What a moronic question, as if these are the only two options available to Mourinho. And he’s not even achieving the latter anyway.
To those against Mourinho...
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Or you just read that on football365 lol!
No manager would with Jones, Smalling, Lindelof and Bailly playing as they are.
He signed two of those, so the responsibility is at the very least partly his.
They kind of are because the defense is so shit he needs to play ultra defensive to protect them and grind out a result. But then people like you complain like you did last year and he's obliged to go entertain, and then shit like this happens vs Spurs.
He just needs to win the next few games, which shouldn't be that hard and then take it from there.
I have this weird feeling that we will turn it around and go on a mad run of games. That post match press conference showed a bit of passion from Mourinho. I know he likes to have a world vs us mentality. We saw it at Chelsea and R Madrid. I just wonder if last weeks events will kick this team into gear and we'll see more of a fight. Just being the optimist I guess.
No one is saying otherwise. He wanted to correct his own mistake quickly. He didn't want to tread water instead. And careful when you say "he signed".....thats you choosing when Ed left him to his own devices and interfered.....which we know he's been doing since he brought in Di Maria!
Both those teams had good defences.....here a good run is near on impossible.
He needs to stop with this BS siege mentality, I'm so tired of the negative press. Secondly, create a functioning team, I'll even waiver good to watch football for a team that actually looks like a high-end professional football team. Lastly, he needs to get results, that is literally the only selling point he has as a manager and he's not doing it. By results, I mean some semblance of a title challenge and pushing through to the later stages of CL.
Which defensive pairing will get us to the latter stages....why are half the posters on here believing we can achieve something with this defence.... I'm completely lost with people thinking it's possible for Jose to turn it around with the same error prone horrendous defenders? I mean I'd take Burnley's CB pairing and be rightfully more confident.....
Pretty much sums it up. If we should learn anything from history, its that once it starts going downhill with Mouhrino, there is no turning back
I actually feel quite sad for Jose never nice for a legend like him to be in this situation but he does share the blame too.
Because surely he's either not getting the most out of the players which in itself is an issue as he's on his third year now and you don't really have an identity as a team. Its similar to us with Conte last year where you rely more on individual quality going forward instead of a style of play.
Your team shouldn't be caving in and playing like this as you pretty much lost no players yet finished 2nd last year (a fact which everyone was constantly reminded of leading up to this season), if you fell a bit short of the title then yeah fair enough you can point to him not being backed but I don't feel getting convincingly beat by Spurs at home for the first time in 8 years is due to you not getting one CB.
If its not due to his managing and its just because the players are so poor (obviously not the case) then didn't he sign most of these? The glaring holes in your midfield not protecting the back 4, Matic, Fred both Mourinho signings?
Smalling, Jones might be poor and Jose might have been denied another CB by Woodward but they play games due to the fact the 2 he signed Bailly and Lindelof cant be trusted in equal measure.
What I will say which is fair credit to him is Shaw's current form, been really impressed by him so far this season and he was your best player against Spurs.
Because surely he's either not getting the most out of the players which in itself is an issue as he's on his third year now and you don't really have an identity as a team. Its similar to us with Conte last year where you rely more on individual quality going forward instead of a style of play.
Your team shouldn't be caving in and playing like this as you pretty much lost no players yet finished 2nd last year (a fact which everyone was constantly reminded of leading up to this season), if you fell a bit short of the title then yeah fair enough you can point to him not being backed but I don't feel getting convincingly beat by Spurs at home for the first time in 8 years is due to you not getting one CB.
If its not due to his managing and its just because the players are so poor (obviously not the case) then didn't he sign most of these? The glaring holes in your midfield not protecting the back 4, Matic, Fred both Mourinho signings?
Smalling, Jones might be poor and Jose might have been denied another CB by Woodward but they play games due to the fact the 2 he signed Bailly and Lindelof cant be trusted in equal measure.
What I will say which is fair credit to him is Shaw's current form, been really impressed by him so far this season and he was your best player against Spurs.
