UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

[Berbaclass]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50424263

Thanks.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

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[PoTMS]

Can London not be independent too? We don't feck with the rest of the country.

 

[sammsky1]

Let’s just stick with corbynism then, never get elected and allow the Tories to decimate the country.

There will be plenty of time for recriminations, and as a party member, Im going to give them the full barrel.

Many of us warned that Labour will never win without its left centre bloc. Since 2015, left centre Labour members have complained the party manifesto was causing huge personal conflict and so making the party very hard to get behind. Many neutral observers have commented that Corbyn's policies felt like a move towards communism. But these people were vilified and hounded to the periphery of the party.

Perhaps a left centrist leader means a less radical social agenda, but Im not convinced that 5th richest nation in the world has a place for a pure socialism.

Corbyn has made the left movement weaker than its been since the days of Kinnock and Foot. His was a catastrophic choice of leader, indicates that the party leader selection process is fundamentally flawed and in urgent need for renewal. Labour must pivot closer to the centre while Boris implements his right wing agenda.

 

[Redlambs]

What you're advocating is simply giving up. That leftists everywhere should just accept that the right won, and the only realistic options are 'not that far to the right, hunting the poor for sport is still frowned upon' or 'proper right where business owns your fecking soul'.

These are not appealing options to your average left-leaning voter. You can alienate them easily by simply giving them more neoliberalism - and frankly, that's reasonable: if you want that, you might as well vote Tory/Republican/Liberal (in Aus).

And of course a lot of it is simply urban-rural divide and generational divide. In that, demographics are against the conservatives. There should be a shift, eventually - let's hope the world can hold out until then.

So talking about Labour moving back in some is suddenly giving up and alienating everyone and fecking the poor.

Yeah right, just the sort of over reaction I expect from stubborn people who just don't want to see sense.


I tell you what, let's just keep corbyn and see how many of these people you are talking about will stay Labour, in fact you can all get together in a big hall and continue to blame everyone and everything for this humiliation.

 

[Ubik]

One good thing - Finchley and Golders Green may go Lib Dem. Berger is a good MP and deserved better from Labour.

 

[Siorac]

So surely some kind of reasonable centrist is exactly what we need? With Boris and Co pulling further to the right, pulling to the left looks just as unpalatable to the electable.

Look, if the exit polls are correct, and Boris fecking Johnson achieved a historic win, then we really should forget the idea that 'reasonable centrists' appeal to people.

Look at the US. The reasonable centrist was beaten by the far-right demagogue - and I expect it will happen again if they run reasonable centrist Biden against him.

It's reasonable centrist neoliberalism that led to the 2008 crisis, to the growing income inequality in developed countries, to the cost of living rising far more steeply than wages do. More of that is pointless. And why would it be a winning strategy when Brexit and Trump were actually born out of the consequences of that centrism.

 

[Berbaclass]

My seat is 99% chance Conservative hold. Sad times.

 

[sebsheep]

The flesh of murdered innocents. I have a lamp shade made from the skin of princess Diana.

You joke about it, but Tory cuts have caused deaths. Bit of weird thing to be being so daft about.

 

[dumbo]

Just for giggles - surely we need some light relief...

A teacher asked her class how many of them were Jeremy Corbyn fans.
Not really knowing what a Jeremy Corbyn fan is, but wanting to be liked by the teacher, all the kids raised their hands except for Little Johnny.
The teacher asked Little Johnny why he has decided to be different...again.
Little Johnny said, 'Because I'm not a Jeremy Corbyn fan.'
The teacher asked, 'Why aren't you a Jeremy Corbyn fan?'
Johnny said, 'Because I'm a Conservative.'
The teacher asked him why he's a Conservative.
Little Johnny answered,
'Well, my Mum's a Conservative and my Dad's a Conservative, so I'm a Conservative.'
Annoyed by this answer, the teacher asked, 'If your Mum was a moron and your Dad was an idiot, what would that make you?’
Little Johnny replied, 'A Jeremy Corbyn fan !!

What?
Why?
Is it some sort of joke?

