The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

Status
Not open for further replies.

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
130,220
Location
Hollywood CA
Wow good for him. Sincerely. Although is that because he's trying to get back in his wifes good books?

I was actually impressed with him on Bill Maher Real Time the other week. Might not have agreed with him all the time but he was very smart and articulate and he made the guy attacking him look like an idiot even though what he was saying was right.
He's an odd guy. Pulls a bit of normalcy out of the cupboard from time to time.
 

langster

Captain Stink mouth, so soppy few pints very wow!
Scout
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
21,585
Location
My brain can't get pregnant!
He's an odd guy. Pulls a bit of normalcy out of the cupboard from time to time.
Yup. He's a bit of a chameleon, one minute a roughneck with a potty mouth the next the articulate Harvard educated lawyer. He has some very liberal views on certain issues too hence why he was always at war with Bannon and Miller and Reince etc. Although undoubtedly unscrupulous and out for himself too.

I think out the whole lot only he and Spicer have any redeeming or likeable qualities as far as I have seen.
 

shabadu84

Mint? Berry?
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
4,744
Location
Muppet Treasure Island
Wow! This is insane. The man is literally crippling the USA. Tax cuts will reduce the deficit :lol: Yeah, how does that work? It just doesn't at all. Love how Republicans and Trump care about the deficit when the Dems are in the White House, they seem to be quiet on the issue now though, ironically when they really should be shouting from the rafters.

https://secondnexus.com/news/politi...2&tse_id=INF_6345c94010d011e8b29907daa8112220



They don't actually care. It's just proven to be an easy stick to beat Democrats with. The message that we will use our tax revenues for the benefit of everyone isn't as easy a sell as "We're going to give you money back directly". It sounds too much like socialism which is the devil (except when it benefits me personally of course). End of the day, the GOP know that it will still be the American taxpayer funding the tax cuts and then when Dems try to rebalance the scales, they can cry "tax and spend!" and whip up the anger they need to get re-elected and restart the cycle.
 

The Firestarter

Full Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
28,222
Being far for proficient with macroecomics, I looked up some lists of external debt. Although USA has by far the largest at 18T , it is 57K per capita, and 98% of the GDP. The countries that follow - UK, France, Germany have it at 283%, 213% , and 148 % of the GDP. So, does this mean that the USA is actually not doing so bad in that regard? Here is the list (Sorry that it's in wikipedia):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

EDIT:
Fixed US debt per-capita amount.
 
Last edited:

Mike Schatner

Devil's advocnut
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Messages
2,639
Location
Jacksonville (32218), Florida
Being far for proficient with macroecomics, I looked up some lists of external debt. Although USA has by far the largest at 18T , it is 155K per capita, and 98% of the GDP. The countries that follow - UK, France, Germany have it at 283%, 213% , and 148 % of the GDP. So, does this mean that the USA is actually not doing so bad in that regard? Here is the list (Sorry that it's in wikipedia):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt
You have added $100k on there. The debt per capita is under $60,000.

The UK's debt is $8 trillion, which is shocking considering the population is a 5th of the US, and earnings per capita are 40% higher in the US.
 

The Firestarter

Full Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
28,222
You have added $100k on there. The debt per capita is under $60,000.

The UK's debt is $8 trillion, which is shocking considering the population is a 5th of the US, and earnings per capita are 40% higher in the US.
Yeah, sorry no idea where that 100K came from.
 

langster

Captain Stink mouth, so soppy few pints very wow!
Scout
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
21,585
Location
My brain can't get pregnant!
More like Trump's best mate calling her crazy now that she has started to blab on reality TV.
Yeah of course, but he didn't need to add the part about being employed at the White House. Trump asked for her personally, either way it won't look good for him. He's taking a beating for it online and NOBODY believes a word Piers says anyway. On both sides of the Atlantic.
 

langster

Captain Stink mouth, so soppy few pints very wow!
Scout
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
21,585
Location
My brain can't get pregnant!

:lol: I can believe this. Damn I hope this is true. You can just imagine him ranting like a little bitch about Obama getting the kudos again.
 

Red Viking

Full Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
560
When you look at other countries debt the US's is very manageable. The debt:gdp is lower than 45 countries, and pretty much all of Europe and the developed world.
U.S.A have a debt that is at 105.4% of the GDP. This is no joke as it looks like it will increase even further in the future with the way the current administration is going. They are going down the trickle down route that caused the economic disaster made by the last Bush president. This would take even more borrowing to get out of yet another economic depression that is very likely to happen, and debt ratio vs GDP would rise significantly.
 
