That "clown" Moyes currently has West Ham in 5th place, just 5 points behind us.
This is all Woodward, the Glazers’ fault
- Thread starter Crustanoid
- Start date
I mean our owners aren't exactly saints but if we really need another 200 million to beat a team that had amassed 5 points from a potential 57 then we have bigger problems 
It was Sheff Utd , the worst team ever to play in the PL. This is on the players
What does that tell you?
It tells me to look closer at the league table and realise he’s played one more game then sixth, two more games seventh, and can also be caught by Aston Villa.
Basically it’s not as impressive as you’re making out. Even our points total isn’t great for most years at this point.
Make no mistake, them trusting Fergie on his replacement was their biggest feck-up in their time as owners, and then employing LVG was their second biggest feck up.
They have been playing a stupid game of catch up ever since, one that has been incredibly expensive for them also
And?
He's still a clown though, one decent half season after almost a decade of failure and clownery doesn't change that.
OK, they've played fewer games than some of those teams below them, but the same number of games as us, which means -5 points to us is valid.
Anyway, I agree that handing control to Moyes was naive, especially him changing all the backroom staff. I think letting Gill go at the same time as Ferguson was a worse mistake. We needed transition, not revolution.
I just think Moyes is doing better than I expected at the moment, and "clown" was perhaps harsh.
As mentioned above, he’s had a horrific decade has Moyes.
Wilder also had his team in a great position at this point last season, it means very little at this point.
£160m or £200m, does it really matter? Glazers and Woodward can come into the conversation when talking about taking the club to the next level and going toe to toe with Europe’s elite but bringing them up after losing at home to Sheffield Utd is absolutely pathetic.
Their second goal wasn’t some blistering counter attack, you watched the match so you know the sequence of mistakes that led to that goal. There’s nothing wrong with calling players out on poor performances, it’s not a personal attack it just comes with being a professional athlete.
Name me the world beaters we could have got? Who realistically would be playing for United now?
We literally spent more than most sides in Europe including Liverpool.
True but who decides on the transfers? And why is this being highlighted after this game? We weren't saying nout a few weeks back. If we had invested better we would have beaten Sheffield?
The thread title should say equally to blame or something but the point still stands. This is our best chance post Fergie to win the league and we’ve left the squad with the same old glaring weaknesses. I didn’t expect us to win it this year either way and work of this kind is often slow to come to fruition on the pitch but they could still be a lot quicker to address major problems in the squad. They’ve also messed up potential haaland sancho Bellingham and Upamecano transfers to the club over the last few years. Ole is doing well despite the mess they’ve made of it before he came in. Top job and we are finally going in the right direction.
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Yes agreed. Which is why I am not calling out the defenders only like the poster did.
The fault was not 100% on the defensive line, Martial, Bruno, Pogba, Matic could all have done better there. No one looked like they wanted to go to the ball.
It was as if, its only SU, they will give us the ball an we will counter. That attitude is poor, this is why Fred and McTominay play in games, to stop that kind of crap attitude.
Since Ole's tenure, i think they've done a good job. We've bought reasonably well, could always be better but its been more focused than pre-Ole, and we've cleared the decks reasonably well too with some big earners having left (again, could always be better). As Chelsea have seen, spending big isnt always the right move and doesnt guarantee anything.
I also think despite the attention and fan pressure, we've stuck with Ole and at the moment it looks to be the right call so for me, they've done a good job in recent times.
I also think despite the attention and fan pressure, we've stuck with Ole and at the moment it looks to be the right call so for me, they've done a good job in recent times.
Even as angst-filled threads like this are created, Manchester United sit second in the league just one point off first.
Are you unhappy with our league position?
Managers Vetoed Thiago Kroos (Moyes, Van Gaal)
Doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
Was just a couple of weeks ago where I was thinking hey, the mid season "blame glaze-ward" threads haven't appeared yet.
they are on queue. Every dropped points is now on them. If only we had signed Kroos, Thiago, Haaland, Sancho, Upemecano, VVD, we would be 20 points clear by now.
