The true cost of the Mourinho era and how badly the club has been run

[Bobcat]

Saw this on reddit and really thought it was a worthwhile read

Explains in depth how badly our finances have been handled the past few years and why we still have a hangover from some of the deal we made

 

[Bubz27]

The first paragraph of that is so condescending.

As if Ole saying there won't be major deals would make Dortmund think"Yeah, they don't have loads of money, give them Sancho for £50m, poor things."

And apparently the Glazer debt hasnt affected our operatinf ability? Maybe if we weren't paying them £90m a year we could have 5 or 6 £50m+ defenders like City?

 

[GoldTrafford99]

Saw this on reddit and really thought it was a worthwhile read

Explains in depth how badly our finances have been handled the past few years and why we still have a hangover from some of the deal we made

I AM NOT ITK.

I do not profess to be ITK.

I just happen to be good friends with a Manchester United first team coach - have been for decades.

The above article is a good read, and it mirrors everything this first team coach has told me over the past couple of years.

The Mourinho era brought years of detriment to our football club... Though this coach also blames Woodward for giving into Mourinho...

He says (and I won't name him) the one thing that baffled him more than anything was the contract given to De Gea as he knew it would have future consequences, right through the club. He has also told me that the one thing Alex Ferguson was most baffled about over the years since his retirement was the sale of Jonny Evans under LvG... Fergie has since told this coach that he simply couldn't believe that sale. He was stunned by it.

But yeah, if any United fan wants the actual truth, the article above is as close as you're gonna get it.

 

[GoldTrafford99]

The first paragraph of that is so condescending.

As if Ole saying there won't be major deals would make Dortmund think"Yeah, they don't have loads of money, give them Sancho for £50m, poor things."

And apparently the Glazer debt hasnt affected our operatinf ability? Maybe if we weren't paying them £90m a year we could have 5 or 6 £50m+ defenders like City?

Face palm.

Read the feckin' article and try understand it. Not the first two sentences.

And NO, the fees paid to the Glazers and the debt DO NOT change how we operate financially as a football club. Please understand that. It's not that difficult to comprehend.

 

[DavelinaJolie]

It's a fascinating view of the situation for sure. I've thought that Mourinho put this team in a hole to a degree, but to see the financial aspect of it laid out so clearly is quite eye-opening. This is aside from any thoughts on Ole.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I AM NOT ITK.

I do not profess to be ITK.

I just happen to be good friends with a Manchester United first team coach - have been for decades.

Sure you are.

Clear the club realised they fecked up going Moyes > LVG > Mourinho, and fair play that they realised after that second season and put the transfer board in place. It had gotten stupid and letting LVG attempt to build a side in his imagine prior to it was equally as stupid and incredibly costly.

But make no mistake though, it wasn't such a mess it'll take 10 years to fix ffs. The transfer board started working on fixing it before they even had a manager when they flogged Fellaini. Saying "piss off" to Sporting in the Summer of 2019 and forcing them down to an incredible price for Bruno in Jan laid the foundations, as did saying "piss off" again to Dortmund last Summer.
The "mess" was sorted by Summer 2020, it took 1.5 years.

 

[hubbuh]

Unless the Glazers/Edward Woodward suddenly become competent directors I struggle to see how things get better. We're in a crapshoot with Woodward calling the shots.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I AM NOT ITK.

I do not profess to be ITK.

I just happen to be good friends with a Manchester United first team coach - have been for decades.

The above article is a good read, and it mirrors everything this first team coach has told me over the past couple of years.

The Mourinho era brought years of detriment to our football club... Though this coach also blames Woodward for giving into Mourinho...

He says (and I won't name him) the one thing that baffled him more than anything was the contract given to De Gea as he knew it would have future consequences, right through the club. He has also told me that the one thing Alex Ferguson was most baffled about over the years since his retirement was the sale of Jonny Evans under LvG... Fergie has since told this coach that he simply couldn't believe that sale. He was stunned by it.

But yeah, if any United fan wants the actual truth, the article above is as close as you're gonna get it.

 

[Bubz27]

Face palm.

Read the feckin' article and try understand it. Not the first two sentences.

And NO, the fees paid to the Glazers and the debt DO NOT change how we operate financially as a football club. Please understand that. It's not that difficult to comprehend.

