This is what Southgate played for

[JG3001]

United fans have had to endure two of the worst in game management performances in a final, in the space of about a month.

Ole at least has the excuse of a poor bench.

He could have been the hero last night and gone for the kill after the first goal, shut up all the critics about his tactical ability, but reverted to type when it mattered most. As many, many others have pointed out, ultimately he didn’t learn from the Croatia WC semi-final and it’s pretty unforgivable in my eyes. The better team won, but the game was there for the taking.

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

Italy were comfortably the better side today, England were fortunate it went to penalties

Agreed, still stands that none of the players bottled it. The manager didn’t want them to play and refused to try and get a 2nd goal. So again, it’s all on Southgate.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Sad thing is, Southgate has a job for life now.

Think that is true. He will get us far in tournaments and the media will say we are a force in world football, but unless he gets braver and actually tries to win games we will not progress. Why play for penalties when we are rubbish at them. Get the game won.

 

[Mb194dc]

Southgate is just a very limited manager. That should surprise no one.

You can play 3 at the back with wing backs and play high up the pitch, with counter pressing and dominate games, turning over possession high up the pitch creating chances. That is how Tuchel has been playing it with Chelsea last season, we just lacked a finisher. Pretty much always dominate possession and Xg in every match.

Can't expect Southgate to coach that, so he played defensive all Euros, we came up against mediocre opposition till Italy so we got away with it. Can't really think of an English manager who would be any better that Southgate though honestly.

 

[The Cat]

As an outsider I was very puzzled why he didn't bring Grealish on for Mount after 70 mins.

Mount had done little of note and England couldn't keep the ball. It was crying out for Grealish to get some posession back.

Even if he was still over cautious he should have made that change my household were all calling for it at the time.

It really wouldn't have been much of a gamble at all - opportunity missed.

 

[Alex99]

It's a difficult one. As much as I think that final was there to be won by England, and the only person to blame for them not getting over the line is Southgate, he was a penalty shootout away from managing England to their first major honour in 55 years, only their second in history, and their first ever Euros. I 100% agree that Mancini managed the game better, but again, it went to penalties. It's weird to be sat here lamenting want feel like very obvious shortcomings with Southgate when compared to Mancini, when the result was actually very, very close.

Had that fixture been played at a neutral venue, I think Italy would have been slight favourites. With it being at Wembley, the scales tipped towards England and they went in as slight favourites. The squads were pretty comparable, I feel, and I think it's perhaps a little unfair to suggest that it was despite Southgate that England reached the final. Up until last night (perhaps also the semi-final), I thought the way he set the team out and the changes he made during the game were pretty much spot on.

I think he set up well for the start of the game and England had Italy on the backfoot for much of the first half (the early goal certainly helped). Italy changed their system slightly and started to grow into the game towards the end of the half, but aside from one long-range effort from Chiesa that was dragged wide, England stopped them creating anything of any real note. It was somewhat similar to the Ukraine match in the quarter final, and I thought for sure that England weren't going to sit as deep in the second half and may even strike early in the half to effectively kill the game. Kane had been doing well dropping deep and that had allowed Sterling and Mount to both find themselves in dangerous positions on the attack, Trippier and Shaw were causing problems on the flanks, and Phillips, Rice, Walker, Stones and Maguire had done very well to stifle pretty much every Italian attack.

It was evident pretty quickly that it wasn't going to continue like that and Italy started to find some space that wasn't there for them in the first half. England were pinned back, and you could see that if it continued like that, Italy were likely to score. Trippier and Walker had started to let Chiesa cut inside and become a bigger danger, Rice and Phillips were no longer able to contain the runs from midfield, and when England did get the ball, the front three weren't providing the necessary outball as they had been in the first half. It was obvious that something needed to change, and despite 20 minutes of the second half passing and England (perhaps miraculously) still leading, Southgate did nothing.

