I mean, I hope you're right.
Top 4 finish two seasons in a row
- Thread starter horsechoker
- Start date
If bad breath had a face it would be klopp
Has to be considered in the context of a compressed season though. On the flip side we've been fairly lucky with injuries - none of our key players bar Pogba got injured this season - so this is basically as good as it gets PPG wise with this squad. Next season is Ole's first big test as they say
never implied that. Just that I haven't really been hyped about CL for roughly 8 years. The PSG result was a great thrill though but generally I feel we are an also ran which isn't exciting.
Last season we got 66 points - hardly a convincing top 4 finish. Actually it was the only season since SAF's retirement, where 66 points was enough to guarantee a CL spot. I would be much happier if we could put together consistent +80 point seasons.
Of course not and I think we've done well this season but I won't be celebrating a second place finish, I'll acknowledge and appreciate our progress and the fact that we're on the right path but celebrate it? No thanks.
If we win Europa and finish second then it's been the best season since SAF retired and as such I will celebrate this.
Either way, I'm excited for the next season!
I was pleased to see us seal Champions League qualification early, it feels good to get the second place that’s an improvement on last year and unexpected at the beginning of the season. Beating Roma 6-2 to secure a European final was worthy a slight celebration (one beer), but a trophy will see me open up a bottle of wine.
I grewup in the 80s and luckily have not built my life around laughing at very decent teams getting number four or telling myself that ‘i must be a lean hungry machine, never be satisfied’ as if I was a professional athlete and not a fan. Heck, I celebrate goals even. As do the professional athletes, come to think of it.
Who are these people, in fact, who ‘don’t celebrate fourth places’? Why don’t they? What is their life about, and why do they follow a team?
I grewup in the 80s and luckily have not built my life around laughing at very decent teams getting number four or telling myself that ‘i must be a lean hungry machine, never be satisfied’ as if I was a professional athlete and not a fan. Heck, I celebrate goals even. As do the professional athletes, come to think of it.
Who are these people, in fact, who ‘don’t celebrate fourth places’? Why don’t they? What is their life about, and why do they follow a team?
Yes, I celebrated. With a coke zero! This one does not deserve extra calorie intakes.
Dont know about "celebrating" as much is it acknowledging, and being content, with us seemingly heading in the right direction.
With the exception of Cavani, all of our key players have yet to enter or have just entered their prime years
Next season we can line up
-----------------------Henderson(25)----------------------------
AWB(24)---Maguire(29)--Lindelof(27)--Shaw(26)
---------------------Fred(29)----CM-----------------------------
-----------------------------Bruno(27)----------------------------
Sancho(22)-----Greenwood(20)-----Rashford(24)
*Age next season
Not a single player on the wrong side of 30. Add Sancho and a technically and tactically competent CM alongside Fred and this is a side with plenty of potential and plenty of room to grow
With the exception of Cavani, all of our key players have yet to enter or have just entered their prime years
Next season we can line up
-----------------------Henderson(25)----------------------------
AWB(24)---Maguire(29)--Lindelof(27)--Shaw(26)
---------------------Fred(29)----CM-----------------------------
-----------------------------Bruno(27)----------------------------
Sancho(22)-----Greenwood(20)-----Rashford(24)
*Age next season
Not a single player on the wrong side of 30. Add Sancho and a technically and tactically competent CM alongside Fred and this is a side with plenty of potential and plenty of room to grow
This is what "a return to the SAF era" looks like in terms of points (bolded = PL title):
12/13: 89
11/12: 89
10/11: 80
09/10: 85
08/09: 90
07/08: 87
06/07: 89
05/06: 83
04/05: 77
03/04: 75
02/03: 83
01/02: 77
00/01: 80
We're not quite there yet. And 71 (or 74) points is less than I think there was good reason to hope for this year.