Why do you assume I haven't read it? No need for the facepalm and aggression in your post.

It's nice to have all this in one place but I've read about all this stuff before. There's nothing in there that I wasn't generally aware of.

The issue I have, and the reason I commented on the beginning, is because the article is prefaced by having a dig at anyone who was annoyed at what Ole said and tried to make our it was a masterstroke. In reality, it's meaningless what he said so both sides are silly to get annoyed. It doesn't truly affect our summer plans because other clubs aren't stupid.

i agree the debt doesn't affect how we operate financially but it does affect our financial operations. We'd have more money to spend on transfers (and bonuses, agent fees, kit men and milk for the cafeteria) if we weren't paying them such huge dividends but being what the article describes as "terrible owners".

 

[tenpoless]

The true cost of LvG+Moyes era should be at least as costly as the Jose's one.

 

[GoldTrafford99]

Unless the Glazers/Edward Woodward suddenly become competent directors I struggle to see how things get better. We're in a crapshoot with Woodward calling the shots.

Absolutely;


Most Unietd fans have it wrong.

The Glazers aren't bad owners because they won't spend money and take money - which they're entitled to take - out of the club.

They are bad owners because they appointed Ed Woodward to run a football club, on the basis that he was so good commerically.

It was Woodward who hired LvG and then Jose. It was Woodward who wasted 1 billion on transfers such asSanchez, Ibrahimovic, Mkhitaryan, Falcao, Di Maria, Schwiensteiger etc... The prick was playing Fantasy Football at the biggest football club on the planet...

Thankfully, Alex Ferguson got his nose stuck back in and persuaded Woodward to start looking more long-term, and we got Ole in and started to recruit 17-18 year olds rather than Alexis feckin Sanchez types...

We're on the right road now. But my God have the last seven years been an absolute feck up by Woodward.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The true cost of LvG+Moyes era should be at least as costly as the Jose's one.

Absolutely, but it's fashionable only to blame Mourinho.

The club ran itself as though it still had Fergie at the helm until they woke up in the Summer of 2018. It's been much better run since, the transfer board might of pissed off Mourinho royally but it was a very good move in hindsight.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Interesting article, this blew my mind;

Then Mourinho decided he didn’t want Mkhitaryan and he’d swap him with Alexis Sanchez. Since it’s a ‘swap’ deal that means you’re not spending money right? Think again. As Kieran Maguire broke down in The Price of Football when all the costs were added up, if both players had played out their full contracts Sanchez would have ended up costing just £1 million less than Romelu Lukaku.

Basically we are the Enron of football.

 

[sullydnl]

Largely agree with the post in the OP, bar two things:

1) Framing it as the cost of Mourinho's time here is unfair when the article itself references the Di Maria, Schweinsteiger and Schneiderlin transfers too. You could add the likes of Depay into that too. The problem had set in long before Mourinho arrived. Blame should be spread more evenly.

2) You can't really point to the problems inherent in signing a "free" (but actually very expensive) aging striker who will need to be replaced in a few years anyway as sign of our past problems under Mourinho when we did literally the same thing last summer too.

 

[Adnan]

Interesting article, this blew my mind;



Basically we are the Enron of football.

This is the reason the club shouldn't give the ultimate power to the manager in the transfer market. Mourinho maligned the club scouts and instead trusted his own independent scouts which saw us bring in more mediocrity.

There's been a clear disconnect between the club scouts and the manager post Fergie as far as the recruitment strategy is concerned and hence we've wasted vast amounts of money.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

2) You can't really point to the problems inherent in signing a "free" (but actually very expensive) aging striker who will need to be replaced in a few years anyway as sign of our past problems under Mourinho when we did literally the same thing last summer too.

Plus, he was our arguably our second best signing since Fergie. Signing him over an 80m striker meant we had money that Summer for Pogba, which we wouldn't have had otherwise.
Sometimes a short term deal is the smart deal.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

This is the reason the club shouldn't give the ultimate power to the manager in the transfer market.

In fairness, they just thought they could run it how they did with Fergie. Thankfully they realised their mistake eventually.

 

[Bobcat]

Absolutely, but it's fashionable only to blame Mourinho.

