Its the nature of the market right now. Look at the deal for Joao Felix. £100m+ for a player who's greatest achievement is one good game in the Europa League. He looked completely out of his depth in the Nations League finals against Switzerland and lost his place for the next game.
Under 21 Euros 2019
- Thread starter FootballHQ
- Start date
Just read the quotes from Dean Henderson after the defeat. That's all you need to do to realise the problem.
You wilfully ignored the other parts of my points
It also depends as what you class as 'flops'. If you mean that perhaps they'll never better a major international tournament quarter final then you may well be correct. Like nearly all the sides that appear in these tournaments you will get plenty in the squads that have mediocre careers and and handful that become top level players. I think a number in this England squad will make the top level or thereabouts.
Sides like Germany's 2009 winning side are few and far between where they have numerous players that go on to win a major international tournament. For every side like that there's plenty more like Holland's 2006 winning side which had Royston Drenthe and Ryan Babel as it's stand outs. An interesting fact for you is that Sweden u21 won this competition in 2015 beating a Portugal side featuring Bernado Silva and that and had humiliated Germany 5-0 in the semi finals. Their stars from that competition didn't really do much to prevent your terrible England side from enjoying a routine victory over them in the 2018 World Cup.
Really happy to see the German U-21 doing well though you can question the quality of opposition they have faced till now, they have had a favourable draw when you consider England/France and Italy/Spain are grouped against each other. Though, you can argue that it's not necessary that the best national teams have the best U-21 teams, we have seen a lot of upsets before.
Delighted to see Waldschmidt continuing on from his impressive Freiburg season, he has a quality left foot and technically strong. A potential future striker for Germany. Besides that Henrichs has surprisingly impressed me because I never thought he was worth the hype at the start of his career, too weak defensively; lets see what he does against better opposition. Dahoud-Eggestein-Neuhas are all talent and can make the step up to the national team.
It's incredible when you look at the number of games all these players have played in the BL, I think Nubel is the least experienced out of them because he's had a half season as a starter at Schalke. Tah, Henrich, Klostermann, Baumgartl, Eggestein, Dahoud, Oztunali, Meier, Amiri have had multiple years starting for their clubs, wouldn't be surprised if they each have over 100 professional appearances at the highest level, including Champions League. Don't think you can say the same for some of the other top teams.
Delighted to see Waldschmidt continuing on from his impressive Freiburg season, he has a quality left foot and technically strong. A potential future striker for Germany. Besides that Henrichs has surprisingly impressed me because I never thought he was worth the hype at the start of his career, too weak defensively; lets see what he does against better opposition. Dahoud-Eggestein-Neuhas are all talent and can make the step up to the national team.
It's incredible when you look at the number of games all these players have played in the BL, I think Nubel is the least experienced out of them because he's had a half season as a starter at Schalke. Tah, Henrich, Klostermann, Baumgartl, Eggestein, Dahoud, Oztunali, Meier, Amiri have had multiple years starting for their clubs, wouldn't be surprised if they each have over 100 professional appearances at the highest level, including Champions League. Don't think you can say the same for some of the other top teams.
Dean Henderson is very arrogant. I posted in another thread the other day that he will be well hated by oppo fans if he ever becomes our number 1.
He's only expressing what every single player in every side in the tournament will believe - that they can beat the other teams.
I do feel 'the problem' is something you are imagining based on some pre-conceived prejudice, however. Although badly expressed, Henderson is simply saying something that 95% of all the players and teams in the comp will believe - that they are good enough to win the competition. It's what you call a 'type A' personality and almost essential if you want to succeed in top level sport. There's no point turning up if you don't believe you can win. I feel your implication is loaded with the idea that England players think they can turn up and win without much effort and that they are somehow entitled to do so. I don't believe that is the case.
We are capable of beating Romania and France, we have beaten that Romania side in recent times and we have shot ourselves in the foot here. I don't think there is anything controversial about that.
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Out. Going home.
Thanks for letting us know. Have a safe trip.
1)Palermo wasn't midtable, they took them 20 points for some financial thibg
2)Serie B is low scoring league
3)It's difficult to play to Palermo because of their politics, he was rotared with bunch of bad players for some reason, his role was also to hold up ball rather than score (prima punta, seconda punta thing)
Yep... I read Henderson's comments and thought same old, same old arrogance.
