The tactical fouling on Daniel James

[Bastian]

I just saw this bit here in a piece on Solskjaer's progress.

"Thirty five appearances for club and country by the end of January is a punishing schedule for any player, let alone James, whose slight frame means he is knocked off his feet a painful amount."

I feel pundits and journos are mostly getting James wrong. He has been targeted in every single game. Twice booked for diving early on in his United career when he had clearly been fouled - and it was not even properly addressed by the media, in hindsight.

He is not knocked over because of his "slight frame" but because he's lightning quick and he's about to break away from his defender. I feel he's had an extremely unfair start to his Premier League career by not getting anything close to the correct calls nor proper protection from the refs, his manager or his teammates. It's such an obvious thing that we should be highlighting this, winning free kicks, getting opponents booked and walking a tightrope.

When we played Burnley away they simply decided to kick him off the park. And the ref allowed it. And Ole said nothing. And his teammates didn't stand up for him. It was a particularly thuggish performance by Burnley, but by and large, James suffers a lot of cynical fouls.

I think this thread will collect ample evidence in future.

 

[cyril C]

Being picked on, is part of the game. Ever since CR came on board, even Giggs had his fair share of professional foul. If anyone not capable of protecting himself and keep going, he should not play in this league.

 

[Bastian]

Being picked on, is part of the game. Ever since CR came on board, even Giggs had his fair share of professional foul. If anyone not capable of protecting himself and keep going, he should not play in this league.

That's not the point though. James is tough, he gets on with things, there are no complaints about his character. It's about the environment around him.

 

[ghaliboy]

Before the season started it was obvious he was going to get kicked all over the place because of his blinding pace. It took Ronaldo 3 seasons to get any kind of protection from the referees. I don't really expect James to get any kind of fair treatment because that is the English game in general. Agree that he's just being booted around in games and getting absolutely nothing.

 

[Bastian]

Before the season started it was obvious he was going to get kicked all over the place because of his blinding pace. It took Ronaldo 3 seasons to get any kind of protection from the referees. I don't really expect James to get any kind of fair treatment because that is the English game in general. Agree that he's just being booted around in games and getting absolutely nothing.

Sure, maybe the refs will catch on as time goes by. But SAF was on the case immediately. I'd see it as valuable strategy to counter the narrative that he dives which gives defenders more leeway by refs.

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

I agree with the OP, and yes Ole and his team mates should be more vocal about the issue and put some pressure on the ref.

 

[MikeKing]

My question is, what about similar players in the league? I seem to remember Hazard getting his fair share of protection. The most recent example of a similar player to James must be Adama Traore who is comparable and also seems to be protected from thuggish take downs. Is it the narrative that United are weak, so by extension Daniel James must be weak with a slight frame instead of dangerously quick and prone to rough treatment from the opposition? This is how the league and the refs operate. I have only praise for Dan James and Ole who desperately tries to show some class up in this mess. The league is compromised. Watch Dan James get booked for diving after legit fouls have been committed, while Aguero or Salah swiftly go to ground over nothing and receives penalties and free kicks galore.

 

[Son]

My question is, what about similar players in the league? I seem to remember Hazard getting his fair share of protection. The most recent example of a similar player to James must be Adama Traore who is comparable and also seems to be protected from thuggish take downs. Is it the narrative that United are weak, so by extension Daniel James must be weak with a slight frame instead of dangerously quick and prone to rough treatment from the opposition? This is how the league and the refs operate. I have only praise for Dan James and Ole who desperately tries to show some class up in this mess. The league is compromised. Watch Dan James get booked for diving after legit fouls have been committed, while Aguero or Salah swiftly go to ground over nothing and receives penalties and free kicks galore.

You could argue Aguero, Salah and Hazard have quicker feet than James so they bait fouls better in the box.

Hazard is a bit like Messi in that his style is a lot more refined compared to James, often releasing the ball before an opponent even gets the chance to put a foot in.

I believe Dan James style lends itself to encouraging tackles as his possession game nor dribbling is particularly good. The ball doesn’t exactly stick to his foot like the players mentioned above.