The club ran itself as though it still had Fergie at the helm until they woke up in the Summer of 2018. It's been much better run since, the transfer board might of pissed off Mourinho royally but it was a very good move in hindsight.

While its true that LvG made some costly mistakes as well, i belive he truly had the long term health of the club in mind and wanted to do a rebuild in his image.

The one that stands out though is the Sanchez deal, which had a host of negative consequenses in its wake.

At the end of the day though, we have been second only to City in net spend while the value of our squad has gone down compared to our closest rivals, and this would been even worse had it not been for our academy

 

[Maticmaker]

"Well, if I were you I wouldn't start from here..." I wonder if these famous words of someone seeking 'direction' ever get perused, or even repeated, in the higher echelons of the club these days?

The lack of succession planning that initially allowed the Club's most successful manager, and the CE, both to leave the club, almost at the same time; that allowed the out going manager to choose his successor ( a 'no, no,' in terms of strategic management, no matter how successful the manager), and subsequently to allow a build up of player personnel that came to represent one of the most 'motely crew' of players around in the PL, assembled by four different managers over seven year. It all goes to demonstrate that we definitely shouldn't have started from ....!!.

Anyway hindsight is a wonderful thing, 'the milks been spilt', 'the horse bolted', 'no use dwelling on the past' etc. what comes next? Find another world class manager, as City, Liverpool, (even Everton) have done... or grow your own ... with Ole!

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

what comes next? Find another world class manager, as City, Liverpool, (even Everton) have done... or grow your own ... with Ole!

What comes next is what we've seen since the Summer of 2018. A huge trimming of the bloated squad & wages, a transfer direction decided by a board rather than a manager, whilst maintaining a veto for the current manager, and a focus on bringing in young talent such as Diallo.
Whether it's Ole who takes this direction to the next level, or more likely a new exceptional manager, we'll see, but there is no doubt in my mind that the club woke up in 2018 and are on the right path. I think the next manager, if that be the case, inherits a much better balanced and happier squad that he'll want to improve and tweak rather than rip up and start again.

 

[Maticmaker]

What comes next is what we've seen since the Summer of 2018. A huge trimming of the bloated squad & wages, a transfer direction decided by a board rather than a manager, whilst maintaining a veto for the current manager, and a focus on bringing in young talent such as Diallo.
Whether it's Ole who takes this direction to the next level, or more likely a new exceptional manager, we'll see, but there is no doubt in my mind that the club woke up in 2018 and are on the right path. I think the next manager, if that be the case, inherits a much better balanced and happier squad that he'll want to improve and tweak rather than rip up and start again.

Very much hope you are right... not seen too much 'wavering in the (management) ranks', so far!

 

[FrankDrebin]

It was a absolute disaster financially appointing and supporting Jose but what did they expect ?
Everybody knew what they were getting into when you appoint a short-termism coach such as Jose.
And the fact Jose could take advantage of United so easily also illustrates the lack of competence at the club, which is likely to continue.

Clusterf*ck.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Very much hope you are right... not seen too much 'wavering in the (management) ranks', so far!

It certainly seems the right direction, calling Sportings bluff on Bruno and saying no to Dortmund on Sancho were/are smart moves for example.
I think we'll get Sancho for 40 mil less than quoted this Summer and it'll be another statement from the club that we'll wait if we have to, we won't just pay whatever the selling club ask because we need success right this instant.
It had a much more long term vision to it.
I do believe it'll then likely take a new exceptional manager and a couple of his "speciality players" to then push us on, probably be 2022 when that happens though.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Good article, thanks for sharing.

Aside from economics - which I admit I know FA about - the main argument seems to be that we've replaced players we didn't want or think are good enough with... players who are also not good enough... while running up costs in the meantime.

It's an argument many often make. It might also help explain our focus on Diallo/Pellestri last summer who won't have rinsed us with agent fees and also mean we won't be paying bonuses for a while (spreading costs across several years).

My guess? We'll be buying one marquee signing in the summer and that's it.

Also, take Mourinho out of the equation and the piece becomes less emotional/more factual.

 

[Denis' cuff]

feck all to do with Mourinho

Try: The true cost of the Glazer era.

feck me, this place.....

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

feck all to do with Mourinho

Try: The true cost of the Glazer era.

feck me, this place.....

