UEFA Club competitions all time ranking of winners and finalists by country

[wangyu]

So the numbers are the finals won left of the - and the finals lost at the right of the -
The results are a bit atypical in following order Conference League, Cup Winners Cup, UEFA cup/Europa league, European Cup/Champions league
Competitions left out: inter city fairs cup (not organized by UEFA), Intertoto cup, Supercup and Intercontinental cup. I deemed none of those relevant enough to be included.

1) Spain 7-7, 14-5, 19-11 = 63-40 ( finals played- finals won)
2) England 1-0, 8-5, 9-8, 15-11 = 57-33
3) Italy 1-1, 7-4, 9-8, 12-17 = 59-29
4) Germany 5-6, 7-8, 8-10 = 44-20
5) Holland 0-1, 1-1, 4-3, 6-2 = 18-11
6) Portugal 1-1, 2-5, 4-5 = 18-7
7) Belgium 3-4, 1-2, 0-1 = 11-4
8) Scotland 2-2, 0-4, 1-1 = 10-3
9) Sovjet Union 3-1 = 4-3
10) France 1-2, 0-5, 1-6 = 15-2

Noteworthy: Austrian clubs played 4 finals but lost all, Hungary played 3 and also lost all. France part of the big 5? Not in my book! Granted they did play 7 finals in the EC1/CL…
Sovjet finals all come from CWC

 

[Tyrion]

That's interesting. If France was a smaller country or had a weaker national team, we wouldn't see them as top 5 based on that. Even in recent years they don't do much better than Spain or Portugal.

 

[GuybrushThreepwood]

That's interesting. If France was a smaller country or had a weaker national team, we wouldn't see them as top 5 based on that. Even in recent years they don't do much better than Spain or Portugal.

It’s crazy to think that Feyenoord, or Porto just within the 21st century (so not counting their 1987 European Cup win), have superior European trophy hauls than all clubs in France combined.

That’s why I struggle to say that in terms of major European leagues there’s a big 5 instead of a big 4, especially given that the second of the 2 major European trophies won by a Ligue 1 club was back in 1996.

 

[Raw]

Over half of Spains win total is due to Real Madrid and Sevilla. They're just ridiculous.

 

[RedRonaldo]

France is never clear top 5 for me. At most it’s top 7. It’s has only been promoted as big 5 from the media in recent years because they want to make it more relevant with Messi, Neymar and Mbappe playing there.

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

You've forgotten to include the two Uefa cup wins by Russia and one by Ukraine.

The big five in terms of their being five top leagues and then the rest on different levels below isn't a very accurate concept. France are too far behind the others. Though to be fair, at a quick count, France have only been outside of the annual league coefficient top five.... five times since 2000, where they had a run of being in sixth, behind Portugal. The highest they have been this century was fourth for 2000 (England were fifth) and another run of fourth from 2005 to 2008 ahead of Germany. So it would be technically correct to consider them a regular member of the top five leagues by that measurement.

France were also top two from 93 to 96 and didn't fall out of the top four until 2001 when England overtakes it and begins its perma-residence there. That was its most successful period. If you compare it to the Netherlands and Portugal, it's the terrible finals record France has that really opens up a gap between them. A while ago i collected data of how many times countries had put teams into the semi-finals of the Uefa Cup, Cup Winners Cup and European Cup/Champions league for each decade starting from the '70s. I think France had more than the other two by that metric (and probably with a wider variety of teams).

You could really see the decline in competitiveness of Europe as a whole when looking at the semi-finals by country each decade. If i remember rightly the 70s had something like 15-16 different countries with semi-final teams, then when you reach the last two decades it drops dramatically.

 

[Red the Bear]

That's interesting. If France was a smaller country or had a weaker national team, we wouldn't see them as top 5 based on that. Even in recent years they don't do much better than Spain or Portugal.

That's being generous, eastern European teams in their meager state had better European records than whatever France is doing.

