It's been eight fecking years Kung Pao Chicken. It's like blaming your ex from high school why you are such a cnut to women today.
This is all Woodward, the Glazers’ fault
- Thread starter Crustanoid
- Start date
Moyes was here for around 8 months, that wasn't the reason why we are here today, it's the wrong appointments and wasting nearly a billion pounds since SAF retirement.
After we sacked Moyes, club from championship have won PL, club who was going nowhere won PL, CL and then back to their average levels and many other clubs achieved so much in that time. One wrong appointment shouldn't haunt us for 9 years. That's a lame excuse.
We've spent an absolute fortune. Mostly on dross but we've still spent it.
Maybe Woodward does veto signings but we've still spent an absolute ton on players.
Yes, yes the Glazers underspent for many years under Sir Alex and I get that some people see this as only fair.
It's just we really have spent a ton.
For me, the major issue is that we've signed players that don't fit our ethos and/or not good enough.
Since Sir Alex retired we've bought a ton of players but how many would you rate as a great purchase? A few? Less?
It makes me wonder who we would have under Sir Alex and I do reckon Maguire would be a good bet but also Harry Kane.
I'm rambling a bit here, so back on topic.
It's easy to blame the owners but I don't know what else they could've done.
Maybe Woodward does veto signings but we've still spent an absolute ton on players.
Yes, yes the Glazers underspent for many years under Sir Alex and I get that some people see this as only fair.
It's just we really have spent a ton.
For me, the major issue is that we've signed players that don't fit our ethos and/or not good enough.
Since Sir Alex retired we've bought a ton of players but how many would you rate as a great purchase? A few? Less?
It makes me wonder who we would have under Sir Alex and I do reckon Maguire would be a good bet but also Harry Kane.
I'm rambling a bit here, so back on topic.
It's easy to blame the owners but I don't know what else they could've done.
Moyes had the pre explosion market to work with and signed Fellaini, unforgivable.
While it’s a poor excuse, the real damage was done in the SAF era when the Glazers penny pinched him and we replaced Ronaldo with Valencia and couldn’t afford Hazard etc.
Which shows how great a manager he was to keep us competitive and winning titles during those times.
Must be the most stupid argument ever.
If you’re happy with Ole, Phelan, the clear out, the huge amounts of patience they’ve been shown in very dark moments, and the squad they are building, you simply have to give Woodward & the Glazers lots of credit for that.
Hell, not giving into Dortmund’s silly demands is part of the Ole project, as with Bruno we’ve shown that we’ll wait for the right player at the right price, rather than scattergun it a la LVG. The club can do that with Ole on board & I have little doubt Sancho, like Bruno will be a United player next season, for a much lower price.
No, what happened in Moyes season and SAF season has nothing to do with why we are poor today. We have spent enough money to build a club from scratch to PL winning team.
We made mistakes in hiring wrong managers, if we hired Pep or Klopp we would have had 1 or 2 PL titles already.
But neither wanted to join so its really a moot argument. Klopp is widely quoted as saying we were pitching an adult version of Disneyland to him when he was approached for the job. i.e out of touch with how a football club should be run. That lies at Woodward feet.
Well yeah, that's the point. It has nothing to do with Moyes or SAF. It's on Woodward and whoever is running the club.
Those 2 are just examples. Also regarding Klopp, I think it's more to do with the timing, we approached him when he was at Dortmund. Should have sacked Van Gaal when Klopp resigned.
You can't succeed if you don't take risks, and that includes spending big transfer fees and giving big contracts to players who can make a difference.
If you think you're signing prime Alexis Sanchez, you believe you're getting one of the best attacking players in the world, so it makes sense to give him a big contract. You shouldn't be thinking about a situation in which you'll want to get rid of him. The problem is, you haven't got someone to tell you 'he's past his prime'.
I certainly agree about Matic or especially Jones, but again, it's about someone from the footballing department telling you not to do it.
I wouldn't blame Woodward for making those deals. I'll blame him for not setting up a system or bringing in someone who'll make sure we avoid those.
Well, you could easily argue we didn’t buy the right players if we are going to look at it in black and white.
My point was they didn’t invest correctly for SAF, they then hired the wrong people and the recruitment has been poor mostly.
Yeah, that's again the point. It has nothing to do with hiring Moyes. He was just one manager who didn't complete the season. People blaming him for our current struggles are looking at wrong person.
I'll agree to disagree, I've seen this in the past whereby a CEO who has no experience in the sport, starts to run a club into the ground, because they think that awarding players with overextended lucrative contracts is the way to go.
United desperately need a sporting director who can work independently from him. Woodward needs to be shipped back to the sales and marketing department where he belongs.
I can't defend Woodward, I think he is the biggest problem at United, and he has to go
It's also a bad argument because any one who wants Ole out must also blame the glazers for his being here. The guy you quoted simply assumes anyone that doesn't buy the "spend excuse" is pro-glazer. In reality we all blame the Glazers for the current crapshow but for different reasons. Personally think money isn't an excuse for Ole. All sympathies went out the window when he sanctioned spending 130m on Maguire and AWB. If he was given more it looked like he was going to spunk it on the likes of Longstaff.