Saka was a strange choice of substitute after the equaliser as it was obvious England needed an option in attack that would be happy to drive forwards with the ball, and Sancho, Grealish and Rashford were all sat on the bench. Previously, Rice was the only player really attempting this, but unfortunately he lacked the ability to make anything of it, and almost every time he drove forwards, he hesitated with a pass, ran into a blind alley, and ended up losing the ball and finding himself way out of position. Henderson was a better change and actually helped England get up the pitch by dictating the press and offering a bit more experience in midfield, but he should have been on for Rice while they were still a goal up, not fighting against the Italian momentum to stay in the game.

Waiting until there was just five minutes left of the first half of extra-time to bring Grealish on was another baffling choice, as was waiting until stoppage time in the second half of extra time to bring on Rashford and Sancho, especially when the latter two were brought on for Henderson and Walker. Saka had been very obviously out of his depth pretty much since he stepped foot on the pitch, and Sterling was dead on his feet. Bringing on any two of Grealish/Sancho/Rashford before the end of normal time, or at the very latest, the beginning of extra time, would have given England a decent chance to get that won before the end of the 120 minutes.

Once you get to penalties, you obviously don't make players take them that don't want to take them, but to have two players who were basically making their first kick of the game in the biggest penalty shootout the country has ever seen, and a 19 year old that was clearly not coping with the occasion taking the three most important kicks was just another insane choice.

All of that said, it was on a knife-edge and won and lost in the proverbial lottery of a penalty shootout.

I don't know what the FA do here. On one hand, Southgate has created a real togetherness about the group, and regardless of last night's result, has exorcised a number of historical demons in just two tournaments, and is probably England's second most successful manager. He's got his tactics and in-game decisions spot on far more often than not, despite leaning heavily towards the pragmatic, and although many, probably even Southgate himself, think it was the pragmatism that cost England last night, it's also something he can definitely learn from going forwards. There's a lot to be said for stability and this is a team that's still improving. The World Cup is 18 months away and I'm not convinced that a managerial change will do the side any favours.

I do think there's room for England to be a bit more adventurous, but I wholeheartedly disagree with the hordes bemoaning England "wasting" the attacking talent available. You can't have all (or even most of) Foden, Mount, Grealish, Rashford, Sterling, Sancho and Kane in the same team and expect a balanced side. You can't look back at the supposed "golden" generation and point at how Lampard and Gerrard were never going to work in the side together because it wasn't balanced, then call for the current manager to pick a group of 4-6 players based on name as if it's fantasy football.

I think he's more than earned the role for the World Cup, but I do think that expectations can be high going into it. I'm not sure it's fair to expect them to be lifting the trophy at the end of it, but I do think that the semi-finals are a reasonable target and should England lose in the semi-finals or final, it needs to not be down to the manager's decision-making (or lack thereof).

 

[VorZakone]

What disappoints me is their two ageing centre halves were both on bookings having committed poor cynical fouls yet we never tried in the last 20 minutes of extra time to stretch them with our fresh legs and all our pace. The option was there to go and win the game yet Southgate preferred to sit tight and try and win a shootout ultimately. That’s the difference.

Not streetwise enough.

 

[Redlambs]

It's a difficult one. As much as I think that final was there to be won by England, and the only person to blame for them not getting over the line is Southgate,

TLDR it's actually not a difficult one. You nailed it with the first line


(Good post though mate, I agree with it).

 

[11101]

We have some of the best attacking talent in world football. Speaking to Italians around here (Italy) they were all scared of Kane, Rashford, Sancho, Foden, and the new guy to them Grealish. Other than Kane those players didn't see 20 minutes between them.

How can we win big games if we leave our best players on the bench? All out of fear they might cross the half way line once or twice. We have a properly talented generation of footballers and we will waste it if we don't change management.

 

[VivaRonaldo85]

United fans have had to endure two of the worst in game management performances in a final, in the space of about a month.

Ole at least has the excuse of a poor bench.

He could have been the hero last night and gone for the kill after the first goal, shut up all the critics about his tactical ability, but reverted to type when it mattered most. As many, many others have pointed out, ultimately he didn’t learn from the Croatia WC semi-final and it’s pretty unforgivable in my eyes. The better team won, but the game was there for the taking.