 

[Red the Bear]

It’s crazy to think that Feyenoord, or Porto just within the 21st century (so not counting their 1987 European Cup win), have superior European trophy hauls than all clubs in France combined.

That’s why I struggle to say that in terms of major European leagues there’s a big 5 instead of a big 4, especially given that the second of the 2 major European trophies won by a Ligue 1 club was back in 1996.

I may be off on this but I always thought the notion of the top 5 league which included France was mostly related to the quality of their national team and the players that they produced than the league itself.

Their European record is shambolic and what Benfica or ajax achieved in the 60s and 70s respectively alone eclipses their entire output.

The only truly great team that they fielded in Europe was probably that infamous marsile team.

 

[SilentWitness]

What's the table in terms of different teams from each league winning? I'd imagine the PL comes out on top in that aspect.

 

[Red the Bear]

What's the table in terms of different teams from each league winning? I'd imagine the PL comes out on top in that aspect.

Sticking to cl :
La liga 2
Italy 3
England 6 (all 6 are now in the prem with notingham forrest back)
Germany 3
Portugal 2
Holland 3 which is the most surprising

 

[11101]

The English record is better than i expected, especially considering the first few years we either didn't enter or didn't take the EC seriously, and we were banned from the lot for 6 years in the 80s thanks to Liverpool.

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

I may be off on this but I always thought the notion of the top 5 league which included France was mostly related to the quality of their national team and the players that they produced than the league itself.

Their European record is shambolic and what Benfica or ajax achieved in the 60s and 70s respectively alone eclipses their entire output.

The only truly great team that they fielded in Europe was probably that infamous marsile team.

It's a chokers record in finals that puts France comfortably behind Netherlands and Portugal. Not some big consistent gap where French teams were always crashing out much earlier; we're talking about the fine margins of winning a game or two here.

 

[711]

Sticking to cl only.
La liga 2
Italy 3
England 6 (all 6 are now in the prem with notingham forrest back in it)
Germany 3
Portugal 2
Holland 3 which is the most surprising one

Not hard to see Arsenal winning one in future, or even Newcastle if they owners ramp up spending.

 

[JPRouve]

It's a chokers record in finals that puts France comfortably behind Netherlands and Portugal. Not some big consistent gap where French teams were always crashing out much earlier; we're talking about the fine margins of winning a game or two here.

And France is historically structured differently to other leagues. Historically France didn't have teams that would dominate the league and play in Europe every year. That's why only two teams have more than 10 league titles Saint Etienne(10) and PSG(11), a competitive league isn't a good thing for continental success because teams rarely gain experience or several opportunities during their prime.

 

[711]

And France is historically structured differently to other leagues. Historically France didn't have teams that would dominate the league and play in Europe every year. That's why only two teams have more than 10 league titles Saint Etienne(10) and PSG(11), a competitive league isn't a good thing for continental success because teams rarely gain experience or several opportunities during their prime.

Compared to Spain I suppose. Bu Lyon had a hell of a run of titles, and Marseille a few too, so I don't see France as being much different to England in that respect. Bear in mind England has had Forest and Villa as champions, neither a regular title-winner.

 

[Red the Bear]

It's a chokers record in finals that puts France comfortably behind Netherlands and Portugal. Not some big consistent gap where French teams were always crashing out much earlier; we're talking about the fine margins of winning a game or two here.

Aside from Marseille against red star did they actually bottle any of their finals by the virtue of being the favorites ? and besides Marseille made that up by upsetting the great ac milan and otherwise they were almost consistently the underdogs going into those finals.

 

[JPRouve]

Compared to Spain I suppose. Bu Lyon had a hell of a run of titles, and Marseille a few too, so I don't see France as being much different to England in that respect. Bear in mind England has had Forest and Villa as champions, neither a regular title-winner.

Compared to everyone. The most league titles in France is 11, England is 21, Eredivisie is 36, Serie A is 36, La Liga is 35, Bundesliga is 33, Liga Sagres is 38.

The french league is abnormal.