Probably your best post all the same congratulations.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Where can I see these figures?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50424263

Don't think it works for Scotland. I am wary of the 55 figure.

Yeah it seems a bit weird, and shows a lack of due diligence tbh. The SNP candidate became independent a couple of weeks back.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

What's going to happen if the Tories win big, but Johnson loses his seat

 

[Flying high]

My bad, I forgot you guys on here love left/right debates and see everything on those terms.

But no, I'm talking about moving back in some, not going all the way centrist. That won't work either.

I'm also not saying that's how it should be, I agree completely our politics need to change. But for that to happen, Labour need to get back in and they need to do what it takes. That's the harsh reality mate, if tonight doesn't prove that then nothing will.

The 2017 Labour manifesto was pretty bloody moderate though. Even this years wasn't extreme left in the grand scheme of things, though I must admit to worrying that it was a bit too heavy on the spending. But the tories played that well, by promising huge spending themselves(they probably won't go through with most of it) they were able to push Labour to a point that made too many people worry about debt.

I sincerely hope that Labour find a good leader now. I have no idea who if I'm honest.

But if all the next leader does is try to follow the tories in going further and further to the right, then all the problems we all know about in this country will simply get worse and worse.

 

[Boycott]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50424263

Check forecasts for your constituency. Mine is 99% Labour.

 

[Redlambs]

I just genuinely thought that's what you meant, wasn't trying to be absolute about it for debate purposes.
If the rumours about the Tories looking to change the boundaries are true then it could be difficult either way.

No problem mate, it's not you it's just these kinds of debates go that way on here all the time. I'm already being told I'm advocating for Labour giving up and I should vote Tory. That's the level of debate faced all too often.

But I'm just going with how we come back from this. The Conservatives are just going to change so much with this majority, Labour need a huge plan to fight back. I just can't get my head around people thinking everything should stay the same there, it makes no sense to me at all.

 

[Berbaclass]

What's going to happen if the Tories win big, but Johnson loses his seat

Nothing, they'll get around it somehow.

 

[GDaly95]

Britain: You are a complete and utter disgrace

 

[The Brown Bull]

What's wrong with you Britain?
How could you.

 

[Sir Matt]

With what the Dems are doing we may see Trump and Johnson giving each other blowjobs.

I will caucus for Bernie March 3rd.
Wont vote for the Dem candidate if he does not get the nomination.

How has that childish attitude worked out for us? You support four more years of Donald Trump's corruption, cruelty, and division if Bernie doesn't get the nomination.

 

[The Brown Bull]

Britain: You are a complete and utter disgrace

Agreed.

 

[Olly Gunnar Solskjær]

You joke about it, but Tory cuts have caused deaths. Bit of weird thing to be being so daft about.

He just doesn't care about them. Simple.

 

[sebsheep]

Hard left was the wrong choice of words, but Corbyn is definitely seen as way too left by the electorate.

Probably, which always seems a bit crazy when you look at the things they want to do to help people.

 

[lewwoo]

You joke about it, but Tory cuts have caused deaths. Bit of weird thing to be being so daft about.

How have they? How do you measure deaths under a partys rule and quantify that? How many people died under labour leadership?

 

[Redlambs]

We're reliably informed that the Tories are fecked in future.

I'm reliably informed that no one on here has a fecking clue about any of it.

 

[sammsky1]

Next Labour leader should carry on what Corbyn was building. No way should it become centrist again.

thats a laughable strategy if you're a labour supporter

 

[Skills]

What's going to happen if the Tories win big, but Johnson loses his seat

Someone else will stand down for him

 

[Shamwow]

Just for giggles - surely we need some light relief...