We sometimes think we are the only country producing promising young players.
... And this is only Europe.. Some humility would not go amiss.
I think Denmark kinda looked like England minus the defensive clownery. It's really hard to judge things at this level, since people are so unfamiliar with other nation's players and you have very few games you can use as benchmarks.
Believing in yourself and talking yourself up before the tournament is one thing, but talking about winning the tournament and how you think you can ("realistically") beat the best team, after Romania just delivered you a hard Brexit does indeed sound a tad arrogant or mildly delusional.
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Plus a complete bellend of a coach.
That's Dean Henderson the individual. Have there been any other players in the England setup at any level that have been disrespectful to opponents in recent times?
Dean Henderson is exceptionally arrogant. He recently claimed that football is full of characterless 'robots' and that he won't tone down. Perhaps this will be his downfall in the game but I don't feel he's representative of the England set up as a whole.
Denmark of only qualified for a couple of the 12 or so u17 & u19 tournaments that these group of players would have played in and they went out at the group stage in them.
Austria have qualified for a lot more but have gone out in the group stage in all but 2 where they went out in the next round.
Serbia qualified for 3 and only got out of the group once and lost in the next round. They did win the u20 World Cup in 2015 though. So they really capitalised on that one group stage success.
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He's not exactly wrong either.
We more than matched France (were better until the red) and Romania were limited to counter attacking football. When Foden came on we were close to scoring 2/3 times and their keeper made some great saves.
Then the typical collapse of individual errors happened and we lost. We were clearly the better team IMO, Romania were hanging on at that point, that's not being bias.
I don't think Boothroyds team selections were great either. Swapped the team around way too much especially the 2nd game.
Ady Boothroyd is the manager.
They were not 'limited to counter attacking football'. Counters and pressing is their game and you played their game. Not sure what you were better at than either France or Romania, France fecked up two penalties and Romania were the team to go ahead each time.
Didn't watch the matches then.
First France Penalty was a joke, 2nd was fair enough. The red changed the game. Even then they relied on a mistake to win the match.
Yes Romania played that way in the first half but the 2nd half they hardly had a sniff until we threw it away with stupid decisions. On a different day we could have won that game 5-0.
I hate this tournament formula so much. Now even if we get beaten by a single goal by Spain, we will have no chance to progress despite beating Belgium and Italy. Nonsense.
Sorry to hear that.
You speak as if the opposing teams didn't make mistakes and they won purely thanks to mistakes of your own. France's defending was comedy gold which can easily be tracked in this thread yet you couldn't capitalise on it at all. But since you've already said that you didn't watch the matches then let me help you with some highlights:
I mean yeah, imagine hardly having a sniff in the second half and still scoring 4 goals, nevermind having the exact same number of shots on goal. On a different day they could've or should have put two past you in the first half and all would've been well and over before the second half.
What did he say?
Just can't believe how embarrassing it was losing 2-1 late in extra time. I for one was shamed for life.
I find it bizarre that all the senior tournaments are expanding to stupid numbers and the showpiece under 21 even is stuck at what 12 teams? Just go to 16 and have the proper format of two going through from each group.
In light of our numerous mistakes that led to our downfall I wouldn't argue that we deserve anything more than we got from this tournament.
I do wonder if you watched the England - Romania games though. We had 25 attempts to their 15 and could have scored 5 in the last 5 minutes alone.
Not necessarily a contradiction to show humility and pride. I’m going in the Parade today, but it’s not something I brag about.
No I meant you clearly didn't. Apart from the first 15 against Romania we dominated them fairly comfortably IMO.
Are you talking about his pre match comments (that you read post match) or the comment he made after the match?
Sunjic? Really? If he ends up having career as good as Antolic he can count himself lucky. His skills are combination of average and useless.
You mean that shite team the whole nation and even Linekar was crawing about being easy? Only to be slaughtered by the world and especially Croatian papers about being humbled of our arrogance?
The scoreline didn't reflect the siege we suffered and the complete outplaying we endured.
