Fantastic. Then cut the pretence and feck off to a Super league, and then watch most fans watch any football but that Super League.
United and Liverpool driving "Project Big Picture" - Football’s biggest shake-up in a generation
- Thread starter Samid
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I reckon our sheik saying "Qatar or the Saudi's can't have a club because of their HR record" would be hilarious.
let’s be real we got lucky that we were winning when the huge money came in which has meant other teams have needed sugar daddys to keep up
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Other beneficiaries of backdated payments:
Liverpool: 30m.
City: 12.5m.
Brighton: If they stay up this year and if the proposals are signed off before the end of this season; could just miss out.
Future beneficiaries, taking into account current plans:
Everton: 250m.
Liverpool: 30m.
The inevitable, self serving caveats:
- Clubs can apply for up to 250m, but only if they've been in the Prem for 12 out of the last 15 years.
- You're allowed up to150m if you've been in for 8 out of the last 10.
- You're allowed up to 100m if you've been in for the last 4.
- Your project has to cost at least 50m to be eligible.
- Payments backdated for projects completed in the last 10 years.
- All newly promoted clubs would be obliged to hold back £25 million per season for their first two years in the league, greatly reducing their spending power and chances of survival.
- The Premier League will tell its members that by season 2025-2026, when the full transition has been completed, under PBP proposals the bottom club would earn between £40 million and £50 million and the top club around £160 million. That would make the ratio between top earners and the lowest 1:4. The £40 million to £50 million figure represents a huge fall from the £102 million that bottom club Norwich City earned last season.
feck off with this bullshit
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I mean I have no ties to Manchester at all short of attending two games at Old Trafford and passing through on the way to the Lake District, so I don't think it has anything to do with that. More that we have fans who have lost sight of what's really important in life, and what they really stand for as people, not as United fans.
For most countries the World Cup is the big one (Although for England and Australia it's probably the Ashes), neither of which can really be bought with money. Similarly in the IPL everyone has a similar-ish budget and you have to figure out what players you want to have in what wage bracket, so I suppose it's closest to the NFL in that sense? Football is the only sport really that seems to deem it necessary for money to be the biggest factor in how successful you are.
It's almost worth it for a headline like thisYeah, but United took that leap of faith first.
That line of logic is inapplicable since you could argue that every innovator at the beginning of a franchise's mass adoption just 'got lucky'.
So initially, huge gains and reliefs for lower leagues and good bonus mOney for top elite clubs. followed by only greater share of profit each year onwards for the top elites
What leap of faith did we take? Winning the league and CL under a great manager? We didn't innovate anything, it was just mighty good timing on our part, that could realistically have happened to any other team, it just happened to be us. SAF didn't sit down with the owner and say "Right, this football thing is about to enter some huge money territory soon, we need to make sure that we're successful when it does"
Expanding the business, leveraging distribution systems throughout the commonwealth, playing exhibition games in other countries, using the club's appeal to bring in money beyond the usual ticket fees, embracing the global nature of the game like no other team before and becoming the figurehead of English and European football in Asia, Africa and North America? The money fed the machine. It's a system.
Inter, AC Milan, Juventus, Barcelona, Real Madrid were all playing catch up even with a leg up in the early 90s.
It's luck if you wanna call it luck. Everything is.
Maybe a little loss of interest comes with age but then I think I cant even be bothered looking at a match as i keep thinking about what is behind it all. So its more than that.
There is no passion at United anymore and thats very evident. There is no visible plan to at least bring us fans on a journey with them and to keep us patient while the rebuild happens. Its like they just drift from one year of financial results to the next. I have said this before about how Woodward is great at marketing and making the bottom line look great while the actual product the brand "sells" ( the football) is mostly sub standard shite for the last 7 or 8 years. The bottom line still looks good because the fecker is selling sponsorship deals to beat the band.