Last edited:

Redplane

( . Y . ) planned for Christmas
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
10,374
Location
The Royal Kingdom of Trumpistan

:lol: I can believe this. Damn I hope this is true. You can just imagine him ranting like a little bitch about Obama getting the kudos again.
If this would be any other guy I'd quickly tell you that story must be complete BS but in the realm of Trumpabilities this is not far fetched at all. I'd say let him commission a sculpture of himself - preferably in a very prominent place. While the cultists won't see it as an issue - I'd expect those still on the fence will quickly see that as the actual final straw. Maybe.
 

Redplane

( . Y . ) planned for Christmas
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
10,374
Location
The Royal Kingdom of Trumpistan
I guess we had ONE sorta boring day. (Yesterday). Back in the swing of things I see. It's pretty evident that aside from the scandal re Porter - some of the staff both previously in the WH and those still there (based on the fact info is leaked from staff meetings) have a real dislike for Kelly and would love to see him go down over this.
 

shabadu84

Mint? Berry?
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
4,744
Location
Muppet Treasure Island
Sounds like the Mooch is gunning for Kelly's job

Kelly almost certainly would have been the one to force him out for the Bannon comments right?

That's the upside of this administration - they're all so thoroughly self-interested that eventually they're willing to stab anyone else in the back.
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
130,220
Location
Hollywood CA
Kelly almost certainly would have been the one to force him out for the Bannon comments right?

That's the upside of this administration - they're all so thoroughly self-interested that eventually they're willing to stab anyone else in the back.
Yep. One of Kelly's first acts the very day he was appointed, was to sack the Mooch.
 

matherto

ask me about our 50% off sale!
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
17,547
Location
St. Helens
Can someone explain to me the effects of national debt?

I see huge numbers but how does it actually affect everyday life and us lot for example?

People bang on about increasing the debt being bad (which I mean, it is I imagine) but does it have any effect on day to day life for normal folk?
 

The Firestarter

Full Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
28,222
Can someone explain to me the effects of national debt?

I see huge numbers but how does it actually affect everyday life and us lot for example?

People bang on about increasing the debt being bad (which I mean, it is I imagine) but does it have any effect on day to day life for normal folk?
I think it is more problematic for developing countries with big deficits that fail to make payments on their debt, and as a result get denied access to more loans on which they rely to finance government sector , social security, etc.
 

matherto

ask me about our 50% off sale!
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
17,547
Location
St. Helens
I think it is more problematic for developing countries with big deficits that fail to make payments on their debt, and as a result get denied access to more loans on which they rely to finance government sector , social security, etc.
I figured as much.

I heard it a lot when we had our election last year and my uncle was banging on about Corbyn increasing the debt and I was just like 'and?". I couldn't think how it mattered.

Then you hear about the Republicans blaming the Democrats for increasing the debt and how terrible it is that they owe so much and now this joke which was obviously gonna happen cause Trump does exactly what he criticises others for and it doesn't make much odds really does it? Just a loud shouting match over who is worse.
 

Organic Potatoes

Full Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2013
Messages
17,164
Location
85R723R2+R6
Supports
Colorado Rapids
Can someone explain to me the effects of national debt?

I see huge numbers but how does it actually affect everyday life and us lot for example?

People bang on about increasing the debt being bad (which I mean, it is I imagine) but does it have any effect on day to day life for normal folk?
It doesn’t necessarily affect you on a daily basis. Debt isn’t a bad thing in and of itself.

The problem is the social safeguards which burden the current generation who don’t have the advantages of the previous ones in things like home ownership and retirement outlook. There has to be a reckoning at some point.
 

Simbo

Full Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Messages
5,228
I figured as much.

I heard it a lot when we had our election last year and my uncle was banging on about Corbyn increasing the debt and I was just like 'and?". I couldn't think how it mattered.

Then you hear about the Republicans blaming the Democrats for increasing the debt and how terrible it is that they owe so much and now this joke which was obviously gonna happen cause Trump does exactly what he criticises others for and it doesn't make much odds really does it? Just a loud shouting match over who is worse.
Well it usually leads to tax hikes and spending cuts somewhere down the road, or 'Austerity' as we love to call it. Trump will no doubt try just justify it by saying he's gunna get GDP up to 4% and keep it there forever and ever. Which of course, is utter madness.
 

Pexbo

Winner of the 'I'm not reading that' medal.
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
68,716
Location
Brizzle
Supports
Big Days
Well it usually leads to tax hikes and spending cuts somewhere down the road, or 'Austerity' as we love to call it. Trump will no doubt try just justify it by saying he's gunna get GDP up to 4% and keep it there forever and ever. Which of course, is utter madness.
Austerity would have been fine if it actually cut the national debt.

All the Conservative’s austerity did was take money from public services to cover tax breaks for people and companies that didn’t need it. Pretty much what the Republicans are doing now.
 

Simbo

Full Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Messages
5,228
Austerity would have been fine if it actually cut the national debt.