 

[FrankFoot]

I may be off on this but I always thought the notion of the top 5 league which included France was mostly related to the quality of their national team and the players that they produced than the league itself.

Their European record is shambolic and what Benfica or ajax achieved in the 60s and 70s respectively alone eclipses their entire output.

The only truly great team that they fielded in Europe was probably that infamous marsile team.

France has underachieved at club level, as individually since the 80s they have had way more quality than for example England until now, but somehow never showed it at club level.
Numerous undisputed top 5 players in the world, from Platini, Papin, Zidane, Cantona, Henry, and even Ribery and Griezmann for a couple of years, and now Mbappe, and it's even way more if you look at it by positions, not just Balloon D'Or nominees who will obviously focused more on offensive players.

I think, despite not having the best european record, they got hampered very badly by the Bosman law, during the 90s they put some strong teams in Europe and were 3rd in UEFA coefficient only behind Italy and Spain, but since 2000s it all went downhill and haven't recovered yet, and i don't think they will, their best players always move immediately to England,Spain, Germany, and Italy.

 

[711]

Compared to everyone. The most league titles in France is 11, England is 21, Eredivisie is 36, Serie A is 36, La Liga is 35, Bundesliga is 33, Liga Sagres is 38.

The french league is abnormal.

Are you going back before European club competition even existed? You've had four clubs with significant runs of wins from the 60s onwards. Actually looking at it from 2000 onwards you might even be less competitive than most.

 

[FrankFoot]

Compared to everyone. The most league titles in France is 11, England is 21, Eredivisie is 36, Serie A is 36, La Liga is 35, Bundesliga is 33, Liga Sagres is 38.

The french league is abnormal.

Yeah, i noticed this too

France is the only big european country who has the most different winners.

Except from Lyon in 2000s and PSG now, i don't think there was a french dominant team that stormed the league, Marseille kinda did in 90s but not as hard as Lyon and PSG.

 

[Red the Bear]

Compared to everyone. The most league titles in France is 11, England is 21, Eredivisie is 36, Serie A is 36, La Liga is 35, Bundesliga is 33, Liga Sagres is 38.

The french league is abnormal.

Its not as abnormal as you make it sound and many of the European Cup winning teams in those other leagues didn't enjoy long stretches of time dominating their league either.

We win the league just twice in the 60s yet made the semi on the back of the first won it in our second and should have reached a second final on the back of that if not for a reffing error.
Liverpool became league champions only twice in the 70s prior to their eventual European dominance although to be fair they did get some extra experience through the uefa cup.
Notes forrest and aston villa are self explanatory.
Bayern didn't need to win ten titles in a row for their first title and hamburg so only had 2.
Same with the inter and ac milan of the 60s, they didn't dominate the league.

Compared to the the teams I mentioned there absolutely has been french teams enjoying short but relatively consistent league dominance like saint ettine in the 70s so that can't be used as an excuse at all.

 

[JPRouve]

Are you going back before European club competition even existed? You've had four clubs with significant runs of wins from the 60s onwards.

Why would I look at it from 2000s onward, when the majority of the OP is before it? And the context of pre 2000s is important since for example the C1 and C2 only had one representative per country.

And no from 2000 onward Ligue 1 isn't the least competitive that's not close, whether you look at winners or the turnover of teams in the top 6-7.

 

[Oranges038]

Compared to everyone. The most league titles in France is 11, England is 21, Eredivisie is 36, Serie A is 36, La Liga is 35, Bundesliga is 33, Liga Sagres is 38.

The french league is abnormal.

It is unusual for a league not to have a dominant team, French league is a funny one, especially when you also consider 9 of those 11 PSG wins have been in the last 10 years or so.

 

[JPRouve]

Yeah, i noticed this too

France is the only big european country who has the most different winners.

Except from Lyon in 2000s and PSG now, i don't think there was a french dominant team that stormed the league, Marseille kinda did in 90s but not as hard as Lyon and PSG.