A teacher asked her class how many of them were Jeremy Corbyn fans.
Not really knowing what a Jeremy Corbyn fan is, but wanting to be liked by the teacher, all the kids raised their hands except for Little Johnny.
The teacher asked Little Johnny why he has decided to be different...again.
Little Johnny said, 'Because I'm not a Jeremy Corbyn fan.'
The teacher asked, 'Why aren't you a Jeremy Corbyn fan?'
Johnny said, 'Because I'm a Conservative.'
The teacher asked him why he's a Conservative.
Little Johnny answered,
'Well, my Mum's a Conservative and my Dad's a Conservative, so I'm a Conservative.'
Annoyed by this answer, the teacher asked, 'If your Mum was a moron and your Dad was an idiot, what would that make you?’
Little Johnny replied, 'A Jeremy Corbyn fan !!

You should tell that joke to some disabled people who have to deal with universal credit, they'll love it. All Tories are cnuts. Enjoy your five houses and turning down work because you'll get taxed a little bit more. Heartless cnut.

 

[sullydnl]

What's going to happen if the Tories win big, but Johnson loses his seat

He ultimately still becomes PM, nobody really cares because the headline is a crushing Tory win.

 

[esmufc07]

Accurate

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[Ubik]

What's going to happen if the Tories win big, but Johnson loses his seat

99% Tory hold per beeb predictor.

 

[Pexbo]

What's going to happen if the Tories win big, but Johnson loses his seat

Exit polls have him as safe. 99% chance.

 

[RedSky]

No problem mate, it's not you it's just these kinds of debates go that way on here all the time. I'm already being told I'm advocating for Labour giving up and I should vote Tory. That's the level of debate faced all too often.

But I'm just going with how we come back from this. The Conservatives are just going to change so much with this majority, Labour need a huge plan to fight back. I just can't get my head around people thinking everything should stay the same there, it makes no sense to me at all.

We won't fight back, Tories will deliver Brexit and that will be Tories new base from now on. The old and the Brexiteers. Don't really know where the UK can go from here, Labour can go back to New Labour (puke) and attempt to recover some votes but I don't think it will make much difference. The only way Labour can get back into being competitive is if Brexit is a disaster and the Tories flog off the NHS (this imo will 100% happen now). Not straight away, but slowly using Brexit as a distraction.

I might feel differently in a week, but I have zero faith in the Tories under Boris' rule. He is the worst kind of Politician we could have in this country as PM imo.

 

[Boycott]

The only way this country will get a left wing government if they campaign in the middle then once elected shift to the left.

This country is a conservative nation. An 86 seat majority will probably be enough for two terms to take the Tories through to 2029 --- exactly half a century since Thatcher. Of which the only Labour government for an uninterrupted 13 years was "New Labour".

 

[Fluctuation0161]

If the exit poll is right Brexit party has been an utterly pointless entity..

On the contrary, they set the blueprint for the current Tories. They were the prototype!

 

[Irwin99]

The two biggest selling newspapers in England are The Sun and The Daily Mail. Am I right in thinking that The Sun has backed every single winner since the 70s and only backed New labour because of it's move to the centre?

 

[mu4c_20le]

What's wrong with you Britain?
How could you.

I blame Hillary.

 

[Ubik]

I'm reliably informed that no one on here has a fecking clue about any of it.

Can't argue with that.

Still a little shellshocked myself, worse than 2015.

 

[Redlambs]

Probably, which always seems a bit crazy when you look at the things they want to do to help people.

Oh I agree.

However it's not just about the people, as infuriating as that is. Keeping business sweet is a massive part, and frankly they just have failed to inspire confidence. I know that as I have one and it was so agonising talking to others and trying to convince them we should do the right thing. In fact, in all the groups of small owners I'm involved in, I think there's barely a handful of us I know of who voted labour. And I have already been getting 'joke' texts about my allegience in this election.

 

[Dumbstar]

Just to be clear, are the Tories bricking it? Surely they never imagined they would have to see Brexit through. Its like picking a fight with a bigger dude and hoping he won't show up. Now to get your head so obviously kicked in while everyone watches.

 

[Pexbo]

The two biggest selling newspapers in England are The Sun and The Daily Mail. Am I right in thinking that The Sun has backed every single winner since the 70s and only backed New labour because of it's move to the centre?

Only back New Labour because Blair did a deal with Murdoch over press freedom/accountability. Cameron did a similar deal over Leveson.