It was eerily similar to United’s debacle versus Villarreal albeit England had talent coming out their ears on the bench this time.

 

[Ish]

From the 15th minute, he instructed his team to play on the back foot. From the moment Italy scored Southgate set up his team to take them to pens... against an absolute mammoth in goal.

Italy looked terrified at the beginning of the game. England has the best attacking options in the world, and he decided to nullify that at every opportunity. This is all entirely on Southgate. He's got away from it from the off. The quality of the team has mitigated Southgate's negativeness.

He has to go.

Yep, doesn’t have the cojones or tactical ability to manage at the highest level. He’s more interested in not losing than he is with trying to play to England’s strengths - which is strength and depth in attack.

He literally picked 5 defenders, 2 DM’s and a “hard working” winger (Mount). Had Kane play very deep and refused to really change it up at all, even when his attack wasn’t testing an ageing Italian defence. Criminally under used all his bench players/squad: Grealish, Rashford, Sancho, Foden, Bellingham.

 

[VorZakone]

Yep, doesn’t have the cojones or tactical ability to manage at the highest level. He’s more interested in not losing than he is with trying to play to England’s strengths - which is strength and depth in attack.

He literally picked 5 defenders, 2 DM’s and a “hard working” winger (Mount). Had Kane play very deep and refused to really change it up at all, even when his attack wasn’t testing an ageing Italian defence. Criminally under used all his bench players/squad: Grealish, Rashford, Sancho, Foden, Bellingham.

I'm not too fond of Foden but he indeed criminally underused the rest. Worthy of sacking.

 

[horsechoker]

It was eerily similar to United’s debacle versus Villarreal albeit England had talent coming out their ears on the bench this time.

The thing is though Ole has shown he'll trust talented players when they are on the bench he just refuses to make subs if they're not gamechangers. Southgate is completely risk-averse whereas Ole is partially risk-averse.

Although Ole can be frustrating, Southgate is on another level.

 

[Ish]

I'm not too fond of Foden but he indeed criminally underused the rest. Worthy of sacking.

Agreed. Point being, he had a wealth of options, especially in attack but didn't really utilise his squad well at all.

 

[Zlatanator]

I think yesterday's occasion demanded players like Rashford, Sancho to take centre stage because they played for bigger clubs. Rashford played in high-pressure games like the PSG away game and all the games we played against top-6. No disrespect to Grealish and Saka but they never experienced this kind of pressure and they were absolutely outmuscled by the Italians. Simply sending them 15 mins before the end might have made a difference. They might have caused havov with two simple bursts on the flanks.

 

[Alex99]

TLDR it's actually not a difficult one. You nailed it with the first line


(Good post though mate, I agree with it).

It's difficult because it seems very obvious that Southgate was to blame and that Mancini managed the game far better, but at the same time, the tie was very close and ultimately could have gone either way right to the very end. Assuming Pickford still saves Jorginho's penalty, you're talking three inches to the right for Rashford and Donnarumma guessing wrong for Sancho away from this discussion not even being considered.

 

[Redlambs]

It's difficult because it seems very obvious that Southgate was to blame and that Mancini managed the game far better, but at the same time, the tie was very close and ultimately could have gone either way right to the very end. Assuming Pickford still saves Jorginho's penalty, you're talking three inches to the right for Rashford and Donnarumma guessing wrong for Sancho away from this discussion not even being considered.

But that's the whole point isn't it? Nearly every game was exactly like that. Even the German one, Muller scores and it's a very different tie. Southgate started the games how he wanted, and that's literally where the management ended. We can talk all day about maybes, but the fact is when under pressure he was found wanting and badly at that. It's only "obvious that Southgate was to blame" because it's, well obvious that he was to blame. We all could see the mistakes as they were made, whilst Mancini was on the touchline changing things, he sat on his hands waiting. And waiting. And waiting. If it was a one off, that would be different. But it's literally the same 90% of our games under him.