If only football was champ manager
I said this to my son when DDG inexplicably kicked the ball five yards to a Sheffield Utd player, I said ,"that's Woodward's fault kid!"
He replied, " You're a twat dad!"
He replied, " You're a twat dad!"
In the joy of a derby win it is easy to forget that the Glazers bankrolled a transfer window last year when we brought in Cavani, VdB and 2 kids (Diallo, Pellistri). None of these players played a minute against City and, with the intermittent exception of Cavani, haven't been members of our starting 11.
Thus, Ole won this game with last year's squad that played every game and ran out of gas at the end of last season. That we had only one one Academy-grown 19 year-old on the bench (Greenwood) potential game-changer on the bench while City had Aguero, B Silva and Torres (Foden is, like Greenwood, from their Academy) is a testament to the consistent underinvestment in our squad.
If we had added Sancho last summer to that squad, we might have been in a title race this season rather than falling away in January/February as we did.
So, make no mistake, we won yesterday and are 2nd because of our Academy but have lost this season's title due to the underinvestment by the Glazers.
Thus, Ole won this game with last year's squad that played every game and ran out of gas at the end of last season. That we had only one one Academy-grown 19 year-old on the bench (Greenwood) potential game-changer on the bench while City had Aguero, B Silva and Torres (Foden is, like Greenwood, from their Academy) is a testament to the consistent underinvestment in our squad.
If we had added Sancho last summer to that squad, we might have been in a title race this season rather than falling away in January/February as we did.
So, make no mistake, we won yesterday and are 2nd because of our Academy but have lost this season's title due to the underinvestment by the Glazers.
I think Ole has been great overall. He has been the Lampard of Chelsea but he is actually working out. I am definitely getting Fergie vibes. He knows the Club mentality, doesn't accept divas but can still make them play for the team and overall gets everyone to buy into the team-first mentality.
Regarding Woodwards fault I entirely agree with everyone who says that. We should have never hired Moyes. Once Moyes was hired and sacked LVG was the only choice available.
Woodward then messed up everything by sacking LVG and bringing in Jose.
Woodward then messed up everything by sacking LVG and bringing in Jose.
Yep. It was obvious when we were top in January we needed strengthening.
It was obvious in the Summer we needed a quality RW like Sancho.
The Glazers ambition is top 4. It will be part of their business plan. We have just got to hope that Ole can spend his £75m per season wisely enough and get lucky enough to build a premiership winning team. Odds are against us.
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Exactly
They will not take us to the next level because they are grasping parasitical, wankstain Fagins who have dry raped this establishment of football left right and centre.
If they had got their finger out and bought Sancho and a top CD we would be in a title race.
But their apologists AKA Ole Outers give them the benefit of the doubt.
Odds are very much against us considering our squad is quite a long way behind City's and I'm sure they'll keep spending.
Before going into "It is all Glazers fault" or "It is all the manager's fault", can we establish a consensus on how transfers are made at the club.
What is the role of manager in it? Does he simply say the kind of positions he want or the kind of players he wants or the quality of players he is looking for? Or does he straight away give a few names that he wants?
Who negotiates all the price? Are they competent enough to bring down prices? Do they report only to Woodward or do they talk about numbers to the manager? Or do they just see how much money they can afford and throw it at the clubs?
Does the manager have any say in the negotiated price? Does Woodward's team unilaterally accept/reject price negotiations?
Do scouts give their list to the manager all the time? Does the manager already have some names in mind? Does he put in a priority list out?
I think without enough information, it is a bit short sighted to accuse one over the other.
What is the role of manager in it? Does he simply say the kind of positions he want or the kind of players he wants or the quality of players he is looking for? Or does he straight away give a few names that he wants?
Who negotiates all the price? Are they competent enough to bring down prices? Do they report only to Woodward or do they talk about numbers to the manager? Or do they just see how much money they can afford and throw it at the clubs?
Does the manager have any say in the negotiated price? Does Woodward's team unilaterally accept/reject price negotiations?
Do scouts give their list to the manager all the time? Does the manager already have some names in mind? Does he put in a priority list out?
