That's it. His every mistake is blown out of proportion. His every good move is not his anyway, it's all to the players.
Total lack of respect for an absolute club legend (another Ole thread)
- Thread starter Leethal
- Start date
Totally agree with op.
Embarrassing and not really fans and definitely not supporters. Internet genius is all.
You don’t hear it at the ground.
Embarrassing and not really fans and definitely not supporters. Internet genius is all.
You don’t hear it at the ground.
Ole is in a lose lose situation with a lot of fans. Play the strongest XI: “no shit I also can pick that “. Rotate XI:”ole scrub manager why dont he pick the strongest lineup”. He is certainly not immune to criticism but hearing some of the shite spewed by members here you imagine we are managed by Big Sam. He inherited bums (yes these are bums) like lingard, perreira, alexis, lukaku and in his first full season he managed to displace all of them from starting lineup. You lot underestimate Jose’s destruction of this club in his last few months here. Watching games felt like going to funeral back then and Ole has certainly done a better job than this “world class”idiot.
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Yeah, I get that. I just feel like a lot of our fans don't look at it that way, they just seem to expect us to do this £200m+ recruitment in one Summer and go into every season thinking now it's time. It's as bad as Arsenal fans thinking that. If we get anywhere near after the damage done over the years I'll be surprised to say the least, especially when City & Liverpool are at a level that even our best sides would have found hard to match.
What i'll never understand, is how some fans can be unhappy with an immediate upwards trajectory, an immediate improvement of results, morale, team togetherness, attacking style of play, some 20 less goals conceded. They aren't happy because "it's been 7 years".
Yeah, like thats the current managers fault.
If these fans had their way, they'd sack managers every month.
Keep it going Ole, you're taking us back in the right direction. I firmly believe we're another 2 seasons away, personally. So I wont get too disheartened when we ultimately don't end up in a title race next season. I want us to have a pop at a title race, but cement 3rd place next season, have a better squad of players, and compete for the cups. The long term project is obvious, we're improving every year. I'm excited to see how Ole improves this squad, he's been ruthless with unwanted players so far, we could literally free up £1,000,000 per week on wages without even trying this summer.
Yeah, like thats the current managers fault.
If these fans had their way, they'd sack managers every month.
Keep it going Ole, you're taking us back in the right direction. I firmly believe we're another 2 seasons away, personally. So I wont get too disheartened when we ultimately don't end up in a title race next season. I want us to have a pop at a title race, but cement 3rd place next season, have a better squad of players, and compete for the cups. The long term project is obvious, we're improving every year. I'm excited to see how Ole improves this squad, he's been ruthless with unwanted players so far, we could literally free up £1,000,000 per week on wages without even trying this summer.
Opening a thread to complain about people who complain about the manager is a bit counterproductive, don't you think?
Also, I'd argue that the situation was much worse before January and that the arguments are more level headed now.
It's a natural and sensible argument to discuss whether Ole seems a good fit for the longer term.
Sentimentality has no place in football, and so rightly, every manager we have will have their pros and cons. While people mention Klopp, Liverpool fans wanted him sacked after that first season. Pep was called overrated after his first season. So, I don't believe that's a logical argument.
Ole hasn't really done anything of note as manager of Manchester United that makes him immune to criticism.
People have a right to their opinions if it's not hurting anyone.
I don't see what you're hoping to achieve with this other than validating your own opinions and beliefs.
Also, I'd argue that the situation was much worse before January and that the arguments are more level headed now.
It's a natural and sensible argument to discuss whether Ole seems a good fit for the longer term.
Sentimentality has no place in football, and so rightly, every manager we have will have their pros and cons. While people mention Klopp, Liverpool fans wanted him sacked after that first season. Pep was called overrated after his first season. So, I don't believe that's a logical argument.
Ole hasn't really done anything of note as manager of Manchester United that makes him immune to criticism.
People have a right to their opinions if it's not hurting anyone.