I'm trying to give traction to that fact but people are focused on less obvious things. Our midfield is absolutely useless and it makes no sense when you look at the players at our disposal. The good periods during the Spurs game was when we by passed it by being very direct.
I find it hard to reconcile how I am feeling at the moment. I don't like Jose, I never did. I never wanted him at the club and have had hardly a good word to say about him since he arrived.
I would have been delighted if he had left in the summer and yet I find myself supporting him now.
The fans that stayed to applaud him at the end are a credit to the club.
There is a bit of sympathy in this, a bit of siege mentality support maybe but whenever all the other fans and media are putting the boot into our manager I find myself reacting against this. His days are numbered I think but whilst he is here I hope the matchday fans continue to support the team and the manager during the games.
I would have been delighted if he had left in the summer and yet I find myself supporting him now.
The fans that stayed to applaud him at the end are a credit to the club.
There is a bit of sympathy in this, a bit of siege mentality support maybe but whenever all the other fans and media are putting the boot into our manager I find myself reacting against this. His days are numbered I think but whilst he is here I hope the matchday fans continue to support the team and the manager during the games.
We don't have a controlling midfielder and our players are static in the middle. We have to be one of the worst teams I have seen at making angles for a pass when we have the ball.
We started better yes, but did you watch the whole game?
We quickly become clueless, made mistakes and left Rashford on the bench in favour of lumping it to Fellaini.
We lost 3-0 at HOME. And you know what, all things considered we were well beaten. Beaten by a better organised, tactically good team. No complaints - the better team won.
Mourinho cannot be defended I'm afraid
Like Fergie did, he needs at least four seasons before things come together.
In 1988/89 United were losing from one week to the next but the board stuck with Fergie because they knew he was in the middle of turning the club around.
Thats where United are now, it's a club still in transition. Just because we had Moyes then Van Gaal and half a billion has been spent it doesn't mean we should be number one again. This is especially true when that kind of expenditure has been matched by other clubs.
If anything there's an argument to say Moyes should have been given four seasons and that not giving him time to implement his vision was a mistake. We could be seeing the rewards of that by now if they had stuck with him.
In 1988/89 United were losing from one week to the next but the board stuck with Fergie because they knew he was in the middle of turning the club around.
Thats where United are now, it's a club still in transition. Just because we had Moyes then Van Gaal and half a billion has been spent it doesn't mean we should be number one again. This is especially true when that kind of expenditure has been matched by other clubs.
If anything there's an argument to say Moyes should have been given four seasons and that not giving him time to implement his vision was a mistake. We could be seeing the rewards of that by now if they had stuck with him.
Oh as if the former style of play was working before he was messed up by the fans encouragement of more attacking football. I forgot it worked against Brighton where United created a grand total of like 2 chances in 90 minutes.
Who gives a shit about reviewing this season when we are 3 games in? It serves no purpose. His well criticised brand was doing just fine and getting broadly expected results last season when he finished 2nd. And yet people complained anyway.
I am not talking about the technical aspect of the game nor how we played.
My comment was for this:
I think most(at least) of the players did play for him and tried their best.
I think people are losing perspective of why we hired Mou. We hired him to right the ship and bring us trophies in the short term.
However, it's clear that despite our investments and whichever way he sets us up to play we are falling short.
So now all our players suddenly suck & he's trying crazy different things hoping something works.
It is foolish to believe that tho since it's never been Mou's specialty. You don't hire a pastry chef to make cook you a steak.
He doesn't know how to develop players or create a system to leverage the strengths of his players. Which is what we sorely need right now since we can't outspend City. Look at what Poch & Klopp have done with less resources.
Challenge is firing him right now is risky without a good replacement unless Zidane is available. Even then a mid season transition is tough. So we won't make changes unless Mou completely loses it over the next few games
However, it's clear that despite our investments and whichever way he sets us up to play we are falling short.
So now all our players suddenly suck & he's trying crazy different things hoping something works.