I think without enough information, it is a bit short sighted to accuse one over the other.
Two things need to happen. for him to be on the same track as Fergie.
1) Ruthlessness, I see signs but not yet there.
2) Able to recognize your own shortcomings and build a staff to complement that. I have NOT seen any signs.
I dont know and I dont care what Carrick or Ole's responsibilities are in training. To me, They are a coaching team, Ole is their leader. They fail or succeed together ( shooting down that "what Mike Phelan does" thread ). Fergie was the greatest manager I have seen in any business and the reason was, he was able to identify his own weaknesses and build a team to complement that. Look how quickly his assistant coaches kept changing. You know the reason? to keep training etc fresh and new.
I hope ole is smart enough to see that and act accordingly. And I still say , this is not working out.
Weird take. He chooses not to use VDB. we also have Telles in reserve. Its a choice. You can;t just ignore manager's selection when he decides not to use players. Most of City's line up were there last season but Pep actually starts his new players and knows how to use them.
For all the moaning about the Glazers not buying Sancho, we've consistency outspent everyone apart from City.
Sources: https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...-net-spent-per-trophy-over-the-last-10-years/
This has us at double the net spend of everyone else over the last ten years apart from City.
Source: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/tra...&nat=&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0
This has us at 500 million, to City's 550 million and at least 200 million ahead of everyone else over the last 5 years.
I don't like the Glazers but they have spent money. The idea that the other half a billion doesn't count because they didn't try hard enough to get Sancho in one window and so Ole is working on a shoestring budget is a fantasy.
Agreed. Money was mis-spent rather than not spent. I do think we've started to address that, though. We seem to be aiming to pay more reasonable transfer fees and wages recently.
Definitely. Bruno was the best signing in the league since VVD. Maguire is good (though overpriced), Cavani has been good and VdB should be playing more. I've read that the scouting department was overhauled a few years ago and hopefully we're starting to benefit from that.
I liked that we avoided the Bale signing. We would have made that mistake a few years back imo.
I thought it was a no-brainer for the board after getting burnt (repeatedly) from that Sanchez deal.
Sigh, the Glazer's have spent money but Woodward's history in the transfer market is abysmal.
Cavani wants to leave – three injuries so far – small wonder why no other club wanted to touch him.
HIs signing has rattled Martial's confidence
Van De Beek – 42 million signing, and he’s played less minutes than Virgil Van Dyke
David De Gea – Re signs a 4 year old deal at lucrative price that makes him virtually unsellable (In hindsight United may have had no choice there)
Dean Henderson – Fails to put him out on loan last summer, now United have the problem of two top goal keepers competing for the top spot, Henderson is more than likely going to want to leave.
Nemanja Matic – Signs a 32 year old to a new 3 year deal, United should be buying a CDM, and keeping Fred on the bench....hard to do now, whose going to buy Matic at his age?
Phil Jones – Sings Phil Jones to a new 5 year contract making him unsellable???? 5 years? WTF!
Fred – 65 million, I like Fred but 65 million???
Romela Lukaku – Signs Lukaku for 93 million, sells him two years later at a 12 mill loss
(If not for Ronaldo he would be the top scorer in Serie A at present)
Alexis Sanchez – Signs him from Arsenal to a lucrative deal that almost made him virtually impossible to get rid of, another historic dud
Paul Pogba – Sings a record deal of $115 million, he is unhappy wants to leave, endless drama with the agent, United will most likely sell him at a quite a loss
Angel Di Maria – High record price at the time for a dud sold a year later at a loss.
I'm sure I'm missing a few more poor signing and gaffs.
The Glazer's must be patient men, because if that was my tract record I'd be out of a job.
Cavani wants to leave – three injuries so far – small wonder why no other club wanted to touch him.
HIs signing has rattled Martial's confidence
Van De Beek – 42 million signing, and he’s played less minutes than Virgil Van Dyke
David De Gea – Re signs a 4 year old deal at lucrative price that makes him virtually unsellable (In hindsight United may have had no choice there)
Dean Henderson – Fails to put him out on loan last summer, now United have the problem of two top goal keepers competing for the top spot, Henderson is more than likely going to want to leave.