I don't see what you're hoping to achieve with this other than validating your own opinions and beliefs.
I don't think that it's a fair representation. A part of the fanbase is just irate by the fact that we have spent a fortune since 2013 and we always have glaring coaching and squad issues and that's fair, today we aren't nearer to a title challenge than we were under Moyes. Now there is a very small minority that is annoying with their favorite managers and keep having a pop at Ole while boring us to death with their Pochettino or I don't know who else.
I choose to believe that most of these ultra reactionary fans are posters born in the late 90s, early 2000s and don't have a relationship with the man and doesn't know any better as they're still maturing.
Dont prove me wrong Caf.
I think they did exactly the same thing last season and didn’t recover. We then got told it wouldn’t happen again because he would get the players fitter. They don’t look fitter. I wasn’t mention the Chelsea game against us I was mentioning the game against Liverpool. They still had loads of energy and didn’t look tired. They had the same amount of rest as us.
Also in a title run in you’ll have these sort of fixtures at the end of the season. When we lost to City on the last day of the season, we lost our bottle in a couple of games but we didn’t lose our fitness.
. Maybe go correct your ignorant post.When was you born.
It is getting frustrating. Fans who thought Ole isnt the man actually want to see him fail so they can say, I told you so 12 months ago. I know football, I am great.
So instead of supporting the team, they are hoping for our manager to fail. If he fails he fails, while he has the job, I want us to win things, under Ole or anyone else.
I see the usual suspects showed up in this thread as well. You know who you are.
Criticism, even unfair criticism, is fine. Frankly, it's to be expected and even supported in a way. It's what this forum is for. People should always discuss the positives and negatives, even when some people can't really grasp "objective" positive or negative things.
The problem is that certain people (not as many as a couple of weeks ago) constantly and obviously make stuff up (it happens _a lot_).
They twist the words of everyone they're "discussing" with, over emphasize on mistakes (small or big, by Ole or the other poster), and create scenarios that are both untrue and unrealistic.
Ifs and buts. Whataboutism. Ridiculing. Relativization. Other clubs. Proven managers. Unproven managers. Everyone who's not Ole is better, and Ole is worse than anyone but Moyes.
They can see no positives, even totally objective positives. They even manage to turn objective positives into ammo for criticism. "We are 13 games unbeaten in the league, surely that's positive?" "No, because the players are tired with one game left of the season". You can add name calling, personal attacks, and other vile stuff to the list, but that's not as common as a couple of weeks ago.
This used to be an issue with both sides of the debate. Now, in my opinion, it's mainly Ole Outers who's responsible for most of this.
And that's disrespectful. Very disrespectful, even. Not only to OIe, but to the club, the fans, and the other poster(s).
It's not about criticism, fair or unfair. It's about how you do it.
Criticism, even unfair criticism, is fine. Frankly, it's to be expected and even supported in a way. It's what this forum is for. People should always discuss the positives and negatives, even when some people can't really grasp "objective" positive or negative things.
The problem is that certain people (not as many as a couple of weeks ago) constantly and obviously make stuff up (it happens _a lot_).
They twist the words of everyone they're "discussing" with, over emphasize on mistakes (small or big, by Ole or the other poster), and create scenarios that are both untrue and unrealistic.
Ifs and buts. Whataboutism. Ridiculing. Relativization. Other clubs. Proven managers. Unproven managers. Everyone who's not Ole is better, and Ole is worse than anyone but Moyes.
They can see no positives, even totally objective positives. They even manage to turn objective positives into ammo for criticism. "We are 13 games unbeaten in the league, surely that's positive?" "No, because the players are tired with one game left of the season". You can add name calling, personal attacks, and other vile stuff to the list, but that's not as common as a couple of weeks ago.
This used to be an issue with both sides of the debate. Now, in my opinion, it's mainly Ole Outers who's responsible for most of this.