All the Conservative’s austerity did was take money from public services to cover tax breaks for people and companies that didn’t need it. Pretty much what the Republicans are doing now.
The tax breaks for companies that didn't need it has genuinely been good for the economy and resulted in higher tax receipts overall. 'Britain open for business' and all that good stuff, shame brexit has put a cork in it.

Without austerity we might have been better off or we might have been worse off, we may never know... Although this republican party seem keen to test the theory out for us.
 

Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 21, 2015
Messages
38,565
Supports
Arsenal
Austerity would have been fine if it actually cut the national debt.

All the Conservative’s austerity did was take money from public services to cover tax breaks for people and companies that didn’t need it. Pretty much what the Republicans are doing now.
This. The GOP has always increased the national debt to cover tax breaks and yet the poor vote for them.
 

Cheesy

Bread with dipping sauce
Scout
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
36,181
The tax breaks for companies that didn't need it has genuinely been good for the economy and resulted in higher tax receipts overall. 'Britain open for business' and all that good stuff, shame brexit has put a cork in it.

Without austerity we might have been better off or we might have been worse off, we may never know... Although this republican party seem keen to test the theory out for us.
Problem is even before Brexit it wasn't doing enough to cut down the deficit/debt. Trump and the Republicans are much worse in that regard though with their lavish military spending...fiscally responsible, except when putting money into stuff they like.
 

ChaddyP

Full Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2011
Messages
13,852
Location
Jamaica
They have louder voices than democrats and are excellent at pointing the blame elsewhere.

Plus their voters are thick as pigshit.
Why do you say that? thats a very strange characterisation of people that vote republican. Reminds me of when Hillary said they were all deplorables.
 

langster

Captain Stink mouth, so soppy few pints very wow!
Scout
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
21,585
Location
My brain can't get pregnant!
Why do you say that? thats a very strange characterisation of people that vote republican. Reminds me of when Hillary said they were all deplorables.
Exactly, It's a disturbing generalisation that only furthers to prove the Republicans right in their view of anyone who votes differently** Trump is doing more than enough to divide as it is. I'm not naive enough to think that everyone will suddenly be able to get on but there has to be a balance. It can't go on like this or it will end in another civil war.

** I hate the term liberals, and not all Dems are on the left either. Many are in fact not even liberals really. The Dems struggle at times with the huge diversity in political ideals between their politicians and voters too. Whereas the Republicans are all much closer to each other on the political spectrum. Anyway progressives is a far more accurate description for someone like myself who if in the US would be a Dem voter.
 

MTF

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
5,243
Location
New York City
Can someone explain to me the effects of national debt?

I see huge numbers but how does it actually affect everyday life and us lot for example?

People bang on about increasing the debt being bad (which I mean, it is I imagine) but does it have any effect on day to day life for normal folk?
The sequence of events for most countries goes like this:

I. First the creditors (market) start to doubt the future ability to pay of the government, and therefore the rates on rolling debt go up. At this point to cover the additional interest expense the government must either raise taxes or decrease expenditures elsewhere. Or as often happens, they do neither and the snowball starts increasing.

II. The size of the cuts required to right-size the out-of-control budget becomes politically impossible to achieve. At this point if the country has debt issued in non-domestic currency (Greece) they either need the IMF to bail them out, or they're going to default and be unable to borrow for a long time (and the companies in the country will probably also face challenges). The default also probably causes significant losses to domestic investors and possibly the banks.

III. If all of debt is in domestic currency, here is where you usually get what becomes the only politically feasible solution: the treasury issues more money to pay for the debt. Might sound clever, but this causes rising inflation (i.e. the government is taking wealth from anyone who has currency). This is another snowball that usually starts at inflation a bit higher than before, but soon spirals into 100% a year, 1000% a year. The currency also devalues by similar proportions. Although inflation would seem most detrimental to those who hold the most wealth, keep in mind that real assets retain their value well, capital is quickly moved abroad and into other currencies, and even the domestic banking system soon adapts to where its main service provided is inflation protection (see Brazil 1980s). The people most affected are those that most use paper currency vs the banking system: poorer people.


In summary, although the US and other developed countries with high debt aren't even yet at step I (everyone thinks their ability to pay is fine), there would be some level at which this would start to be questioned (and in my mind fundamentally it is developing countries that can justify running public sector deficits due to investments, developed countries have no reason for doing so for as long as they have). And you will pay eventually, hopefully with higher taxes in the future, but most likely via inflation.
 

matherto

ask me about our 50% off sale!
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
17,547
Location
St. Helens
Why do you say that? thats a very strange characterisation of people that vote republican. Reminds me of when Hillary said they were all deplorables.
Consistently voting against their self interest, openly condoning Trump and his cabinets actions, blinded by patriotism and religion meaning they're extremely easily led, intolerant (yeah I'm aware of the irony of this) Thick as pigshit.

Find me decent people that vote republican and I'll listen.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.