Nemanja Matic – Signs a 32 year old to a new 3 year deal, United should be buying a CDM, and keeping Fred on the bench....hard to do now, whose going to buy Matic at his age?
Phil Jones – Sings Phil Jones to a new 5 year contract making him unsellable???? 5 years? WTF!
Fred – 65 million, I like Fred but 65 million???
Romela Lukaku – Signs Lukaku for 93 million, sells him two years later at a 12 mill loss
(If not for Ronaldo he would be the top scorer in Serie A at present)
Alexis Sanchez – Signs him from Arsenal to a lucrative deal that almost made him virtually impossible to get rid of, another historic dud
Paul Pogba – Sings a record deal of $115 million, he is unhappy wants to leave, endless drama with the agent, United will most likely sell him at a quite a loss
Angel Di Maria – High record price at the time for a dud sold a year later at a loss.
I'm sure I'm missing a few more poor signing and gaffs.
The Glazer's must be patient men, because if that was my tract record I'd be out of a job.
Just optimises the fact we need a bloody Sporting Director, quickly!!
When you put it that way........ouch.
At any other club the charlatans in charge would be hounded out.
Signed Bruno once the fans went tonto at EW house
Signed Cavani as a panic buy after chasing Sancho all summer
No DoF as EW thinks he knows the football side which he clearly doesnt
Ole only in charge as hes the buffer between the fans and the idiots incharge. Aslong as he gets us top 4 or as close to as possible he will be here.
Nothing will change and we wont win anything with him in charge
Signed Bruno once the fans went tonto at EW house
Signed Cavani as a panic buy after chasing Sancho all summer
No DoF as EW thinks he knows the football side which he clearly doesnt
Ole only in charge as hes the buffer between the fans and the idiots incharge. Aslong as he gets us top 4 or as close to as possible he will be here.
Nothing will change and we wont win anything with him in charge
Important to remember Woodward and judges terrible negotiations due to their incompetentcy goes a long way to explains the inflated net spend. Was clear from day 1 with the Fellaini fiasco.
That said the Glazers are shit owners for a few reasons. Money wasted because of their debt that they crippled the club with. Lack of improvements or maintaining of Old Trafford. And finally such a lack of interest in the football side of things that they have allowed Woodward to run the club despite failing at it from football point if view .
They are shite owners for those reasons.
That said with the money we have spent we could have been a well run club and brilliant financially for them. If Woodward wasn't running the club we and the Glazers really could have had it both ways.
So other than the disgraceful leveraged buyout the lack of punishment for Woodward is their biggest crime.
You only need to look at our RW and striker situations to see how shite we are run.
We haven't had a RW since Nani practically.
And for striker we sign or loan 30+ year olds every other year as yet another stop gap
A real club makes a plan and buys a top class striker by now.
You think city will sign 4 30+ year old strikers in the next six years? Not a chance. They'll identify who they want long-term and have them signed this summer or the next. No faffing about.
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Aye. I mean, it's actually hard to blame Woodward for making a lot of those deals. His managers want players, so he gets them, even if it costs more. Giving prime De Gea a huge contract is hardly a problem, but we needed someone to maybe see he is on his way down. Same for getting Alexis, who on his best may have been worth that contract.
Fair point, but the problem with Woodward is that he continually signs players to lucrative deals that makes them impossible to get rid of.
I don't think Ole wanted a 32 year old Matic signed to a three year deal....he doesn't seem to be his biggest fan.
A five year deal for injury prone Phil Jones?
The Sanchez contract made him nearly impossible to get rid of.
Part of being successful in the transfer market is the ability to move players out quickly at a good premium,...Woodward has shown to be abysmal at this.
One could argue that this is more SAF fault than glazer woodward. If he had not gone out on a limb recomending Moyes as much as he did, we would be in a totally different position today. Not saying we would have found the perfect manager and we lived happily ever after, but maybe we would have had someone who did not decide to get rid of all the backroom Staff and had a name that star players were attracted to and managed to was able to land proper improvements.