And that's disrespectful. Very disrespectful, even. Not only to OIe, but to the club, the fans, and the other poster(s).
It's not about criticism, fair or unfair. It's about how you do it.
I am, of course, exaggerating for effect. Apologies if any offence was taken. (Still on Ole in person)
Dont forget the constant goalpost shifting.
Fair do’s if true. You actually got me.
Agree with you OP. If this lot can’t get behind Ole then I have no belief I will ever see a united forum behind a manager.
I mean how often does a club legend return to a club the sheer size of United, at the depths we were and manage to turn it around? Never?
In my opinion he’s close to having this club challenging again, perhaps not next season but we will be right amongst the pack.
Do people realise just what a feckin juggernaut of a club this is, what a massive undertaking it is to change its whole dynamic and direction at any given time, let alone when its languishing in obscurity for 6 years!? Not to mention the sheer amount of scrutiny, there is perhaps no more scrutinised job in world football and no club is more of a poison chalice after SAF, with the level he set and getting back to that is the minimum expectation.
Ole wants this club back at the top as much as anybody in this forum and then some. He’s a fan first and foremost, one that is part of our history in his own rite, he will always put the club first, no Mourinho ego or the like.
Its a shame that many fans need a trophy thrown in their laps to temper their short term patience and lack the foresight to see the many improvements and the actual direction the club is heading compared to before.
I remember a certain Klopp falling in his first few years at Liverpool, we laughed in here but deep down I’m sure many could see the improvement and were concerned, they were starting to click in Klopps first seasons and the improvement was there. I’m not comparing Ole to Klopp but that feeling of a team taking shape is there with Ole... if you allow yourself to see it.
I mean how often does a club legend return to a club the sheer size of United, at the depths we were and manage to turn it around? Never?
In my opinion he’s close to having this club challenging again, perhaps not next season but we will be right amongst the pack.
Do people realise just what a feckin juggernaut of a club this is, what a massive undertaking it is to change its whole dynamic and direction at any given time, let alone when its languishing in obscurity for 6 years!? Not to mention the sheer amount of scrutiny, there is perhaps no more scrutinised job in world football and no club is more of a poison chalice after SAF, with the level he set and getting back to that is the minimum expectation.
Ole wants this club back at the top as much as anybody in this forum and then some. He’s a fan first and foremost, one that is part of our history in his own rite, he will always put the club first, no Mourinho ego or the like.
Its a shame that many fans need a trophy thrown in their laps to temper their short term patience and lack the foresight to see the many improvements and the actual direction the club is heading compared to before.
I remember a certain Klopp falling in his first few years at Liverpool, we laughed in here but deep down I’m sure many could see the improvement and were concerned, they were starting to click in Klopps first seasons and the improvement was there. I’m not comparing Ole to Klopp but that feeling of a team taking shape is there with Ole... if you allow yourself to see it.
I'm just glad the narrative has changed to whether he should be in charge or not instead of throwing out names left, right and center on his replacement which was the case for a while. It's progress.
Yeah I agree with this. It's amazing how unfit we look compared to COVID-18...
I think the job was to big for Ole in the first place. As a manager he's not really done anything to earn a seat as Uniteds top man.
That being said, if he gets top 4, then he deserves a chance next season to prove he has a right to be there.
As for lack of respect, I sort of disagree. I think criticism is needed. He hasn't been good enough and throughout his managerial career at he's not proved anything either.
As for progress, this season, we've not made any in my opinion.
We've spent a lot of money, and at best, can finish on the same points total as last year. (At worst, if we lose, less points than Moyes season)
We're lucky that teams around us have struggled also.
The only real progression we've made this season is that teams around us have fecked up more than we have.
And although it's an 'if'. Imagine if we didn't sign Bruno when we did, where would we be in the league right now?
Would everybody still be backing Ole at that point when things couldn't get much worse?
That being said, if he gets top 4, then he deserves a chance next season to prove he has a right to be there.