It also doesn't seem to matter who we buy or how much we spend. The squad always seems perpetually locked in a state of not good enough
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When you have a CEO bragging about the futures bright and mentions how many twitter users are signing into Utd, and no one asks why aint the team winning trophies, you know that its all about the money and not the club. Back when he took over from Gill, Deadwood Woodward stated that the words football club had disappeared from the badge and that was one of the things he was going to put right, as first and foremost its a football club, not a business. The fact that its never happened speaks volumes. Will we get a DOF. I think we eventually will if we continue to stumble along trophyless and the fanbase dwindles. The penny will eventually drop, but only because revenue is falling.
Nah. One season does not cause this. That's is ridiculous.
Woodward and the Glazers are just incompetent.
Aye, and blame them for not sacking him. If they are strong Ole-out, they'd blame them for being so stupid to hire a manager from the Norwegian Eliteserien, for being happy with what they see as shit, or stagnation, for being happy to have a guy in the hot seat who "won't rock the boat" etc etc etc.
In every way you look at it, it's a fecking terrible argument, beyond stupid once given a split second's thought, which @Crustanoid clearly hasn't.
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They own the club. Why not hire the correct sports science people and sporting directors like FSG have done?
They let Woodward run a failing football club. And they have done so for years. Worst thing is all our higher ups are Woodward's mates from college. So when the hiring criteria for Man United is are you a mate of Woodward's do tell me that they couldn't have done more.
Of course they are to blame......
I agree that we need Woodward away from the footballing side of the club, so someone would have to come in and take care of all football matters, but for me there would be a problem if that person had to report to Woodward, they would need to answer directly to the board for me.
Another issue would be how much control that 'Sporting Director' had, would they have total control over selecting which player the club needs, the actual transfer of that player, and arranging the contract of that player.
A lot of posters think we may move three or four players out, and bring three or four players in this summer, but I can't see that from previous years, but possibly over the next three windows probably.
Going back to the op, the buck always stops at the top, with the people who make the final decision, so yes, the Glazers and Woodward for me have leeched a lot from our great club, and continue to do so, the day they go I will celebrate.
We've just never made the right appointment, that's my main gripe, in hindsight. I backed Moyes and Jose but even I can hold my hands up and admit I was wrong. I think Moyes came at the wrong time and isn't as bad as we made him look, but an Ancelotti type appointment after Fergie would have bridged that gap much better.
Should be another fun summer. We will be inactive for the first month or so while City and Chelsea strengthen. Twitter will be full of anti-Woodward sentiment followed by a signing or two in the final few weeks of the window. I would guess a net spend of roughly £50 million.
Bollocks. The ultimate decision was with the board. Even after that, Moyes is a tiny part of the last 7 years of mistakes and we barely wasted any transfer spend with him.
We all know how it will pan out. We will be inactive but reports with some of the best players. I can see alot of reports linking us to Kounde, Haaland, Sancho for the month and us signing Sarr in the final weeks.
Its all too predictable these days, the club use these rumours to drive up twitter following and activity.
Totally agree with this. Fergie barely spent after the Glazers came in, you can see this if you look back through our transfer ins and outs when he was trying to clear the Glazer debt so our club didn't crumble financially.
The level of debt the Glazers put on the club was fiscally irresponsible and a massive risk to the club. Ferguson helped to mitigate that risk.
FSG have done so well they are about to finish as one of the worst Premier League winners fecking ever, without even a Champions League place, all due to utterly awful planning and reliance on Klopp's genius.
The credit FSG have gotten due to how amazing Klopp is has always blown me away, take away Klopp and you're back to a Brenton situation of shit buys and nothingness.
Gill in fairness, he was the CEO that green lighted Moyes.
Gill was also leaving. The board knew this and picked his successor, they choose Woodward, who was already working at the club. There is no way Woodward and/or the board had zero input on that decision to hire Moyes.
They was no way a non-footballing man, was deciding anything at that stage over the current CEO and Fergie, two footballing men.
Blame Ed and the board for everything post Moyes, but Moyes was clearly on Gill.
Which means the problem is the Glazers, are they are keeping him.
That's just the way it is. If the players are good enough, you look at the manager who brought them. If it's a problem with the manager and players, you look at whoever is running the system/choosing them. If it's a problem with the CEO, you look higher at the people keeping him in his job...
I don't mind the net spend aspect, with the way COVID is we could be canny operators in the market; hypothetically we could sell Pogba and one of DDG/Henderson (assuming the agitation behind the scenes means we have to make a move on them) and bring in Donarumma for nothing and 3 first teamers with the money generated from those sales plus the net £50 mil. Have our homework done on what players we need and focus on the clubs that need to sell and we could strengthen for relatively cheap and not put the club at extra risk of financial ruin cos of COVID.