It is foolish to believe that tho since it's never been Mou's specialty. You don't hire a pastry chef to make cook you a steak.
He doesn't know how to develop players or create a system to leverage the strengths of his players. Which is what we sorely need right now since we can't outspend City. Look at what Poch & Klopp have done with less resources.
Challenge is firing him right now is risky without a good replacement unless Zidane is available. Even then a mid season transition is tough. So we won't make changes unless Mou completely loses it over the next few games
We shouldn't be discussing Mourinho for now but that twat Woodward!
Seems that his masters like the idea of getting rid of managers and at the same time pocketing the dosh!
Seems that his masters like the idea of getting rid of managers and at the same time pocketing the dosh!
Why? It's working. Look at how he's divided the fanbase. He's done a great job helping establish a narrative where everyone from "the board" to the media are conspiring against him and his team. If and when he's let go at or near the end of the season, he'll have a sizable base of fans supporting him regardless of how we're performing as a club.
I personally marvel people who demand 'entertaining football' from a side with a dead right flank, both at right back and right wing defence so weak the midfield and attack must over compensate for it defensively, whilst saddled with the squad imbalance caused by a CEO's bad buys for previous manages like a Mata and a Darmian, or plain not good enough to keep like Jones, Smalling and perhaps Rojo who he refuses to sell or upgrade. Even more baffling is how its 'all the managers fault' .......
Giving us a brand of football that is exciting to watch whilst making the world believe in us as a serious force again. Nothing else
I've never been fond of Mourinho as a person, and he hasn't really changed my opinion since being here. So from that point of view, that obviously doesn't help.
To add to that, the performances under him haven't been great, despite the three trophies he's won since being here.
His whole demeanour and attitude has changed since his second stint at Chelsea. It seems that he's gone from loving to being the victim, to feeling sorry for himself and demanding respect off something he did a while back.
In order for him to get my support, (although I wouldn't say he's lost my full support because he's a United manager) he has to change his attitude.
He has to stop playing the blame game. Yes, he's probably not happy with the summer window and how it panned out, but he needs to get on with it. Be more positive. Stop throwing players, especially the young ones, under the bus when they have a bad game, especially when our senior ones aren't stepping up.
If he does that, along with playing better football on the eye and better results, then I guess I wouldn't mind seeing him here next season, but at the moment, he seems to be sucking the life out of the team and fans.
To add to that, the performances under him haven't been great, despite the three trophies he's won since being here.
His whole demeanour and attitude has changed since his second stint at Chelsea. It seems that he's gone from loving to being the victim, to feeling sorry for himself and demanding respect off something he did a while back.
In order for him to get my support, (although I wouldn't say he's lost my full support because he's a United manager) he has to change his attitude.
He has to stop playing the blame game. Yes, he's probably not happy with the summer window and how it panned out, but he needs to get on with it. Be more positive. Stop throwing players, especially the young ones, under the bus when they have a bad game, especially when our senior ones aren't stepping up.
If he does that, along with playing better football on the eye and better results, then I guess I wouldn't mind seeing him here next season, but at the moment, he seems to be sucking the life out of the team and fans.
I still think he's the person to still do it, he needs to change a bit, and after the 1st half on Monday, I think he's trying, Sunday will see how he goes? Still think some players are not performing for him, he still needs to get the best out of them.. give him this season and a January window with money, see what Woodward bring in he has too.
It was criticized because it was never going to challenge for anything major, and all the stats pointed to the points rate not being sustainable. Again, United created the least amount of chances of the top 6, and had the most saves of the top 6. This shows that United were incredibly reliant on de Gea and we were clinical. Any slip in either of those two things and United would clearly lose more points.
You can't just ignore that. This is why I ask you guys if you really think 2nd place is an accurate assessment of where the team is at. Are United really the 2nd best team in the country? Since you guys like to cite the 2nd place finish as proof of major progress, I would like to know why after spending money on Fred did United start off as bad as we have? Again, Spurs did not spend money and have spent a lot less since Mourinho's hiring.
