and young pretty much unproven players like Walker Peters and Foyth. Wanyama I think is solid and Moura could turn out to be a great purchase, apart from that im sceptical.
Starting to lay the NFL pitch in our new stadium:
![](https://<a href="http://www.freeimagehosting.net/commercial-photography/"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/u9rdTuz.jpg" alt="Commercial Photography"></a>)
Rumours abound that Messi is about to request a transfer. The prospect of ending his career without having been able to call the Walkers Crisp Bowl his home is simply unbearable to him. Such is the power of this new juggernaut of a stadium, this gift bestowed upon the world of football (both the American and the non-moronic kind) by the mighty Spurs.
Genuine question, if United were building a new stadium would you be in the slightest bit excited?
Clearly you have a problem … care to share with us what it is?
I don't know. Whenever the subject comes up, the thought of Old Trafford being torn down to make way for something new doesn't sit well with me. I find myself preferring the idea of upgrading and modernising. I'd probably be a bit excited about any upgrades, yeah. Anyway, my goal wasn't to make fun of the idea of being excited about the new stadium. I was merely having a bit of fun at Glaston's expense.
It was a joke, you humourless sod.
Come on a micro brewery in old Trafford and you’d be sold. An interesting question would be, if United did rebuild which will happen at some point, the naming rights would be fecking massive. Oh and no I’m not a big fan of sponsored stadiums but it’s the way we are going.
I see. Aren't jokes meant to be clever and actually funny, rather than dully moronic? Just asking …
I was actually quite excited by that, but it turns out it's beavertown, so good luck paying anything less than 6 quid for a pint!!
I will still be hiding my quarter bottle in my boxers then. How much is a pint in London now anyway close to a fiver? I’m from NI and only get over a few times a year.
you'd be wise to. Depends what you're drinking, but if it's all the "craft beers" you're looking close to a fiver, if not more.I'd expect more, it's £4-odd in most places in the south as-is. Nearer £6 or £7 at an 'event', at a guess
Feck, just tear the whole stadium down and replace it with a brewery. United can play in the field next to the parking lot. But seriously, a microbrewery would be pretty sweet.
And yeah, I'd expect the naming rights to a potential new stadium to cost an absolute fortune. I wonder if they'd be worth more than the naming rights to Old Trafford? I mean, people would just refer to it as Old Trafford regardless, so I'd expect that to affect the value somewhat.
Luckily for me, there are no hard-and-fast rules for what constitutes a joke, and humour in general tends to be subjective.
Is being hostile and abrasive your natural state? Or are you just very easily triggered?
Says the poster who responded earlier with a personal insult? You might try reflecting on your own natural state.
- Status