Oh and many of us have been saying this since the world cup, I'm not so sure that last line is accurate at all.

 

[Daysleeper]

Agreed, still stands that none of the players bottled it. The manager didn’t want them to play and refused to try and get a 2nd goal. So again, it’s all on Southgate.

very fair point

 

[Daysleeper]

Definitely, but I don't think this England side is that amazing or anything. The midfield is really mediocre and the biggest talents - Kane and Shaw aside - are very young. Of course Southgate isn't a great manager, but we all know that. There's absolutely no comparison, between Mancini and him, for example.

spot on

 

[Denis79]

Sad thing is, Southgate has a job for life now.

Great with people, average at football. Reminds me of Ole.

 

[Alex99]

But that's the whole point isn't it? Nearly every game was exactly like that. Even the German one, Muller scores and it's a very different tie. Southgate started the games how he wanted, and that's literally where the management ended. We can talk all day about maybes, but the fact is when under pressure he was found wanting and badly at that. It's only "obvious that Southgate was to blame" because it's, well obvious that he was to blame. We all could see the mistakes as they were made, whilst Mancini was on the touchline changing things, he sat on his hands waiting. And waiting. And waiting. If it was a one off, that would be different. But it's literally the same 90% of our games under him.

Oh and many of us have been saying this since the world cup, I'm not so sure that last line is accurate at all.

I actually think he utilised the bench quite well throughout, and it was strange that in the semi-final, and obviously more noticeably the final, he seemed to almost forget about it.

Obviously the Muller moment was massive in the Germany game, but that wasn't England being carved apart by Germans after sustaining pressure for ages, as they were against Italy. That was Sterling playing a dreadful pass to no one and Muller finding himself through on goal. England were deserved winners in every game, including that one.

There are other issues that need analysing, particularly the persistence with Mount and Saka in an already conservative set up at the expense of giving minutes to Grealish, Sancho, and to a lesser extent Rashford. For all of his man-management skill, I don't think he actually managed the squad too well, and it just came to a head in the shoot-out (Grealish volunteering and being put 6th behind Saka, Rashford and Sancho coming on basically to take a penalty after barely featuring all tournament).

 

[MadMike]

Wow the first manager to get England to a major final in 50 plus years and you’re calling for his head you spoilt bastards.

I think calling people spoilt for wanting more than just failures for 55 years given the talent at disposal, is probably peak caf. Well done!

 

[imamuppet]

Despise the media love in with him, not one English commentator willing to engage their brains and speak against the flow.

Bang average manager with no balls.

Why on earth he is talking about "balance" when the England team he setup was so defence minded it should have sank into the ground.

What a waste of the attacking talent at his disposal and the worst thing about it all is that he will probably get a longer contract.

Enough to make a grown man cry ....

 

[littleman]

It's difficult because it seems very obvious that Southgate was to blame and that Mancini managed the game far better, but at the same time, the tie was very close and ultimately could have gone either way right to the very end. Assuming Pickford still saves Jorginho's penalty, you're talking three inches to the right for Rashford and Donnarumma guessing wrong for Sancho away from this discussion not even being considered.

I’m still stunned at people’s inability to digest the game. Italy’s first stringers were 34/36 year old center backs and outside of Verratti in his prime at PSG, do you realize that most other players are fairly junior or unknown?

Per Marcotti -

But, yeah, when you get this far and get to take home the cup it's that much sweeter. Particularly when you can go into your opponent's house and take it from them, after going down a goal, with your fans outnumbered five to one and without one of your best players in the tournament (OK, so Leonardo Spinazzola was there, limping around on his crutches, but he wasn't playing).

Oh, and let's remind ourselves of who was out there for most of extra-time. You had a centre-forward from nearly relegated Torino (Andrea Belotti), two guys from tiny Sassuolo (Manuel Locatelli and Domenico Berardi), Chelsea's third-choice left-back (Emerson) and Juventus' third-string winger (Federico Bernardeschi). Meanwhile, until two minutes from full-time, the likes of Jadon Sancho and Marcus Rashford watched from the sidelines ... but that's another story and one Gareth Southgate can explain in due course.