But we may not be very far off. How far? The results are what they are, but if we're trying to assess what the results say about how far the team has developed, I think you have to consider the fact that there has been an unusual number of games impacted by special circumstances that won't normally be there. There's the first three games, where they plainly played at a much lower level than usual due to the virtual lack of a pre-season. There's the schedule pile-up due to the delayed game against Liverpool, due to which the Leicester game was more or less conceded in advance, and the Liverpool game clearly impacted. Also, with nothing to play for and the EL final right around the corner, I'd expect many players rested and points lost against Wolves on Sunday too. That's up to 15 points, which is an awful lot. With a haul of 7 or 8 points from those games, we would be at least in the lower end of the SAF-years range. And before anyone start, not making excuses, the results are what they are, but trying to figure out where the team is is not simply the same thing as noting the results. Not sure how to factor these in, but they do matter (and are unlikely to be repeated).
Note however that actually winning the PL these days in most cases will require us to exceed the SAF era. These are the points totals for the PL winners since SAF retired:
20/21: 83, 84 or 86 points (depending on City's last game)
19/20: 99
18/19: 98
17/18: 100
16/17: 93
15/16: 81
14/15: 87
13/13: 86
In four of the past five seasons, the PL has been won with more points than we have ever achieved during this millennium. Which kind of puts the challenge we're facing in perspective. And should be borne in mind vis-a-vis expecting a title this coming season.
12/13: 89
11/12: 89
10/11: 80
09/10: 85
08/09: 90
07/08: 87
06/07: 89
05/06: 83
04/05: 77
03/04: 75
02/03: 83
01/02: 77
00/01: 80
We're not quite there yet. And 71 (or 74) points is less than I think there was good reason to hope for this year.
But we may not be very far off. How far? The results are what they are, but if we're trying to assess what the results say about how far the team has developed, I think you have to consider the fact that there has been an unusual number of games impacted by special circumstances that won't normally be there. There's the first three games, where they plainly played at a much lower level than usual due to the virtual lack of a pre-season. There's the schedule pile-up due to the delayed game against Liverpool, due to which the Leicester game was more or less conceded in advance, and the Liverpool game clearly impacted. Also, with nothing to play for and the EL final right around the corner, I'd expect many players rested and points lost against Wolves on Sunday too. That's up to 15 points, which is an awful lot. With a haul of 7 or 8 points from those games, we would be at least in the lower end of the SAF-years range. And before anyone start, not making excuses, the results are what they are, but trying to figure out where the team is is not simply the same thing as noting the results. Not sure how to factor these in, but they do matter (and are unlikely to be repeated).
Note however that actually winning the PL these days in most cases will require us to exceed the SAF era. These are the points totals for the PL winners since SAF retired:
20/21: 83, 84 or 86 points (depending on City's last game)
19/20: 99
18/19: 98
17/18: 100
16/17: 93
15/16: 81
14/15: 87
13/13: 86
In four of the past five seasons, the PL has been won with more points than we have ever achieved during this millennium. Which kind of puts the challenge we're facing in perspective. And should be borne in mind vis-a-vis expecting a title this coming season.
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We won't return to the SAF era of challenging for titles and coming close to his points total until we figure out a way to improve our Home form. We are shiite at home over the past 4 seasons dropping points to team that we should be battering and winning quite comfortably.
We have to figure out how to break down teams, we have to take our chances when we get them and we have to be more attack minded at home. The Home matches is where missing a Ruud, Ole, Rooney, Ronaldo, Yorke, Cole really shows. That clinical guy in the box that can put the ball in the back of the net. In particular, Marcus and Martial just aren't clinical enough when we need them to finish off chances where they are sitting with 10 men behind the ball.
We have to figure out how to break down teams, we have to take our chances when we get them and we have to be more attack minded at home. The Home matches is where missing a Ruud, Ole, Rooney, Ronaldo, Yorke, Cole really shows. That clinical guy in the box that can put the ball in the back of the net. In particular, Marcus and Martial just aren't clinical enough when we need them to finish off chances where they are sitting with 10 men behind the ball.
I really want to take the piss and call you Arsenal but there's clear progress and nobody is "celebrating".
You lot are boring, with your reasonable expectations and reactions. What's happened to this place?
You lot are boring, with your reasonable expectations and reactions. What's happened to this place?
