Agree completely and this underlines exactly why a case by case approach is needed, rather than a blanket acceptance that a self-declared trans woman should automatically be sent to a woman's prison.
Transgender rights discussion
- Thread starter crappycraperson
- Start date
Because those are real issues that affect most people. That's the whole point of gov't to keep us safe, it's not to cater to the whims of fringe minority groups.
The offence is as follows:
(1)A person (A) commits an offence if—
(a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,
(b)B does not consent to the penetration, and
(c)A does not reasonably believe that B consents.
(2)Whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents.
(3)Sections 75 and 76 apply to an offence under this section.
(4)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable, on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for life.
So the person committing the offence must have a penis. It is always reported as only a man can commit rape but that ignores trans and intersex people.
In Australia anyone can commit rape as the offence is different and not dependent on a penis.
People with a penis can. It's not classed as rape if it's an object so a dildo or strap on or using anything other than a penis would be sexual assault.
Thanks for that. Sounds like the laws need a bit of reform there.
A Trans woman who still has a penis can.
He’s going to a men’s prison.
"Miz Landry is beautiful, with sly eyes like demon"Nothing to with transphobia but holy shit. “Slavic eyes” is something a German from the early 1940’s would say.
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The SNP, able the judge anything, ever? You're having a laugh. Our glorious bunch of nationalist, racist feckwits will just shout whatever appears most liberal because it winds up the Tories.
Of course it is.
I'm assuming you disagree with her point then.
What do you think her point is?
I followed the thread and saw this as the second tweet:
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Which is strange - why should this pedo transwoman be kept in a woman’s prison when the aforementioned rapist be moved to a men’s prison? It seems quite inconsistent from Sturgeon.
Sturgeon was only ever interested in the trans debate as a vehicle to trap Westminster into blocking their bill. It's just political capital for the indy debate, that's all she really cares about.
She will blow in whichever direction public opinion tells her to, so if the public kicks up a stink about the pedo then they'll get moved out as well.
I’m guessing a) it isn’t Sturgeon who makes the decision and b) a paedophile isn’t considered the same threat to adult women as a serial rapist.
Trans bad
Does twat face ever talk about anything else? Or is it just a Trans hating twitter account?
She thinks her transphobia is standing up for women’s right, and so has made it her number one cause. And since people push back, she just digs in deeper.
This is it, in her world, and many a TERF, being a trans woman is just men playing dress up so they can perv and assault ciswomen
Bigotry and shortermism seem to go together very well. Sure the Daily Mail, The Pedograph, GB news and other alt right outlets are buoying you today but their social views age like uncovered gammon. Her malice has so blinded her that she can't see how badly she's Norman Rockwelled herself.
It's like betting everything on history eventually vindicating Hazel Massery. It wont. Because apart from the moral backwardsness of the views, the level of visible spite makes you look too fecking demented to ever be rehabilitated. She could have just been an awful person and stayed quiet and none of this would have happened.
It's like betting everything on history eventually vindicating Hazel Massery. It wont. Because apart from the moral backwardsness of the views, the level of visible spite makes you look too fecking demented to ever be rehabilitated. She could have just been an awful person and stayed quiet and none of this would have happened.
What the absolute feck?!
Holding dangerous prisoners separately from the wider prison population is something that already happens regularly.
EDIT: I wonder what JKR feels about Dennis Nilsen being locked up in men's prisons?
EDIT: I wonder what JKR feels about Dennis Nilsen being locked up in men's prisons?
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I'm sure in many women's prisons there are big strong women who are in for rape. How do prisons deal with them? Why not deal with this trans woman the same way?
Good question.
What really gets me annoyed about this is not the case itself.
If someone is a dangerous prisoner, then there should be measures in place to ensure the safety of other prisoners. Sexual offences are endemic in UK prisons, and the UK state is failing in its duty to prevent them. Also, I have read reports of trans prisoners being victims of sexual violence in prisons (some have the number as high as 50%), so clearly prisons are dangerous and unsafe environments. Even one case is too many - that should be the standard we try to follow.
What gets me annoyed is the implication that somehow this case shows that the danger is the trans community. Somehow these appalling crimes and perpetrators mean that trans rights should be opposed.
If I came on here and listed all the cases of individuals who falsely reported rapes and sexual assaults, and then stated that this shows survivors should not be believed when they come forward, I would rightly be mocked.
I honestly cannot see the difference.
