UK Exam results

[RoadTrip]

Surprised there’s not a thread on this (although I’d be equally unsurprised if I just missed it).

What they’ve done for exam results is ridiculous. I would absolutely hate to be in the situation some of these kids are in.

Obviously am cognisant that Covid has made things tricky but these results determine where you go to Uni and what course you do. Employers even still look at A level results when hiring for graduate positions. The impact this farce could have on some of these kids is huge and at worst, potentially life changing.

 

[Wumminator]

It has been hard and upsetting.
The vast majority of students have been given very close to what they should have got. I think 97% have been given within one grade of what their college gave.

 

[sun_tzu]

I read 40% of pupils were downgraded from what the teachers predicted
Yet overall results were up on last year?

So either teachers really messed up the predicted results or this year the results would have had an astronomical improvement ?

https://inews.co.uk/news/education/...lgorithm-triple-lock-u-turn-result-day-578194

 

[Chief123]

I read 40% of pupils were downgraded from what the teachers predicted
Yet overall results were up on last year?

So either teachers really messed up the predicted results or this year the results would have had an astronomical improvement ?

https://inews.co.uk/news/education/...lgorithm-triple-lock-u-turn-result-day-578194

Yep, my cousin got his results today.

He was given AAB by his teachers recommendation. But his was one of the 40% of results which were downgraded.

He was given BBB instead.

 

[RoadTrip]

It has been hard and upsetting.
The vast majority of students have been given very close to what they should have got. I think 97% have been given within one grade of what their college gave.

Yeah something like 36% downgraded by one, 3% downgraded two - which ties in.

But 1 grade can make all the difference.

 

[Skills]

It has been hard and upsetting.
The vast majority of students have been given very close to what they should have got. I think 97% have been given within one grade of what their college gave.

Yeah its worth remembering quite a large number of students end up in clearing year on year, after having missed their grades for their first choice uni. It's pretty normal.

 

[Wumminator]

I read 40% of pupils were downgraded from what the teachers predicted
Yet overall results were up on last year?

So either teachers really messed up the predicted results or this year the results would have had an astronomical improvement ?

https://inews.co.uk/news/education/...lgorithm-triple-lock-u-turn-result-day-578194

Of course teachers messed up.
if you have a kid who is say a B/A student. You go with his best result.

it’s why examinations are so important.

 

[RoadTrip]

I read 40% of pupils were downgraded from what the teachers predicted
Yet overall results were up on last year?

So either teachers really messed up the predicted results or this year the results would have had an astronomical improvement ?

https://inews.co.uk/news/education/...lgorithm-triple-lock-u-turn-result-day-578194

The whole process is fundamentally flawed.

There is an inherent bias towards the teachers’ own students. Perfect world would lead to impartially but we simply aren’t in a perfect world and whoever designed the system must have expected it.

But add in that mocks count (which is poor because the vast majority of students don’t take mocks seriously - maybe they should, but it’s a fact that they don’t and again this should be known.

I am also hugely skeptical of the algorithm itself. I bet it considers average grades bt area or school in the past. Which inherently puts kids who go to those schools at a disadvantage in the adjustment, which is also hugely unfair (what if those teachers gave true predicted grades but alas just because of location or school they were marked down?)

I have no idea how transparent the system is or if they’re released the approach l.

 

[Silva]

minority kids, especially black kids, are given lower predicted grades than they achieve. won't be long until there's a paper explaining how they were thrown to the wolves in all of this

 

[RedTiger]

My son got his place at Bournemouth uni confirmed although his marks were less then he expected.

 

[RoadTrip]

Of course teachers messed up.
if you have a kid who is say a B/A student. You go with his best result.

it’s why examinations are so important.

I would hope they predicted a score and not a grade. But heck, I would not be surprised at all if they predicted grades.

 

[Skills]

The whole process is fundamentally flawed.

There is an inherent bias towards the teachers’ own students. Perfect world would lead to impartially but we simply aren’t in a perfect world and whoever designed the system must have expected it.

But add in that mocks count (which is poor because the vast majority of students don’t take mocks seriously - maybe they should, but it’s a fact that they don’t and again this should be known.

I am also hugely skeptical of the algorithm itself. I bet it considers average grades bt area or school in the past. Which inherently puts kids who go to those schools at a disadvantage in the adjustment, which is also hugely unfair (what if those teachers gave true predicted grades but alas just because of location or school they were marked down?)

I have no idea how transparent the system is or if they’re released the approach l.

They use the schools 'progress 8' score from what my sister told me. At the school she teaches all their kids got exactly what was predicted, but their heads of dept had already pre-determined which bands each kid belongs in. And the teacher could predict within one grade of that.

 

[Wumminator]

I would hope they predicted a score and not a grade. But heck, I would not be surprised at all if they predicted grades.