 

[MikeKing]

You could argue Aguero, Salah and Hazard have quicker feet than James so they bait fouls better in the box.

Hazard is a bit like Messi in that his style is a lot more refined compared to James, often releasing the ball before an opponent even gets the chance to put a foot in.

I believe Dan James style lends itself to encouraging tackles as his possession game nor dribbling is particularly good. The ball doesn’t exactly stick to his foot like the players mentioned above.

Encouraging tackles, as opposed to not encourage desperate tackles by not getting past players with insane speed? That is the problem with James, he is so quick that if he pass a player or runs in behind it's virtually impossible to stop him. He will not get played through cleanly with enough space for it to be dangerous more than 3-4 times at the maximum per game but that is enough. It is the same as people holding a player like Van Djik down so he can't jump on a corner, they would do it because his strength in headers means there is a higher probability of him scoring a chance. Same applies with Dan James and his pace. If the refs started to allow people to hold Van Djik down due to him encouraging it by being great in the air, everyone would start doing it every week and Van Djik would have no chance to play his natural game. Refs can't just stop applying the rules, because a player is so good he makes it seem like he has an unfair advantage.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Being picked on, is part of the game. Ever since CR came on board, even Giggs had his fair share of professional foul. If anyone not capable of protecting himself and keep going, he should not play in this league.

That's not the issue. The issue is that our team mate seems not to be offensive enough towards the referee about the amount kicking or fouls James received. Sometimes being vocal towards the referee can make the difference.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Early on in the season I felt there was a case to be made for this. Since then, he's legitimately getting overpowered by opponents regularly and isn't really able to offer any threat in terms of running at defenders and getting ahead of them. His upper body strength is poor IMO.

 

[Ali Dia]

He’s been figured out to an extent
He’s also very tired looking
He’s probably found his average level
But he’s got a lot of potential. His good level was very effective. I don’t think he was ever supposed to play this many games and he’s better on the left.

 

[NewGlory]

I just saw this bit here in a piece on Solskjaer's progress.

"Thirty five appearances for club and country by the end of January is a punishing schedule for any player, let alone James, whose slight frame means he is knocked off his feet a painful amount."

I feel pundits and journos are mostly getting James wrong. He has been targeted in every single game. Twice booked for diving early on in his United career when he had clearly been fouled - and it was not even properly addressed by the media, in hindsight.

He is not knocked over because of his "slight frame" but because he's lightning quick and he's about to break away from his defender. I feel he's had an extremely unfair start to his Premier League career by not getting anything close to the correct calls nor proper protection from the refs, his manager or his teammates. It's such an obvious thing that we should be highlighting this, winning free kicks, getting opponents booked and walking a tightrope.

When we played Burnley away they simply decided to kick him off the park. And the ref allowed it. And Ole said nothing. And his teammates didn't stand up for him. It was a particularly thuggish performance by Burnley, but by and large, James suffers a lot of cynical fouls.

I think this thread will collect ample evidence in future.

I agree with the OP. James is handling these targeted fouls very well, but his teammates and Ole should be protecting him more.

 

[Sky1981]

I read somewhere that a good teams (us in 1999) would have our own hatched man as well (was Giggs / Bruce) back in those days. If you tackle one of our boys, we'll make sure you get the same treatment. I also read that flair players has their own ways to make their tacklers regrets tacking them (by pretending to fall down and stamp on their feet etc, or by theatrics)

We have none of that in our team, poor james

 

[Bastian]

Early on in the season I felt there was a case to be made for this. Since then, he's legitimately getting overpowered by opponents regularly and isn't really able to offer any threat in terms of running at defenders and getting ahead of them. His upper body strength is poor IMO.

I have quite a different take on this. Our counter attacking game is dependent on a) teams not sitting deep and b) having Rashford in the side. Without those two things, we are at an impasse where hardly anyone in our team looks capable in the final third. So it's not a problem limited to James. Sure, he has to work on things to function better in a style which doesn't allow for constant counter attacks, but so have all our other players.

 

[Dozer]

He might be brave and tough in terms of getting back on his feet, but he is astonishingly weak physically. Felled by a breath of wind.