As for lack of respect, I sort of disagree. I think criticism is needed. He hasn't been good enough and throughout his managerial career at he's not proved anything either.
As for progress, this season, we've not made any in my opinion.
We've spent a lot of money, and at best, can finish on the same points total as last year. (At worst, if we lose, less points than Moyes season)
We're lucky that teams around us have struggled also.
The only real progression we've made this season is that teams around us have fecked up more than we have.
And although it's an 'if'. Imagine if we didn't sign Bruno when we did, where would we be in the league right now?
Would everybody still be backing Ole at that point when things couldn't get much worse?
It's a "What have you done for me lately?" kinda business.
Is that yet another excuse?
I will admit early in the season I was calling for his head. He took a huge gamble to not buy a forward other than Dan James. It did backfire until Bruno was purchased in January. But him allowing the front 3 a season has now worked.
I think he has earnt the right to another season. We are playing nice football to watch which is certainly something we haven’t done since Sir Alex. We have high scoring wins, Martial scored a hat trick, a young squad with many players from our youth system. This is how I and many United fans want to see United. Of course you want to win trophies but this is how our success as a club has been bred over our history.
Provided we get the right players in and sort out this fitness issue we could do alright next season. And for the first time in a long time I am looking at the squad improving rather than thinking we need X, Y and Z to improve the squad (though I would love Sancho and a CB).
Regarding fitness I think a decision has to be made on focusing on certain trophies just like we did under Fergie. I feel this season getting top 4 was priority after the restart but we still played full strength in the quarter final against Norwich. A strong squad also played against Chelsea in the semis. That has caused issues later down the line. I don’t blame Ole though, he will want his first trophy as United manager.
I think he has earnt the right to another season. We are playing nice football to watch which is certainly something we haven’t done since Sir Alex. We have high scoring wins, Martial scored a hat trick, a young squad with many players from our youth system. This is how I and many United fans want to see United. Of course you want to win trophies but this is how our success as a club has been bred over our history.
Provided we get the right players in and sort out this fitness issue we could do alright next season. And for the first time in a long time I am looking at the squad improving rather than thinking we need X, Y and Z to improve the squad (though I would love Sancho and a CB).
Regarding fitness I think a decision has to be made on focusing on certain trophies just like we did under Fergie. I feel this season getting top 4 was priority after the restart but we still played full strength in the quarter final against Norwich. A strong squad also played against Chelsea in the semis. That has caused issues later down the line. I don’t blame Ole though, he will want his first trophy as United manager.
Imagine if we didnt sign any players. Had to resign Scholes and Ronny Johnson. Will you still back him then?
Good post
If you just look at the points in isolation then yes we havent made progress. Thing is just checking points total is pointless.
Bruno part, well Ole signed him, he needed him and Bruno helped us massively.
Imagine if we didn't have all those injuries, you see how it goes?
1) i'd rather argue that football is nothing without sentimentality.
Club legends, past achievements, bend it like Beckham, King Eric, Sir Alex, and then thousand more examples. Football without sentimentality is entirely pointless. Old Trafford is full of sentimentality of players past, and even managers present. You WANT your own to do well. And so you back the products of the club significantly more than you would an outsider like say, Moyes.
There's been so many posts on here recently highligting whey the gloomcrowd needs to chill a bit. It's a bit weird that none of them appear to be reading.
2) Can we say that about everyone who are negative as well? This is a pretty circular argument that goes nowhere
I'm struggling to see your point?
Would I back a manager resigning retired players while making a title challenge? yes
2011
So we sign Sancho and a defender in the summer, maybe throw a midfielder in there and finish on 65 points but finish 3rd again, you'd be happy?
Good post. Without sentimentality, there would be no such thing as fans in football at all. What do you even identify with without sentimentality? The crest? The colors? Even if you're local, without sentimentality, you'd swap between City, United, or possibly even Salford or Wigan, depending on who plays the better football at any given time.
No. How did you come to that conclusion?