Marseille are the one team that won the CL, PSG were the other very consistent team in the 90s and they won the C2 and should have won the C3 but failed. Lyon is the one team that should be criticized because they didn't even make a final.

 

[GazTheLegend]

I'm going to write something that's well open to potential ridicule here so I'll brace myself, particularly against @JPRouve ... sorry.

But I wonder in part if it's the historically socialist aspect of France that's prevented any sort of footballing hegemony at any point. As I just wrote in another thread, numerous other clubs Europe wide have benefitted from government aid (AC Milan, Real Madrid, Manchester City) and in England we have taken it to be an art form now. But culturally too, I wonder if once a club gets too "big" in France, fans disappear because they don't like anyone who sees themselves as greater than anyone else. That has meant there's never been a fan culture as such, other aspects of life are much more important than giving yourself (and subsequently your money) to a football club.

 

[Eric_the_Red99]

These figures really show just how weak the French league has always been. I’ve never really understood why this has always been the case, especially when the French national team has had periods of global dominance over the decades.

Whatever the reason, the weakness of their domestic competition is clearly a major factor behind PSG’s repeated failure to do what Man City and Chelsea have done in recent years, ie buying success on the European stage by spending billions.

 

[GuybrushThreepwood]

In terms of the UEFA Cup / Europa League, no Serie A club winning the competition since Parma in 1999 (and there wasn't even another Serie A finalist until Inter in 2020), no Bundesliga club winning the competition between Schalke in 1997 and Eintracht Frankfurt in 2022 (and the only 2 Bundesliga finalists during that period were both Champions League dropouts after finishing 3rd in pretty easy groups), and no Ligue 1 club winning the competition ever, really stand out.

In terms of Ligue 1, I'm not clued up about the PSV-Bastia final in the 70s, but of course Bordeaux were heavy underdogs against Bayern in 1996 (regardless of the FC Hollywood chaos), and Marseille were clear underdogs against the stacked Parma team in 1999, the well oiled Valencia machine under Benitez in 2004, and Simeone's Atleti in 2018.

Lyon always reached the knockout stages of the Champions League from 2004-2012 (though the turnaround that ensured that they progressed instead of Ajax in 2011/2012 was insane). I did wonder if they had finished 3rd in their group and dropped down into the UEFA Cup / Europa League at any point during that period, whether they'd taken it seriously and could have won it.

 

[JPRouve]

I'm going to write something that's well open to potential ridicule here so I'll brace myself, particularly against @JPRouve ... sorry.

But I wonder in part if it's the historically socialist aspect of France that's prevented any sort of footballing hegemony at any point. As I just wrote in another thread, numerous other clubs Europe wide have benefitted from government aid (AC Milan, Real Madrid, Manchester City) and in England we have taken it to be an art form now. But culturally too, I wonder if once a club gets too "big" in France, fans disappear because they don't like anyone who sees themselves as greater than anyone else. That has meant there's never been a fan culture as such, other aspects of life are much more important than giving yourself (and vicariously your money) to a football club.

It's actually the opposite, it's similar to Top 14. Teams have historically been sugar daddied to a similar degree which means that more often than not no teams had a significant advantage. As for fans again no, the main difference with other countries could be that clubs rarely have a national support, Marseille and Saint Etienne are the only teams that have managed to get a large amount of fans beyond their area, everyone else has a strong local fanbase and that's it.

And what I'm saying isn't meant to be used as an excuse, outside of the Coupe de France PSG are known as bottlers they were always highly competitive in the 90s but often managed to not win, Lyon failed to capitalize on their dominance. All the french teams that have dominated for even a small amount of time went to a C1, C2 or C3 final at the exception of Lyon.

Now the point that I'm trying to make is that as an example in order to qualify for the C1 pre 97, you had to be champion and a league that has constant turnover of champions and also as a fairly large turnover of teams in top 6-7, isn't designed to build consistency in Europe which is how most leagues get their continental wins, it's teams that are there nearly every year.