Four seasons? We've been shite at home since Fergie retired. Teams that used to show up and go through the motions now come to OT and have a go at us.
i only mentioned the past 4 seasons because statistically they have been the worst points total at home since Fergie retired. You are right though, we've been shite at home since Fergie left in general with i believe the most wins in one season at home since he retired at 10 wins. That just isn't good enough and it's the biggest reason why we have struggled to compete in the league. We can talk about squad, lack of funding, protests, whatever as a reason for our poor finishes but it's our home form that has suffered and been the biggest issue.
feck me, looking at this thread title I thought I'd accidentally logged into the Arsenal fan forum.
I agree. It wasnt that long ago (but is getting longer and longer) when we used to laugh at Arsenal fans for celebrating this 'award'
Eventually they will get rid of Arteta and get someone better just like Chelsea did with Lampard.
Not much to celebrate but it's important
Will be good for recruitment if players start to view us as a regular UCL club again
Will be good for recruitment if players start to view us as a regular UCL club again
Nothing to be overly happy about. Its the minimum that is required of us.
Challenging and silverware is where its at.
Challenging and silverware is where its at.
Watch them get Allegri and become another team to challenge for a top 4 spot.
This is a joke, right? With some posters i don't know anymore are they joking, fishing or are they serious
I don't celebrate consistent mediocrity (at best) and lack of ambition. This is the stuff Arsenal are made of.
A trophy and challenging on all fronts every season is what we should be aspiring for. However considering what it’s been like since fergie, consistency in the league is a start.
Was it Arsenal who first touted the "top 4 trophy"?
There is nothing special for finishing top 4. Arsenal did it because it meant that they'd get the CL money, the following season.
Given the size of our club and the amount of money it earns, we should be finishing top 2 every season. Unfortunately, we are not.
Ole does need to start winning trophies. Hopefully, EL in a few days will be the first.
There is nothing special for finishing top 4. Arsenal did it because it meant that they'd get the CL money, the following season.
Given the size of our club and the amount of money it earns, we should be finishing top 2 every season. Unfortunately, we are not.
Ole does need to start winning trophies. Hopefully, EL in a few days will be the first.
Yes top 4 trophy again 2nd season in a row and also won the unbeaten away all season trophy too............could do the treble this Wednesday too
Obviously I'm being sarcastic but this is the most consistent we have been in the league since the great man retired.
People can say people are celebrating mediocrity, but they aren't. They are just acknowledging we've made a lot of progress with Ole in the league. We were mediocre pretty much the last 8 years, so nice to actually be consistent for once, easier to build for following season when you got a solid plan
Obviously I'm being sarcastic but this is the most consistent we have been in the league since the great man retired.
People can say people are celebrating mediocrity, but they aren't. They are just acknowledging we've made a lot of progress with Ole in the league. We were mediocre pretty much the last 8 years, so nice to actually be consistent for once, easier to build for following season when you got a solid plan
The way Liverpool fans have celebrated top 4 today, and they're the best PL team ever, we should definitely be doing more. Can we have a lap around the Gdansk stadium before the final Wednesday? Or maybe hang a banner from the rafters? Nothing too over the top.
Ole and the players should be quite proud of their away record this season as it matches the season away unbeaten run that Arsenal has back in 2003/2004. Our home form has been our biggest hinderance over the past 2-3 years from being a really title contender.
They were looking unlikely to be the CL up until a few weeks ago.
I’m happy for 2 consecutive years in the CL but it’s nothing to get comfortable with... who are the most likely teams to push City next year? Most likely Liverpool and Chelsea.
Also I know Ole won’t be happy with 2nd, as he himself called 2nd below expectations when United finished 2nd under Mourinho. So looking forward to Ole doing all he can to ensure a genuine title challenge next year.
Also I know Ole won’t be happy with 2nd, as he himself called 2nd below expectations when United finished 2nd under Mourinho. So looking forward to Ole doing all he can to ensure a genuine title challenge next year.
So? So we're we last season and we didn't go overboard like them lot are. It's the absolute minimum and not something to celebrate for a team that claims to be the biggest in the land, and that's talking about both of us.
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