England weren’t up against an Italian golden generation. This is bits and bobs that Mancini put together.

The repetition of slim margins and chance is really without context of the two sides’ squad and bench, their run up, the home ground advantage and the audience composition (90%+ England).

It’s no surprise — this poor comprehension. It reflects the English team

 

[El Zoido]

We jogged through extra time as if we're a force at pens.
Instead of having a history of losing all the critical ones.

You’d think that with Southgate’s experience in ‘96 he’d have been desperate to avoid a shootout. He just didn’t have the bottle to go for the win and was terrified of losing.

 

[Sandikan]

You’d think that with Southgate’s experience in ‘96 he’d have been desperate to avoid a shootout. He just didn’t have the bottle to go for the win and was terrified of losing.

It's funny, you finish 90, and think 30 is ages.
But when it's 2x15mins and you think how long each individual play is, someone goes down, feigns injury, takes ages to line a free kick up, subs etc, time very quickly evaporates.

I'm sure Rashford was kitted up about 15mins or more before he came on. That was bizarre. Bringing him on as if he's a Cantona-esque pen taker, and not thinking, actually, incredible pace on the break might be what we need to win it properly.

 

[Tapori]

United fans have had to endure two of the worst in game management performances in a final, in the space of about a month.

Ole at least has the excuse of a poor bench.

He could have been the hero last night and gone for the kill after the first goal, shut up all the critics about his tactical ability, but reverted to type when it mattered most. As many, many others have pointed out, ultimately he didn’t learn from the Croatia WC semi-final and it’s pretty unforgivable in my eyes. The better team won, but the game was there for the taking.

Sums it up.
Gareth, ultimately, played it wrong tactically.
Mancini had no holy cows in his teams.

Gareth was passive to Italy's changes and dominance in midfield.
Obvious changes:

Switch shape, take off Trippier and Mount, Sterling and yes even Kane at points in the match, bring on additional midfielder(Bellingham), Rashford, Grealish, Sancho ahead of Saka.

The reason this was so demoralising is that England literally had all the tools to at least attempt to attack and take the game to an aging backline with pace and movement.

Instead we reverted to hold hold hold shape and got deeper.
Kane couldn't hold it up and was awful. Mount played as a young unfinished player and Sterling couldn't find rhythm.
You can only play Southgate's tactics IF you have genuine threat up top but he never ever considered removing Kane, Sterling or Mount when they were clearly not threatening Italy.

I hope he finally learns for Qatar and finds the ability to tweak and fiddle with tactics and subs in the best way to mix his pragmatic approach which is needed at key times, with an actual attacking strategy that includes subbing off your under-performing/ineffective loyal players.

 

[clarkydaz]

You’d think that with Southgate’s experience in ‘96 he’d have been desperate to avoid a shootout. He just didn’t have the bottle to go for the win and was terrified of losing.

Yes, this completely. Its not like he didnt have attacking options to go for it, in a final at Wembley.

 

[shamans]

Terrible defensive manager. Sadly English fans, the majority on media, are so thick: "He got us to a semi final and a final!" without realizing their biggest win during this run was a past it Germany and Colombia on pens

 

[JG3001]

Sums it up.
Gareth, ultimately, played it wrong tactically.
Mancini had no holy cows in his teams.

Gareth was passive to Italy's changes and dominance in midfield.
Obvious changes:

Switch shape, take off Trippier and Mount, Sterling and yes even Kane at points in the match, bring on additional midfielder(Bellingham), Rashford, Grealish, Sancho ahead of Saka.

The reason this was so demoralising is that England literally had all the tools to at least attempt to attack and take the game to an aging backline with pace and movement.

Instead we reverted to hold hold hold shape and got deeper.
Kane couldn't hold it up and was awful. Mount played as a young unfinished player and Sterling couldn't find rhythm.
You can only play Southgate's tactics IF you have genuine threat up top but he never ever considered removing Kane, Sterling or Mount when they were clearly not threatening Italy.