You said you'd back resinging retired players, you'd treat that as a progress?
There should be a fair middle ground. You should be able to criticize the manager without resorting to insults - that might be something for the forum to moderate (at their choosing). But for the most part, I am not sure there's anything other than a minority doing such things. Also, you could criticize the manager without wanting him sacked etc. - nothing wrong with that, IMO.
But I think there's too many at either side of the spectrum: those who criticize him too much and won't acknowledge any progress and those who hail him as some sort of messiah, who tend to make up excuses for some very valid concerns. Also, fans/supporters have always been like this. Remember sack fergie, sell goggs! Hell, if a thread like this exists for Ole, we could warrant one for legeds like Neville, Scholes, Giggs, Keane - to name a few, where criticism has gone way overboard as well.
But I think there's too many at either side of the spectrum: those who criticize him too much and won't acknowledge any progress and those who hail him as some sort of messiah, who tend to make up excuses for some very valid concerns. Also, fans/supporters have always been like this. Remember sack fergie, sell goggs! Hell, if a thread like this exists for Ole, we could warrant one for legeds like Neville, Scholes, Giggs, Keane - to name a few, where criticism has gone way overboard as well.
These are the same lot who back in 1987/89 would have been calling for Fergie's head. They support United for its ability to deliver silverware and then they enjoy the stardust off it --- and then feel like ''winners'' just because the club they support is winning.
Can you imagine them being Burnley fans? They would never be simply because they don't deliver the silverware.
Then there are others who seem to think that its an easy job -- Poch could do it better! How the feck would we know that? He didn't get sacked becoz he was flying high, winning silverware ever season at Soton or Spuds. He got sacked because Spuds were faltering. Does that guarantee that he would be a success at United? Its just the next shiny thing/object.
Its a fecking process. Ole is hamstrung by a few things -- lots of deadwood, huge wage bill which limits transfers and seven years/three managers' squad.
And any if you guys think that's something that can be fixed in a season or two -- then I have some land to sell you in Florida.
Hysterical fools. Every time we have a run of a couple of bad matches, all these worms start to crawl out of the woodwork.
Can you imagine them being Burnley fans? They would never be simply because they don't deliver the silverware.
Then there are others who seem to think that its an easy job -- Poch could do it better! How the feck would we know that? He didn't get sacked becoz he was flying high, winning silverware ever season at Soton or Spuds. He got sacked because Spuds were faltering. Does that guarantee that he would be a success at United? Its just the next shiny thing/object.
Its a fecking process. Ole is hamstrung by a few things -- lots of deadwood, huge wage bill which limits transfers and seven years/three managers' squad.
And any if you guys think that's something that can be fixed in a season or two -- then I have some land to sell you in Florida.
Hysterical fools. Every time we have a run of a couple of bad matches, all these worms start to crawl out of the woodwork.
If in the same year he was winning the league, then yes
And to the first point, we spend £200m this season on new players and have managed the same points total as last year.
If we signed 3 players for near the same amount and finished on the same points total again, then thats the conclusion.
Then we think differently when we hear the word progress it seems.If in the same year he was winning the league, then yes
And to the first point, we spend £200m this season on new players and have managed the same points total as last year.
If we signed 3 players for near the same amount and finished on the same points total again, then thats the conclusion.
It's internet culture unfortunately.
I've never heard a bad word said about Ole in Manchester. People here love Ole and can see he's made improvements and needs time.
I've never heard a bad word said about Ole in Manchester. People here love Ole and can see he's made improvements and needs time.
As I said originally, if he gets top 4 on sunday, then he buys himself some time, and deserves that, but I just haven't seen progression this season.Then we think differently when we hear the word progress it seems.
With more additions, we need to make strides in the league next year, no excuses. Club legend or not
it's not an internet culture either, you rarely see a bad word being said about Ole on this forum too. You have a few posters who do it often but they don't represent the fanbase or the internet.