Not close to being true, Porto, Madrid, Chelsea 1 were all attacking sides and none of his past teams could be described as out and out defensive. He believes in sound defense as basis of success, name a top manager who would disagree. As he said yesterday we have problems, everyone can see that. It might be all due to Jose's man management or the players or other reasons, who knows, but because of so called 'shackled defensive tactics' nothing but repetition of lazy populous narrative.
The theory that Jose Mourinho doesn’t ‘allow’ our players to attack...
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Not close to being true, Porto, Madrid, Chelsea 1 were all attacking sides and none of his past teams could be described as out and out defensive. He believes in sound defense as basis of success, name a top manager who would disagree. As he said yesterday we have problems, everyone can see that. It might be all due to Jose's man management or the players or other reasons, who knows, but because of so called 'shackled defensive tactics' nothing but repetition of lazy populous narrative.
I do know what you mean, but why is it that we dont start off like we played in the second half yesterday? Why does it need us to go two down to show that sort of attacking impetus? This is happening every game and it can only down to the message from the manager, formation and ability to motivate the players.
Why start with a midfield three, consisting of Matic and McTominay at home, especially against a Newcastle side who havent registered a win this season? Why play through the middle when the space is out wide?
The changes yesterday definately made a difference, in that we had more attacking players on the pitch and attacked the right areas.
Why start with a midfield three, consisting of Matic and McTominay at home, especially against a Newcastle side who havent registered a win this season? Why play through the middle when the space is out wide?
The changes yesterday definately made a difference, in that we had more attacking players on the pitch and attacked the right areas.
Problem with our attack is numbers, when we attack with only Lukaku in the box, it's hard to create any meaningful attack. Yesterday was desperation mode and we had 3-5 players in the box and few of them just outside, we outnumbered or matched Newcastle defense, so most of the attacks looked dangerous.
Also I won't say against midtable teams, Jose sets up defensively but he sets up in a way to play cautiously.
Also I won't say against midtable teams, Jose sets up defensively but he sets up in a way to play cautiously.
You just confirmed that it was out of order. They played with 10 men in defence before and yet we lineup with 2 DMs playing at home.
The way we attacked towards the end yesterday just proves it to me.
Find it kind of insufferable how people change their tune so easily, yet they'll be back on the Jose Out bandwagon when we lose our next game and put in one of our typical performances.
Of course it was.
But some seem to think it (throwing the kitchen sink at a side) was a tactical masterclass.
I am watching Arsenal putting Fulham to the sword. I am not even confident that we would do the same to them.
To fulham? I am 100% confident we wouldn't do the same.
Mourinho has always asked his teams to defend-first. It hasn’t stopped him winning.
The players attacking poorly isn’t entirely because they have extra defensive duties. It’s what they do with the ball at their feet that determines how good or bad our attacking is.
There is some degree of conditioning I guess. Throughout Jose’s time here, he and the players have struggled to find the right balance - one (defence or attack) has always been at the expense of the other.
Apologies if I misinterpreted your original point.
You wonder with Jose if he tells them to get forward with a caveat, that there is always a but don't ........
So that makes them edgy.
fecking hell the knee jerk reactions on here after every win or loss are ridiculous. Everything that has came before is completely rewritten based on the last game.
Anyone can allow the team to attack problem is having no clue on how to coach them into attacking with purpose.
I confirmed that newcastle didnt play as was expected. Whether Jose got the tactics wrong against that is a different conversation. Although we were set up as a 433 I believe.
Well yes, that’s an obvious. We have got a very good set of attacking players in the squad.
Yeah, I was wondering how to say that. But it looks like it's definitely a factor. And then once your team harmony isn't pulling all the same way because they're not happy...
We have structural issues going both ways (attack & defence, the Goal Difference shows that, let in too many, don't score enough)
I tend to think the Manager should go but also that it's not ALL the fault of the Manager.
u wot m8?
Took me some minutes to read this properly, 2 successive "not" in one sentence is too heavy on the tongue.
Anyway your point is right but outside from Pep most top managers do that tbf. Carlo and Zidane follw the same school of depending on quality up front. The likes of Klopp, Sarri and Jardim coach specific attack patterns more, that's why if we want to replace Mourinho my preferred choice is Jardim, as can't see Zidane solving our disjointed attack problem.
Yep, my thoughts exactly. And we might get Jardim too, as Zidane' s agent had ruled out any coaching jobs in England today.
But typically, Woodward will go after Conte of course.
Our attack could be great, but for years since SAF left every manager has supposedly not attacked properly because they don't trust the defence. Our problem is we go for relatively cheap options there compared to some of the other sides, then wonder that they aren't really that good.