I hope he finally learns for Qatar and finds the ability to tweak and fiddle with tactics and subs in the best way to mix his pragmatic approach which is needed at key times, with an actual attacking strategy that includes subbing off your under-performing/ineffective loyal players.

I said in another thread, assuming the first 90 panned out exactly the same, just bring Rashford and Sancho on for the full extra time, and if we still lost (either by a goal or penalties) I think people would have said fair enough, we went for it. But now we’re left with “what ifs”.

Obviously he won’t be sacked, but I think that the World Cup may be the one where we get knocked out in a QF by the first decent team we come up against, which will kinda prove what many have been saying all along.

 

[Tapori]

I said in another thread, assuming the first 90 panned out exactly the same, just bring Rashford and Sancho on for the full extra time, and if we still lost (either by a goal or penalties) I think people would have said fair enough, we went for it. But now we’re left with “what ifs”.

Obviously he won’t be sacked, but I think that the World Cup may be the one where we get knocked out in a QF by the first decent team we come up against, which will kinda prove what many have been saying all along.

Yep, definitely.

Throwing caution to the wind can still be done pragmatically in ET balancing your gamble, but he didn't even try save for a Grelaish sub midway through.
You can see him weighing up:
"But if they get us on the counter, if they get us, we'll even give up a chance to win on Pens"

And this mental block, with the squad he has at his disposal, he will have to get rid of
He said in immediate post-match:
"I can't just throw every attacker on and lose shape.."

But that's the point Gareth; you have to have moments when you:
Gamble
Take off your underperforming Stalwarts.

Now you could say he is the ultimate Gamble by sticking to his pragmatism and loyalty to players in the face of this barrage of criticism, but most of the changes were obvious to even a Sunday league coach.
Gareth froze and he knows it deep-down but I sincerely hope he learns and reflects for next year. His pragmatism will be needed in those fierce temperatures but he has to battle with himself as to how he rotates, trusts and shapes better attacking play. We simply don't have the players to Greece it to a trophy.

 

[Tomuś]

Swap the managers and England are winning it comfortably.

 

[Ixion]

England have had two tournaments in a row where things went hugely in their favour. Southgate has done a good job but he has also had fortune on his side, this was practically a home tournament for England with only 1 decent test before the Final.

History right there at your feet and England just sat back for nearly the entire game playing at home when you've got the pace and talent to cause them lots of problems.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Think that is true. He will get us far in tournaments and the media will say we are a force in world football, but unless he gets braver and actually tries to win games we will not progress. Why play for penalties when we are rubbish at them. Get the game won.

I don't think so. This play it safe tactics won't work when handed out a difficult draw or a difficult group. Outscore or perish.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I don't think so. This play it safe tactics won't work when handed out a difficult draw or a difficult group. Outscore or perish.

He made a few mistakes last night. We scored, so push home the advantage and score more when we were on top. Didn't react quick enough to Italy changing tactics, instead we let them dominate and equalise. Once it went to ET and their defence was starting to tire, bring pace on. Instead he waited and waited until it was obvious it was going to be penalties and then bring that pace on to take a penalty.

 

[smi11ie]

Southgate made some errors in the final but he is still the most successful England manager in the last 50 years. Tournament is over so it is time to move on.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Southgate made some errors in the final but he is still the most successful England manager in the last 50 years. Tournament is over so it is time to move on.

This kind of soft reaction is going to hold back the England team and waste a generation of attacking talents. The time to act is now and make sure England is a powerful attacking force. It has the resources. Need a proper manager.

Edit: He made errors in semis too, but Sterling's fall saved him.

 

[atkar83]

You’d think that with Southgate’s experience in ‘96 he’d have been desperate to avoid a shootout. He just didn’t have the bottle to go for the win and was terrified of losing.