Yeah it was a combination of Rooney's silent domination and LVG's exhilarating Joga Bonito.
It's 'views' like this that make English fans look both deluded and arrogant about their teams.
Don't remember any of this but sure, whatever. I remember the Croatians being terrible winners afterwards and taking the jovial 'it's coming home!' shit far too seriously, but I certainly don't remember anybody calling them 'shite' or deciding it would be a walkover. Most people accepted they were a very good team but not absolute top level so we had a chance .. which we did, it was a close game. But yeah we were oh so arrogant for being happy to be in a semi final, jesus christ liven up.We dominated the first half, should have gone in to HT 2-0 up (Kane not passing across the box haunts me to this day) and then got battered in the 2nd half/most of ET, but they really weren't creating loads of chances from open play and it wasn't some embarrassing game. They were better but we were leading for much of the game in normal time, you trying to act like it was some embarrassing walkover is really pathetic, we were beat by the better side but not destroyed. It was a competitive match.
Honestly it's like when it comes to England nobody can be remotely reasonable. Everyone just has to shit on the team constantly and the people who are remotely optimistic or happy to support their NT are arrogant/deluded/whatever, it's honestly so irritating. We did well in the world cup and went out in ET to a very good croatia side but yeah, it was embarrassing and the world was laughing at us. Get a fecking grip.
What was wrong with what he said?
England clearly underachieved in this tournament, which is what he said.
You're showing your anti English bias. How can you watch that match and not deduce that we were clearly the better team? Abraham/Calvert-Lewin could have both had hattricks, Dowell had a header cleared off the line, Maddison had a chance well saved in the 2nd half and a free kick go very close..
The end score line really doesn't sum this match up.
Oh and U21 tournaments are a learning process, talented sides feck up in this competition all the time. People trying to act like it means England's future is doomed (despite very promising results elsewhere at youth level) are being ridiculous, it's good experience.
We had a poor coach and that needs to improve, but the national teams fortunes are pretty good at senior level. We're clearly not the world's best side (or even close to it) but we are a decent team who you can actually be somewhat proud to support during tournaments, so give it a fecking rest with the doom and gloom.
Fans of shit teams who barely ever qualify for any tournaments even at youth level trying to get their kicks in can piss off as well. You'd all be having a fecking party just for being there.
We had a poor coach and that needs to improve, but the national teams fortunes are pretty good at senior level. We're clearly not the world's best side (or even close to it) but we are a decent team who you can actually be somewhat proud to support during tournaments, so give it a fecking rest with the doom and gloom.
Fans of shit teams who barely ever qualify for any tournaments even at youth level trying to get their kicks in can piss off as well. You'd all be having a fecking party just for being there.
Yep, always same faces managing younger sides who contribute nothing to their development.
He has lungs for 3 players, once he was out, Dinamo midfield was non existent no matter who they played in his position. But that's just my opinion, I could be very wrong.
You should have gone into halftime up by 2 or 3 goals. Then shat all over yourselves and the pitch in the second half and extra time
It's not just this, England could have played completely different team like Sancho, Rashford, Chilwell, Alli, Joe Gomez, TAA, Rice, Winks, RLC, Hudson Odoi.
RLC and Hudson Odoi are injured but rest all are eligible to play for U21. Few teams played teams full of 22,23 year old players. England could have easily fielded different team with so much experience at highest level.
Won't stop the anti-England/shit on England at every possible opportunity brigade though. Every England matchday thread in the world cup was filled with people basically frothing at the mouth waiting for England to lose a game.
And what was Romania's track record at youth level before they got six points and eight goals from two matches?
Marco Richter had under three hours of youth international games under his belt before he came to the u21 tournament and scored three, assisted two in as many matches.
Players develop and mature so differently at that age, I don't think previous youth competitions tell you a whole lot about how good a team will be.
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Usual shit. When England reaches this level our players tend to be fairly inexperienced compared to their counterparts.
Upamecano and Sarr have more European minutes (Europa+CL) than the entire England Squad.
Upamecano and Sarr have more European minutes (Europa+CL) than the entire England Squad.
Because like @roonster09 says a large majority of our best U21 talents have been promoted to the senior squad.