I like him, and agree he desperately needs a breather after being thrown in at the deep end far too early. After that though, he needs to hit the gym.

 

[The Irish Connection]

Dan James is doing tactical diving though as well, that’s why people think he’s weak, he tries to buy fouls by getting his body in front of the ball and going over with slight contact. Plenty players do it nowadays. The refs have copped on a bit, he just needs to pick his moments better.

 

[r3idy]

I read somewhere that a good teams (us in 1999) would have our own hatched man as well (was Giggs / Bruce) back in those days. If you tackle one of our boys, we'll make sure you get the same treatment. I also read that flair players has their own ways to make their tacklers regrets tacking them (by pretending to fall down and stamp on their feet etc, or by theatrics)

We have none of that in our team, poor james

This is true. I remember a game against Arsenal early on in Giggsy career and Nigel Winterburn was doing the 'Wise Old Pro' on him. Robbo steps in and Winterburn folds like a cheap suit, Giggs dominates him for the rest of the game.

Agreed our team does lack some steel in games. Go back to the pre-season game against Spurs and Sissoko goes through James, twice and Stamps on him (depending on which way you look at it). The only player to step up was McTominay. We could do with a few masters of the dark arts for sure.

 

[SATA]

I just wish we had a Bryan Robson character in the team now. The story about Robbo protecting Giggsy when he was a young player was fascinating to read. Basically Giggsy was kicked all game by one of our opponents (I can’t remember which team) and he told Robbo about it. Robbo then told Giggs to go into central midfield while he’ll take the left wing himself. After ten minutes, Robbo told Giggs he had it sorted out with the bloke who kicked Giggsy and they can go back to their original positions. Brilliant stuff

 

[Brightonian]

This is well spotted. Those above saying he's easily knocked over are just ignoring the basic laws of physics. When you are moving that fast, at a full sprint, it is much easier to knock you over, no matter what your build is. You can't 'jockey' when your feet are barely touching the ground. Players who are 'powerful' runners and can't be knocked off the ball while running with it (Yaya Toure comes to mind as a good example) are not moving anywhere near as fast as James does when he kicks and runs.

And it's not about being 'found out' either. If an opponent has to break the rules to stop you, they haven't 'found you out'. 'Aguero's lethal from ten yards so make sure to break his legs every time it looks like he might be about to pull the trigger'. 'Goalies can't stop Neves' free kicks so we're going to put a defender on the line too and have him use his hands to help save it. That should neutralise his main threat.'

The solution is for the captain to be in the ref's ear every single time James is clipped or hacked down, and Solskjaer to be in the media about it. It might sound cynical but it works, we've seen it plenty of times. Chelsea managers moaned again and again about Hazard being fouled and eventually the calls started going his way.

 

[redshaw]

The shoulder barge was a foul. We've seen them given before, you can't just assault someone with your shoulder. You can use your shoulder while running with another player to stand your ground but this was a charging attack and sent him flying.

 

[Varun]

He's a brave lad, always gets up and gets on with it. His teammates and the manager need to do a lot more to protect him though.

 

[MikeKing]

He's a brave lad, always gets up and gets on with it. His teammates and the manager need to do a lot more to protect him though.

The teammates will receive yellow cards for instigating or unprofessional behaviour, while Ole and the club will get a fine for failing to control their players. Every time we speak up they make an example out of us, which is ironic because it isn't being followed up else where. Makes for a weird situation, and I guess this is the reason why we aren't speaking up for ourselves. The ironic thing is that if we disregard the warnings we get and stand together to defend ourselves, the media will spin it to get negative headlines about it and a new negative narrative will be created from it and it will be used against us in games. If we had a reputation like Burnley we wouldn't get away with it.

 

[Cassidy]

Which wingers, especially pacey ones don’t get this type of treatment in the PL?

its part of the game and he is gling to have to adapt if he wants to be successful

 

[Jeppers7]

I haven’t seen him attempt to go past anyone in months, I don’t think the issue is tactical fouls it’s more he’s been overplayed and suffering a dip in form. It might also be that he isn’t that great, but time will tell on that.