Once Chiesa went out with the ankle injury, you could tell Italy went into a bit of a shell and wasn't pushing forward much, probably hoping for penalties. There was more than enough time then to get Sancho and Rashford on and bring the attack with 10+ minutes left to see what we could do. Instead he waited till the last minute and right before a free kick where Rashford has to play as a defender. We're lucky we escaped that to even make it to the penalties

 

[Alex99]

I’m still stunned at people’s inability to digest the game. Italy’s first stringers were 34/36 year old center backs and outside of Verratti in his prime at PSG, do you realize that most other players are fairly junior or unknown?

Per Marcotti -



England weren’t up against an Italian golden generation. This is bits and bobs that Mancini put together.

The repetition of slim margins and chance is really without context of the two sides’ squad and bench, their run up, the home ground advantage and the audience composition (90%+ England).

It’s no surprise — this poor comprehension. It reflects the English team

Junior and unknown? What a strange description of the Italian side from someone claiming that others have "poor comprehension".

Donnarumma has been playing senior football for AC Milan since 2015, made his Italy debut in 2016, and his been their first choice keeper since 2018.

Di Lorenzo has played almost 100 games for a good Napoli side, including every game they've played in the Champions League over the past two seasons.

The centre backs you're so desperate to paint as geriatrics are one of the best pairings to ever play the game, with an insane number of minutes played together for both club and country, and both remain very good players, despite their ages.

Jorginho is a very experienced midfielder that has played at the highest level for the best part of 10 years now, both for Napoli and Chelsea, and recently won the Champions League with the latter.

Barella has been a mainstay in the Inter Milan side that has just won Serie A.

Verratti is an incredibly talented midfielder with a decade of experience at the top level with PSG.

Chiesa was one of the players of the tournament and has over 150 appearances in Serie A.

Insigne is another to be a mainstay at a top Italian side, having played over 300 times in Serie A, and almost 400 times in total for a good Napoli side.

Immobile is also a very experienced professional at the top level, having scored 20+ goals in four of the last five seasons in Serie A, including the 2019/20 season where he scored 36 in 37 appearances.

The only player somewhat out of place was Emerson, and even then he's played in a Europa League final win and made 9 CL appearances.

Even the subs Italy brought on were very experienced players. Cristante has over 100 appearances for Roma in three seasons, Berardi and Locatelli both first teamers for a "tiny" Sassuolo side that have very much established themselves as a top half Serie A side over the past two seasons, Belotti a very well known striker that has a consistently good goalscoring record and has repeatedly been a target for top clubs, and Bernardeschi that has made almost 30 league appearances for Juventus in each of the last three seasons, as well as making 21 CL appearances. Even Florenzi, who came on for the last couple of minutes, is an extremely experienced professional with almost 300 appearances for Roma, over 40 caps for Italy, and even spent last season at PSG making near 40 appearances.

As for the "bits and bobs" Mancini threw together, this was a team that has been on a record-breaking unbeaten run, and of the players that featured in the final, only one of those had fewer than 10 caps coming into the tournament (Di Lorenzo), only an additional four had fewer than 20 (Locatelli, Cristante, Berardi, Emerson), 12 had more than 20 caps, eight had more than 40, and two more than 100.

For comparison, three of England's players had fewer than 10 caps at the start of the tournament (Phillips, Saka, Grealish), with another four having fewer than 20 (Shaw, Mount, Rice, Sancho), only nine had more than 20, and only 6 of them had more than 40. Eight of the players that featured for England in the final were aged 25 or under going into the tournament, double the number in the same age group for Italy.

If you'd read my other post, you'd see that I'd acknowledged England's (mainly Southgate's) shortcomings, and would have been able to "comprehend" why I'd explained things in the way I had in relation to fine margins. Instead, you decided to be incredibly condescending about "the English", yet managed to make yourself look extremely foolish by describing an incredibly experienced Italian side (one far more experienced than England's) as "junior and unknown", based entirely on the giddy postings of an Italian journalist looking to rub a bit of salt into the English wound.

 

[Charlie Foley]

Pickford apparently was number 6 to take one? So Jack “I wanted to take one” Grealish was number 7 at best? Why?

England really fecked this tournament up