I’d love to think the plc would’ve done it better, but I think chances are they would’ve also let Fergie pick his successor and allow managers total “Fergie-esque” control.

It’s stupid as feck in hindsight mind.

 

[Foxbatt]

It certainly seems the right direction, calling Sportings bluff on Bruno and saying no to Dortmund on Sancho were/are smart moves for example.
I think we'll get Sancho for 40 mil less than quoted this Summer and it'll be another statement from the club that we'll wait if we have to, we won't just pay whatever the selling club ask because we need success right this instant.
It had a much more long term vision to it.
I do believe it'll then likely take a new exceptional manager and a couple of his "speciality players" to then push us on, probably be 2022 when that happens though.

Does the DVB transfer involve the transfer board? As The Board should they be questioning Ole why he is not using a 40 million asset? It's like buying an aircraft then not using it while it's parked all the time. When it's parked it's not making any money.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Does the DVB transfer involve the transfer board? As The Board should they be questioning Ole why he is not using a 40 million asset? It's like buying an aircraft then not using it while it's parked all the time. When it's parked it's not making any money.

Obviously it involves them, I’d imagine it’s a signing put forward by multiple transfer board members that Ole decided to trust rather than veto. There’s a chance Bruno was the same, or both were put forward by Ole and agreed on by the transfer board, who knows really.
You can’t get all transfers right and it appears Ole hasn’t liked what he’s seen since his arrival.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Beek has looked like an odd signing.
I said it a few months but and I'll say it again, I wouldn't be surprised if he's used in a deal to bring someone else to the club in the summer.

 

[neverdie]

Never really recovered from Wilf McGuinness.

 

[Bobcat]

Does the DVB transfer involve the transfer board? As The Board should they be questioning Ole why he is not using a 40 million asset? It's like buying an aircraft then not using it while it's parked all the time. When it's parked it's not making any money.

Van der Beek is really a strange one, considering the other of Oles signings (Maguire, AWB, Bruno) are our top 3 in minutes played since they arrived

I've heard talk about him "being forced" on Ole by the board and the fact that hes barely played is not just because Ole does not rate him, but also because he wanted to send a signal to the board...but as i said, rumors. The way i see it there are 3 possible scenarios here

1) He was a "board" player that Ole did not really want
2) He was poorly scouted and/or he did not adapt to the league as they had hoped
3) Ole really wanted him and he did not do his homework

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

1) He was a "board" player that Ole did not really want
2) He was poorly scouted and/or he did not adapt to the league as they had hoped
3) Ole really wanted him and he did not do his homework

Most likely 4) A transfer board member or multiple put him forward as an option, the rest of the board agreed he was a good option, and Ole trusted the board rather than veto.

 

[Denis' cuff]

I’d love to think the plc would’ve done it better, but I think chances are they would’ve also let Fergie pick his successor and allow managers total “Fergie-esque” control.

It’s stupid as feck in hindsight mind.

actually, they would’ve probably got their heads together and maybe or maybe not appointed Moyes. We’ll never know but sure as feck they would’ve not signed Fellaini and furthermore, in the manner they did, never mind subsequent disastrous signings and non-signings - not to mention total neglect of a stadium that was always at the absolute forefront of any other stadium in the country. Decade upon decade, since wwII, there were major improvements and always maintenance of the highest standard. No genuine supporter would give these leeches the slightest excuse or justification to what they’ve brought upon the club. It’s either total ignorance of the clubs history or just point scoring on a forum. United have suffered enormously under these cnuts and it will take decades to recover. The wealthiest club in the world now having to scrape around for young/low cost talents whilst desperately in need of immediate recruits, yet the internet is full of newbies telling us it’s the “United way” ffs.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

actually, they would’ve probably got their heads together and maybe or maybe not appointed Moyes. We’ll never know but sure as feck they would’ve not signed Fellaini and furthermore, in the manner they did, never mind subsequent disastrous signings and non-signings

Whoa whoa whoa, we're not talking about stadium infrastructure here so save that for another thread. I agree with you that we lack massive investment there but that has feck all to do with this discussion.

I absolutely think they'd have trusted Fergie to chose his successor, as it still would have been Gill as the main decision maker on that. Gill ok'd it as a Glazer man, he'd have done the same as a plc man.

Fellaini wouldn't have been signed? feck off man, the plc signed many a shit player. And do we feck scrape around for young/low cost talents.