Probably being pedantic but it’s not technically possible for a cis woman to be in prison for rape. A better analogy would be that you don’t hear much outrage about men who rape men being put into a prison with other men.
Yes, that is true and I missed that point too.
There is plenty of abuse in prisons which should be countered: https://howardleague.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Coercive-sex-in-prison.pdf
This is a few years old but basically says we do not know the full extent of abuse in prisons, and even by staff.
Some key points:
• There has been minimal research on sexual abuse in prison and the nature and extent of the problem is not known
• Sexual violence in prison is hidden and under-reported
• Research by Banbury (2004) found that 1 per cent of prisoners had been raped and 5.3 per cent were victims of coerced sex
• Annual data from the Bureau of Justice Statistics show that 2 per cent of prisoners in the US had been the victim of a non-consensual sex act and 4 per cent had been sexually victimised
• HMIP data show that 1 per cent of prisoners reported being sexually abused in prison. Extrapolating from prison population and reception figures, this means that between 850 to 1650 prisoners could be victims of sexual assault while inside
• Ministry of Justice data show that the number of recorded sexual assaults in prison rose in 2013 and is now at the highest recorded level since 2005
• Gay and transgender prisoners are at higher risk of sexual assault than heterosexual prisoners
• Investigations into sexual assaults can be slow and the police are not routinely notified about allegations of abuse
• Prisons are closed institutions. It is complacent to assume that sexual exploitation and abuse by staff never happens in prison
That Nicola sturgeon will do anything she can to try and pretend there’s no problems with letting people self identify as a woman…when the evidence suggests the complete opposite.
That's a very good point and this case shouldn't be used to crimp trans rights.
It does show that there will be outliers now and then though, so flexibility is needed, eg around trans women who as men had a history of sexual violence against women. I've no idea how you'd police that day to day fairly though, ie the access Bryson had to women's changing areas etc...It seemingly only becomes manageable now she's being imprisoned.
You can understand the anger about women just having to accept that risk, no matter how tiny it is, given the acts that someone like Bryson is capable of.
The broad mechanics of the prison assignment system are already defined in terms of risks to the individual prisoner and risks to other prisoners. This article covers the basics:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63823420
The law change in Scotland doesn't affect that directly. In practice what that currently adds up to looks like:
Even if someone was tempted to use the new gender recognition rules to cheat the system, the prison assessment will still apply. It may be the rules and guidelines will need to be made more explicit, but the principles are sound.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63823420
The law change in Scotland doesn't affect that directly. In practice what that currently adds up to looks like:
Even if someone was tempted to use the new gender recognition rules to cheat the system, the prison assessment will still apply. It may be the rules and guidelines will need to be made more explicit, but the principles are sound.
She and other UK based feminists who have embraced being TERFs look at it similar to suffragettes in UK being opposed by establishment while fighting for women's rights. The more they are shouted down, the more their position becomes entrenched. Don't see an end in sight to this discourse any time soon.
Good lord she’s a vile woman, isn’t she.
Children are tried as adults all the time. The courts decide. Same as they did here. It happens. There’s a whole mechanism in place.
Rowling is a truly awful human being. Imagine selling cnut loads of books about wizards and being held up as an authority on anything other than books about wizards.
It's very hostile on both sides. With most things the extreme ends of either argument are presented as the mainstream view. There's definitely not a holding pen of rapists waiting to self identify as female to gain access to women's spaces and much of the TERF argument relies on convincing people that panic is real.
On the flip side the the whole self-identification issue seems problematic, potentially. At least in terms of accessing spaces designed for women.
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This and the below clip showing TERFs like Helen Joyce saying "we need to keep their numbers down" really highlights just how awful TERFs are. Wannabe Nazis.
An awful human being for having an opinion that differs from that of your own. I just do not understand why people have so much trouble dealing with differences in outlooks these days. Very strange.
They are just worried about women's rights. Once they have solved the trans question, they can peacefully move on. Maybe they will solve the Jewish question afterwards.
Is there a more racist party in the UK? They're horrible feckers. I'm embarrassed half of the voting public up here backs them.
We're taking about the SNP here, right? And you're calling them the most racist party in the UK because?
Not the BNP, not UKIP, not the Tories. Apparently the SNP are the most racist party in the UK presumably because they want to leave the Union, which you don't like so you're flinging absolute shite around the forum?
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Was there a Lineham thread? Can’t find it anyway so I’ll pop it here