You can’t predict a score. Grade boundaries change significantly every year.

 

[711]

I don't know whether the examining boards were at fault for failing to advise schools not to overestimate grades and mislead students, or whether the schools are at fault for ignoring advice.

Either way the number of university places remains the same, and the universities will adjust their requirements accordingly to fill them. Actually if the number of foreign students falls due to the covid situation there may be even more places available than usual. Having fewer foreign students wouldn't bode well for university finances in the future though.

 

[RoadTrip]

Yeah. I know of someone who got lower grades than expected and required for his course in Liverpool but he got in.

But this I believe is a different issue altogether, it’s to do with some strange circumstance where there are significantly less 18 year olds in this year than previous years. I think I read on BBC I’ll try dig it out.

 

[RoadTrip]

You can’t predict a score. Grade boundaries change significantly every year.

That’s why you WOULD predict a score though, no? Obviously correct me if wrong but it makes more sense to me.

The way I understand the boundary system works is all the papers get marked in a consistent way each year, but obviously some papers are harder than others. So one year you might get 20% who get more than 80% in terms of a mark, in the next year you might only get 10% who get more than 80%. The boundary system then balances it out.

Thinking about this year then, if you don’t predict a score which then gets adjusted, how could it possibly even remotely be fair? How would you differentiate between someone who is an A on the cusp of A* vs someone who is an A at risk of B?

 

[Wumminator]

That’s why you WOULD predict a score though, no? Obviously correct me if wrong but it makes more sense to me.

The way I understand the boundary system works is all the papers get marked in a consistent way each year, but obviously some papers are harder than others. So one year you might get 20% who get more than 80% in terms of a mark, in the next year you might only get 10% who get more than 80%. The boundary system then balances it out.

Thinking about this year then, if you don’t predict a score which then gets adjusted, how could it possibly even remotely be fair? How would you differentiate between someone who is an A on the cusp of A* vs someone who is an A at risk of B?

Schools were asked to predict a grade but also rank order kids. So a kid who is a strong A was less likely to go down compared to a kid who was on the cusp.

 

[RoadTrip]

Schools were asked to predict a grade but also rank order kids. So a kid who is a strong A was less likely to go down compared to a kid who was on the cusp.

Got you - thanks

 

[dumbo]

Is there any way that this can be blamed on Michael Gove and is there anyway that we could erect a giant wicker structure to put him inside and then set it on fire.

 

[Simbo]

Wish I had this back in the day as an excuse for my shit grades

 

[Wibble]

Is there any way that this can be blamed on Michael Gove and is there anyway that we could erect a giant wicker structure to put him inside and then set it on fire.

The precautionary principle dictates that we should do this

 

[0le]

What were some of the issues raised surrounding the idea about kids just retaking the year and doing their exams next summer?

 

[Skills]

What were some of the issues raised surrounding the idea about kids just retaking the year and doing their exams next summer?

Capacity. In both schools and universities.

 

[Pexbo]

So apparently there was a fairly last minute change to the system and teachers with smaller class sizes (<15) were trusted more and their predicted grades given more weight. Teachers with very small classes (<5) were trusted entirely.

Guess which types of school have small classes and guess which ones have fecking massive classes?

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Yeah. I know of someone who got lower grades than expected and required for his course in Liverpool but he got in.

But this I believe is a different issue altogether, it’s to do with some strange circumstance where there are significantly less 18 year olds in this year than previous years. I think I read on BBC I’ll try dig it out.

Clearly a lot less overseas students this year, so universities will have more places for UK students and be a lot more flexible with grades.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Of course teachers messed up.
if you have a kid who is say a B/A student. You go with his best result.

it’s why examinations are so important.

There is no perfect way of doing this without exams.

Who would have thought teachers, who would over grade students - when, a they are emotionally attached to some their students, and b it benefits them when their students get higher grades.

It’s obviously flawed when grades given are so much higher than in any previous year.

 

[Pexbo]

Clearly a lot less overseas students this year, so universities will have more places for UK students and be a lot more flexible with grades.

Will they though? UK students have fees capped at around £9250 / year. Overseas students pay double or even triple that and it’s a vital source of income for the Uni’s.

 

[Penna]

You'd hope there would be flexibility from the universities as this is such an unusual situation for everybody - they all have systems for clearing and they can of course look at other factors.

I suspect that the kids who'll have most problems will be those from schools in poorer areas who had offers for very competitive courses, like medicine and veterinary science. If the course can still be filled with students who were awarded four A*s, that's what will happen.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Will they though? UK students have fees capped at around £9250 / year. Overseas students pay double or even triple that and it’s a vital source of income for the Uni’s.

1/3 of the fees from overseas students is better than nothing. Obviously there will be less overseas students coming to the UK this year.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

So apparently there was a fairly last minute change to the system and teachers with smaller class sizes (<15) were trusted more and their predicted grades given more weight. Teachers with very small classes (<5) were trusted entirely.