Well his play relies on a 1minute of each player on the pitch to show attacking brilliance where as an attacking team will have 3 minutes on the ball each. It’s not hard to fathom players with more minutes on the ball create better attacking play. Would you not agree you require the ball to attack?
My impression of Mourinhos "method", based on articles/interviews, is that in training, its defence and structure first then the attacking part is more up to the players themselves to sort out on the pitch. Then again, we dont know whats being said on the training field.
Sanchez(wage), Martial and Lukaku weren’t cheap at all. Neither was Pogba and I consider him an attacking/creative player.
We went for 3 managers who weren’t attack oriented at all to say the least, so there’s also that...
I meant cheap on defenders. I don't think people appreciate how important a good defence is. They have splashed the cash elsewhere on the field, but if you are always needing to defend, or are set up to be defensive, that expenditure is pointless.
Not much based on the evidence on the pitch tbh.
Yeah we basically dont have a clue do we. Professionals or not they still need coaching to perform at their best, clearly something Mourinho has to take responsibillity for
We’ve had equally poor defences under SAF and still played very attacking football. (2001-2006)
I agree to an extent with what you are saying but I don’t think that if we’ve bought Tobby in the summer we would be playing a totally different brand of football all of a sudden.
Jose’s first Chelsea side had a phenomenal defence and they were still a cautious side.
Newcastle have been playing very defensively so far this season. So its only natural that that is what Jose would have had us training against all week. No one saw them as an attacking threat. No one.
I agree that Toby wouldn't make that much difference, although if Jose thought he would he may have taken the brakes off. It is the fact that he just doesn't trust them that is a big problem. I highly doubt Jose will change his tactics much anyway.
Which actually doesn't put Rafa in a good light, as if they had attacked more, they may have had more points. It is that defensive attitude that has cost them.
The opening post is complete rubbish. Jose stifles all attacking within the team. All you have to o is watch the games. Sideways and back passing is prevalent, and Jose sits on the sideline altering it not one bit. The park the bus jibes from other fans, do not just appear from nowhere. The man is such a negative manager and anyone that says different is deluded as feck.
Under Fergie, we had a "You score 3, we will score 4" mentality. So we could afford a slightly weakened defence.
I agree with all of this.
Talking about being let off the leash at 2-0 down is a simplistic narrative.
As you point out with reference to West Ham we’ve been 2-0 plenty of times and not come back. Did we get let off the leash against Brighton and Spurs at 2-0 down.
The idea Jose sends the team out to play bad is for the birds. He said it himself yesterday: one thing is not being able to do it, another is not wanting to do it and another is feeling weighed down by the man hunting. IMO our real problem is the last one.
There might be some players trying to get him sacked but I think there are a lot more who just can’t deal with the pressure. The weight of expectation causes them to make mistakes. When we get a goal we look a different team. The confidence changes so drastically. But ever since Fergie we have struggled to put out teams that really play like they think they’re good enough. Occasionally Jose can coax it out of them but they tend to shrink back.
Jose is defensive coach, i don't disagree with that. But his teams always were first or second in terms of scoring goals. Why? Because he had ball playing defenders. It is not excuse, it is reality. You can't play attacking football with dross in defence. Smalling is maybe solid in defence( well he is at least better than others) but he can't pass the fecking ball.
This. And usually we don't even react like that.
Very true. As shit as we were that first half, they attacked brilliantly and would surely be doing much better in the table if they played like that every week.
Man, remember the counter attacking prowess of Inter in 2009/2010 and Real in 2011/2012? We have some speedsters in the team yet we have no counter threat.
He isn’t scoring goals from left back is he? If a player performs better under a manager than he did under another then what do you take from it? If you want to criticise for bad form you have to credit for good form.
A manager wants his players to play for the team? Well I’m shocked. What would Alex Ferguson say? Giggs and Beckham never had to work hard defensively.....
Mourinho ability to coach has declined. He can’t even coach his own de facto style of football anymore. His eye for the game isn’t quite what it used to be (lack of passion or just burn out). That’s why it’s pointless bringing up past glories and better to look at the present.
Jose was a world class manager and a coach. Just like Wenger he isn’t anymore.
Look at how high Liverpool and City win the ball, look at how many numbers those teams commit in attack and compare it to us.
Make your own judgement.
Make your own judgement.
I largely agree, it’s clear we would be better if the system was more fluid and favoured attacking players but we have large spells of games where we have the ball, where we should be offering more and just don’t. A combination of dreadful decision making, shocking finishing and a fear of messing up are costing us a lot too.
Tons of super experts here... in Mourinho I trust.