 

[FrankFoot]

It is unusual for a league not to have a dominant team, French league is a funny one, especially when you also consider 9 of those 11 PSG wins have been in the last 10 years or so.

I think their league had very well distributed talent for many decades, up until PSG arrived, and i still think they have, cause top teams still go there and sign players from mid table clubs that never challenge for the league.

For example in Netherlands it's all always been about Ajax,PSV, and Feyenoord, big clubs 99% of the time sign players only from those 3 clubs, while France had Varane going from Lens(very small club who got relegated the same season he left) to Real Madrid, and then you also have Kante battling relegation with Caen before he moved to find success in PL.

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

Aside from Marseille against red star did they actually bottle any of their finals by the virtue of being the favorites ? and besides Marseille made that up by upsetting the great ac milan and otherwise they were almost consistently the underdogs going into those finals.

When i say a chokers record, i just mean it's a very bad record on paper, not that they were individually bottling a lot of these semi-finals/finals.

I don't know what the odds were, but looking at their European Cup finals i'd guess they were only the favourite against Red Star. Not too sure about Porto vs Monaco, i'd guess Porto were favourites because they had just won the Uefa cup. Also not sure about the first Real Madrid vs Reims final which was played in Paris.

 

[Red the Bear]

When i say a chokers record, i just mean it's a very bad record on paper, not that they were individually bottling a lot of these semi-finals/finals.

I don't know what the odds were, but looking at their European Cup finals i'd guess they were only the favourite against Red Star. Not too sure about Porto vs Monaco, i'd guess Porto were favourites because they had just won the Uefa cup. Also not sure about the first Real Madrid vs Reims final which was played in Paris.

Fair enough, I took it in a literal sense.

It's a shame though, I can't think of a truly great French club side while we could do the same for all other leagues, either pre bossman or after.

 

[711]

I remember in the late sixties, at school a French teacher asking us what was the national sport of France. Lots of wrong guesses, much surprise when he eventually told us it was football.

Although Escape to Victory hadn't been made then of course.

 

[FrankFoot]

I'm going to write something that's well open to potential ridicule here so I'll brace myself, particularly against @JPRouve ... sorry.

But I wonder in part if it's the historically socialist aspect of France that's prevented any sort of footballing hegemony at any point. As I just wrote in another thread, numerous other clubs Europe wide have benefitted from government aid (AC Milan, Real Madrid, Manchester City) and in England we have taken it to be an art form now. But culturally too, I wonder if once a club gets too "big" in France, fans disappear because they don't like anyone who sees themselves as greater than anyone else. That has meant there's never been a fan culture as such, other aspects of life are much more important than giving yourself (and subsequently your money) to a football club.

There is a fan culture in France. It's just it's local, they support their local club, similar to Germany in that regard (except Bayern of course).

As someone who has been to France more than 3 times, and attended locals matches from different clubs there, their stadiums are always packing with a great atmosphere, even relegation sides, with flares and a lot of noise, and unfortunately violence too, as there has been just in the last 5 years more violence episodes involving ultras in Ligue 1 than in any other top 4 league in the last decade. If England would be experiencing the level of violence that Ligue 1 has now, they pretty much would freak out, but i guess french don't have the hooligan fame anyways, and Ligue 1 don't sell much on the news.

 

[GazTheLegend]

I don't know what the odds were, but looking at their European Cup finals i'd guess they were only the favourite against Red Star.

Well, they were bribing people in that tournament which helped their odds considerably.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/feb/23/mark-hateley-rangers-marseille

They were stripped of their ligue one title and relegated for the next season due to Bernard Tapie bribing Valenciennes (and who knows how many other people)

This was in an age when breaking the rules, bribery and cheating were not rewarded or ignored, of course.

 

[maniak]

Liga Sagres is 38.

Blast from the past, the league hasn't been called that in about 10 years.

 

[JPRouve]

Blast from the past, the league hasn't been called that in about 10 years.

I like that name and will never change it. I do that for stadiums too.