Guess which types of school have small classes and guess which ones have fecking massive classes?

Of course. They have to look after their own and keep the system as it is. If it ruins the lives of "plebs" then so be it...

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Is there any way that this can be blamed on Michael Gove and is there anyway that we could erect a giant wicker structure to put him inside and then set it on fire.

Actually we can because he was the one who scrapped modular A levels in favour of memory tests. I didn't even realise that they weren't doing coursework any more until I quizzed my stepdaughter on it last night.

 

[ThierryHenry]

I read 40% of pupils were downgraded from what the teachers predicted
Yet overall results were up on last year?

So either teachers really messed up the predicted results or this year the results would have had an astronomical improvement ?

https://inews.co.uk/news/education/...lgorithm-triple-lock-u-turn-result-day-578194

I honestly think that would have been fine. Three points;
1) These kids are already so disadvantaged by the impact Covid-19 is having on one of the most important years of their lives - both the final year of their A-Levels, and the potential first year of their degrees.
2) There's no fair way to implement this mass downgrade program. It seems to have been done based on schools historic attainment rates. I agree that that's logical, but it's impossible to do this in a way that doesn't unfairly punish some students who would have received higher grades. It's the same argument made with the justice system. It's more important to let a hundred guilty men escape, than one innocent man suffer. Why has that principle not been applied here?
3) This will clearly disadvantage students from lower class and minority backgrounds:

minority kids, especially black kids, are given lower predicted grades than they achieve. won't be long until there's a paper explaining how they were thrown to the wolves in all of this

 

[ThierryHenry]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

That's horrendous, and a clear example of the injustice of this approach.

 

[lynchie]

I really don't understand the benefit of dropping the grades of these kids. Seriously, just give them a break, a bloody pandemic hit in one of the most important years in their education. If they get one mark overgraded, does that really hurt anyone? And of course the way they've done it just increases the bias toward independent school kids.

 

[Pexbo]

I honestly think that would have been fine. Three points;
1) These kids are already so disadvantaged by the impact Covid-19 is having on one of the most important years of their lives - both the final year of their A-Levels, and the potential first year of their degrees.
2) There's no fair way to implement this mass downgrade program. It seems to have been done based on schools historic attainment rates. I agree that that's logical, but it's impossible to do this in a way that doesn't unfairly punish some students who would have received higher grades. It's the same argument made with the justice system. It's more important to let a hundred guilty men escape, than one innocent man suffer. Why has that principle not been applied here?
3) This will clearly disadvantage students from lower class and minority backgrounds:

On top of that, A-Level results matter for one thing only and that’s getting into higher education. Beyond that, nobody will care if your A* in 2020 is worth less than an A* in 2019. It’s not like a degree that will be a consideration on a CV for a period.

Surely it’s in the governments interest to get kids into Uni as it keeps the unemployment figures down which will be crucial for the next few years.

I can’t see any other explanation to how they have handled this other than to keep the divide between the state schools and the public schools.

 

[ThierryHenry]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[SilentWitness]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

It's not just the privilege that Lord Bethell is ignoring or forgetting here.

I'm from a working class family. Neither of my parents went to uni - I'm the first. I fluffed my exams too. When I was 16/17 and about to sit my Highers/A Levels i first got glandular fever which meant I was off school for a couple of months. When I came back to school I started to develop severe anxiety and from then on I've battled anxiety and depression my whole life. I fluffed my exams but then managed to construct my life back together myself to a level where I could manage it and since then I've going to uni to do a BA and then managed to do an MA at a uni which (at the point of me doing my MA) had the best department in Europe for the subject I was taking.

I'm very proud of those achievements and it shows that it is possible to bring yourself back from poor exam results at school but the problem here is far beyond that. These things were in my control and they were individual to me / not common throughout the UK whereas this situation has generalised and taken all control from the student. There has been no chance for them to fluff or not fluff their exams, it's been reduced to other perceptions. There will be some who can brush it off and still succeed like myself or others who fluffed their exams before, but there will be some who have been utterly destroyed by this and will have most likely lost faith in the education system.

 

[Skills]

I'm coming around to the other side now, that the mass downgrading/moderation doesn't work.

I think they should've just turned a blind eye to it this year. Worst that could happen is if someone is overreaching for a university place, they just fail first year and drop out. Hardly the worst outcome as plenty of people do that irrespective of their A Level grades anyway

 

[saivet]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Insightful thread, for those like me who don't know much about this.

 

[Ubik]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Seems properly batshit. This is also why it was dumb to do away with AS levels and coursework.

 

[horsechoker]

I reckon that the ones who were downgraded were pricks to their teachers or the teachers were pricks.