What we can't do is leave it so late yet again. We didn't panic buy in January, we didn't dip into our summer budget, we know the areas we need to strengthen in now so I hope it all adds up to a calm and planned out transfer window that is executed quickly and early.
This is Ed Woodward and the Glazers we are talking about. We will not have done our homework, we will not be calm and planned in the summer.
There are so many questions that remain unanswered, and will be after the window too.
Can we sell DDG with his wages? If not, who is number 1?
What do we need more? CB, CDM, RW or ST?
If the title is not in reach, why not give Diallo some minutes, it may mean we don't need a RW urgently.
Will Cavani stay?
What happens with Pogba?
I just feel that there are too many issues we need to sort out before we go and buy players.
Blind as a bat man.
Their sporting director is clearly very good and negotiates some great deals.
They also have some great people behind the scenes. Perhaps the best example of this is Klopp wanting Julian Brandt over Salah. But Liverpools transfer committee convinced him that Salah was the better choice. That worked out well huh.
Sure Klopp is what brings it all together and elevates them but they are infinitely better run than us.
And you know the reason why? Because FSG are learning and trying new things when they fail. The glazers aren't changing how the club is run or by whom.
All you can ask from owners is to try really and ours don't.
FSG aren't the perfect owners but as far as if they are better than the Glazers it is night and day.
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The Woodward Glazer defending is actually disgusting. If they where is any way decent we wouldn't be the absolute joke they let us become. Failing once or twice is fine. Not learning from mistakes for 8 years is not.
I really don't get it. Why defend them? Why are people so afraid to admit we are simply one of the worst run clubs in world football when you consider the size of the club.
I really don't get it. Why defend them? Why are people so afraid to admit we are simply one of the worst run clubs in world football when you consider the size of the club.
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Mata aswell
Can we sell DDG with his wages? If not, who is number 1? I think Ole will go with Henderson provided he doesn't fluff his lines from here on out. he's just kept a clean sheet in a manchester Derby, i think it would be difficult to tell him he hasn't earned a run, especially given DDG's patchy form at best. Then it will be up to DDG to look for a move or be content with 2nd choice, I am fine with either scenario.
What do we need more? CB, CDM, RW or ST? We need a CB and CDM for sure, then one of the RW or ST and that boils down to whether we think Greenwood can step up to ST or Dialo can step up to RW.
If the title is not in reach, why not give Diallo some minutes, it may mean we don't need a RW urgently. If Spurs, West ham and Eveton win their game in hand that means we're only 6 points off 7th place. While the title is gone we need to push home our advantage and have top4 guaranteed before we take a risk on Diallo. I'd be more inclined to give him minutes in the Europa.
Will Cavani stay? i don't think he will, not enough return for his salary. Maybe if we prioritise RW but even then, i'd prefer Mason to step up.
What happens with Pogba? Who knows. fair enough he will be a free agent the summer after this one, but even at that it seems clubs will struggle to pay him 300K+ a week even without having to buy him. Can see him eventually signing a contract.
I guess we’ll see what happens after this season, if Liverpool are the same side next year. I’m especially interested to see what happens with them once Klopp leaves.
We’ll see you then if they just did well on a few transfers and got lucky especially with such an incredible manager, or if they are that well run.
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Yep. But even Brendan with less resources did better than us so it's kind of a moot point.
What we do know is FSG will actively try improve and try fix things. The Glazers never will.
We think Ole will make these decisions but who knows? Ideal scenario is we sell DDG and get a second keeper that will be good enough.
I do not think we will spend that much money to get 3 players that we need, which is the problem. I get the issue in regards of top 4, its still very tight, a few bad results and we wont get it but if we cannot trust him for 20 mins per game, then surely he will need another couple seasons before he starts?
Greenwood isn't really a starter yet either, he seems to come in and out the team.
Eh? What did Brenton achieve that Mourinho didn't and more?
Did he even achieve what LVG did?
Did this same crew of sport scientists and advisors convince Klopp that Thiago would be good fit? or that not strengthening at the back was smart? Or that bringing in a shit CB from Germany on the super cheap in January would be a smart solution to their massive defensive issues that might cost them the CL?
Yeah I'm not buying it, Rodgers time saw a lot of shit brought into Liverpool and it'll take a little more to convince me it hasn't just been the Klopp effect and 2-3 jackpot signings. We'll see.
You missed the main point of my post again. The point is when they make mistakes They change things up and will clearly continue to do so if needed.
We don't. Hence Woodward Judge and all his mates still running things terribly.
If Woodward and the Glazers went out and got a load of experienced people in football after LVG it's hard to argue we wouldn't be in a better position.
But no same idiots running a failing club for 8 years. No changes other than managers while even they don't seem to plan for.
For an investment call, bragging about money and twitter followers is what he should be doing. Why should investors care about whether the team is winning trophies or not. They only care about the financial gain aspect of it. This is why Arsenal owners loved Wenger, with 0 money he got top 4 every year which is perfect for the investors.