3 games in is so lazy of a rebuttal. The Brighton game was a continuation of last season's attacking performances. For the 2nd time I would like to point out that United created the least amount of chances out of the top 6 last season. Now you tell me the Brighton game is not a continuation of that. Do it.
Why do you want more defenders brought in? Is it perhaps because you realize our defense isn't all that great despite the goals conceded highlight? Perhaps the stat that I noted (most saves of the top 6) was another sign of where our team was at? Nah, it couldn't be. 2nd place was clear progress and the points table is fool proof.
You don't like those stats pointing to a United that really were the 3rd or 4th best team in the country last season because it destroys the Mourinho progress argument you guys put out constantly.
He's signed 2 CBs and 3 CMs for a total of around 250 million and people still refuse to blame him for the football. Crazy stuff.
Football fans and the media are knee-jerk. If he wins the next 8-10 games in a row, everyone will be creaming over him and his masterclasses.
The only way to shut up everyone is winning. Simple as.
Edit : this applies to every manager in the game.
The only way to shut up everyone is winning. Simple as.
Edit : this applies to every manager in the game.
He would need to be a zebra that actually managed to change his stripes.
Lol plenty of teams in the league manage to play more entertaining football than us with far worse players. So what's your point? We have players good enough to play decent football maybe not against the best but against everyone else absolutely
Hell years ago having Sanchez, Lukaku and Pogba on the same side would have seemed pure fantasy.
Why did you bother to reply if you couldn't even get it? I said you have a dead right flank and a shit defence and not only do you 'expect' to be entertained you expect a manager who believes good defence is paramount to success, yet his defence is largely shit, to 'give it to you'? Where the feck do you expect to get entertained from in that scenario? Or you'd rather he opened up like Klopp, we do noting but attack only down the left flank, and get tonked by half the league as they find out out one trick pony act out? Is that more agreeable to you?
Mourinho is so past it. Chelsea won the title after sacking him. The way Mourinho holds players back is ridiculous. I'm pretty sure as soon as we fire him we will start looking a lot better.
People defending Mourinho are overthinking IMO. You see two of the best players in the PL now, Salah and De Bruyne. Sucked under Mourinho. Who's to say Martial wont make that leap once Mourinho is gone? Let alone Pogba, Sanchez, Rashford, Lukaku etc.
Mourinho is a previous decade manager. And just horrible at how much he holds players back. Seriously people are overthinking, I think this is easy. Our squad is very talented, just let them play.
People defending Mourinho are overthinking IMO. You see two of the best players in the PL now, Salah and De Bruyne. Sucked under Mourinho. Who's to say Martial wont make that leap once Mourinho is gone? Let alone Pogba, Sanchez, Rashford, Lukaku etc.
Mourinho is a previous decade manager. And just horrible at how much he holds players back. Seriously people are overthinking, I think this is easy. Our squad is very talented, just let them play.
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We all saw how much he cares about that defense by the way how he protected them vs Tottenham, great stuff.
If I was him I would use speed up front and width on the pitch. Lukaku only against weaker teams. Oh and pray that someone finally realises that the biggest problem is Woodward.
He's really playing the victim and in my honest opinion he's brought down standards. Sure he's better than Moyes and LVG and sure he has some constraints but the excuses are weak. I believe his constant chat about centre backs has killed the confidence of our current centre halves and now the opposition see them as weak, the fans believe they're not good enough and so on. Yet last season we finished second. I'll remind people that Fergy believed in Phil Jones and Chris Smalling. And that Mourinho bought Bailly.
To answer the original questions posed in this thread, I would say Mourinho would have to get the best out of the squad and the team. Create a strong sense of purpose, team spirit and manage the team by getting the best out of them. And stop being a baby infront of the media. However my expectations are really low. Throwing tantrums and players under the bus isn't the way to get the best out of them. So in summary he has the support, but inside I'm sceptical that his methods will yield the right results. And going by his chat the pressure is clearly getting to him. Let's see what he's made of.