 

[RUCK4444]

Yeah I’ve been saying for years that Mourinho is a catastrophe for clubs who can’t afford to correct his short term mindset.

First you have to suffer his awful football style and then when he finally leaves you realise he’s crippled you financially.

This is where it might be a real danger for a club like Spurs. It’s the first time in a while he’s managed somewhere without deep pockets. If they were to lose Kane or Son (or both) and allowed Jose to spend that money on short term shite, they would really struggle to turn that around imo.

Saving grace for Spurs you would expect Levy to keep a close eye on transfers, but if they get it wrong it would set them back massively as without those two up top they are a very average team.

Regarding his time here, it was a disgrace from Woodward and co, no long term vision from the top. I believe LVG’s time here was even worse in this respect, LVG set us so far back stylistically whilst wasting millions, we compounded that by appointing Mourinho and his short term vision.

Ole has worked miracles on recruitment but people have super short memories and it’s all forgotten with a few poor results. Which is ironically similar to the aforementioned short term vision from Jose.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Ole has worked miracles on recruitment but people have super short memories and it’s all forgotten with a few poor results.

"Miracles"

 

[Buster15]

Saw this on reddit and really thought it was a worthwhile read

Explains in depth how badly our finances have been handled the past few years and why we still have a hangover from some of the deal we made

Very interesting.
However, I really don't see that Jose on his own is responsible. Yes Alexis didn't work out. But City were looking at him as well.
Not all transfers work out. And few would criticise the signing of Zlatan.
And remember, the likes of Jose don't have total control of transfer policy.
One glaring omission is the commercial benefits of players like Zlatan and Pogba.

 

[RUCK4444]

"Miracles"

It’s not won us the league no but you compare it to those managers recruitment and there is no other word for it. LVG in particular.

Just look at the recruitment and how they fit the ethos of the club, age profile and the general demographic of what we look for now compared to before. Ole’s basically implemented that himself, before Ole we literally signed any old semi-retired donkeys and players looking for a paycheck who had no interest in actually wanting to be here.

Oh and that’s before you factor in how well he’s done getting rid of said donkeys and dead wood.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It’s not won us the league no but you compare it to those managers recruitment and there is no other word for it. LVG in particular.

Just look at the recruitment and how they fit the ethos of the club, age profile and the general demographic of what we look for now compared to before. Ole’s basically implemented that himself, before Ole we literally could sign any old semi-retired donkeys.

Well it's not a miracle is it, let's at least agree on that.

And what we know for certain is that Ole alone isn't deciding transfer strategy, the transfer board which includes Ole and Phelan decide on it. We know they sold Fellaini when we didn't even have a manager, we know they vetoed Mourinho on the Pogba/Martial sales and the purchases of Perisic and William. The DvB signing is almost certainly one put forward by the transfer board that Ole decided to trust and not to veto.

So yes, the transfer strategy of the entire club has been much much smarter since 2018, before Ole even arrived. Trying to pretend that is 100% on Ole, and a "miracle" is just incorrect.

 

[RUCK4444]

Well it's not a miracle is it, let's at least agree on that.

And what we know for certain is that Ole alone isn't deciding transfer strategy, the transfer board which includes Ole and Phelan decide on it. We know they sold Fellaini when we didn't even have a manager, we know they vetoed Mourinho on the Pogba/Martial sales and the purchases of Perisic and William. The DvB signing is almost certainly one put forward by the transfer board that Ole decided to trust and not to veto.

So yes, the transfer strategy of the entire club has been much much smarter since 2018, before Ole even arrived. Trying to pretend that is 100% on Ole, and a "miracle" is just incorrect.

Likewise trying to avoid any positive influence Ole has clearly had on it is ridiculous and clearly agenda driven.

Typical of the narrative here that anything positive is coincidence OR (my personal favourite) it’s just ‘moments of quality’ and at the same time EVERYTHING negative is directly Ole’s fault.

The truth is somewhere in the middle of course however what I do know is from the very moment Ole arrived he was very vocal on the need to focus on meeting basic requirements in our recruitment and his desire to make sure no player remains here that is not 100% committed to the club. Not to mention he’s the one who puts the list of signings to Ed and we don’t sign a single player without his agreement.