Our own club in such hands has sapped me of my love for it and for the game and now this blatant money and power grab is further diminishing the remaining interest. The world cup at Christmas next year because of FIFA is diminishing my love for the game. Its all about money and with that then you get the players that are just ego maniacs and too interested in Insta and all that shite. There are very few pure footballers left.
Its sad.
I don’t see the obsession over having 18 teams in the league. I would prefer they get rid of the league cup and make the fa cup a more comprehensive competition with group stages and double knockout stage fixtures. All in all, I believe this is just a power grab by the top club. Even though there are some good points in there, the negative ones stands out too much for this to be taken seriously.
The thing is, the World Cup is where you still see football at it's purest in my opinion. The sheer emotion and passion that you see on there when players are representing their country is something you don't get in club football anymore. That's just one of the reasons why it always has been, and will likely remain my favorite tournament.
I cannot emphasize enough how the loan point makes the entire plan stillborn on arrival. Any club that signs on to this can feck off.
this is just a power grab by us and liverpool
if this goes through then football is fecked
if this goes through then football is fecked
It’s pretty obvious why it makes a difference. If Man United were able to loan out 15 players and 4 to any one club, they would overload their academies with players, loan them out repeatedly giving them large contracts before selling them for profit. This would hurt smaller local clubs in the area. I don’t see how this isn’t obvious. With the limits in place this is prevented.
I’m confused, one minute you say you’re trying to want to understand the rationale behind it the next you’re being condescending and saying it’s obviously money....
Well that’s just it, the fans aren’t getting what they want. This thread tells you that. Like I said nobody wants to see a Manchester Derby 200 times a season. Not even people living in China.
Not sure what your point is in regards to the pre season tournaments. I know it benefits bigger clubs (English and European) my point is it is pointless for other clubs. Have a look at the attendances for the games involving Wolves, Newcastle etc In the Premier League Asia trophy.
Grounds half empty and sometimes 3/4 empty. The likes of Palace and Burnley won’t make even a fraction of what United and co make from these tours.
The emirates cup is a pre season tournament... Arsenal fans don’t care about it. The same way United fans don’t care about pre season friendlies..
Has their ever been a better real life example of a Faustian pact? The other clubs would be absolutely mental to sign off on this. EFL clubs are also bonkers if they think they are keeping the 25% for anything longer than a decade when six clubs can vote and feck it off at any point.
This is an absolute stitch up of epic proportions. I mean lets look at the key players; Henry, Parry and the Glaziers. I mean seriously who in their right mind is thinking, that those feckers will look after them once they get the voting powers. It is like saying to Stalin, just before he got absolute power, 'remember you're a man of the people, don't forget about us'.
This is an absolute stitch up of epic proportions. I mean lets look at the key players; Henry, Parry and the Glaziers. I mean seriously who in their right mind is thinking, that those feckers will look after them once they get the voting powers. It is like saying to Stalin, just before he got absolute power, 'remember you're a man of the people, don't forget about us'.
If I was still watching, this would make me stop. Despairing stuff.
Not really, United have always been massively supported. We've always had the most fans. Even in the 70's when we we're in the second division. My Dad told me we used to take over whole grounds and towns.
No it doesn't.
The championship sides would actually have a chance of winning the whole thing as they're allowed to play their full strength squad.
This will also allow young players in the premier league who aren't out on loan to actually play competitive football against men instead of just kids in the under 21s league.
I do like the idea of an all or nothing relegation playoff
not in the sense of being well supported but in bring successful when the really big money arrived to really fill the bank, it got to a point where they only real way a club could compete long term is with massive ownership investmentNot really, United have always been massively supported. We've always had the most fans. Even in the 70's when we we're in the second division. My Dad told me we used to take over whole grounds and towns.
Here in India, absolutely true. If clubs are allowed to negotiate their own tv deal here (consisting both home and away pl matches), pretty sure 95 percent of the money would go to big 6. I am pretty sure this will be similar in other markets. Clubs like Leicester would probably get a good tv deal from their owner's home nation though.
I suggest you go to the Man Utd U23s and U18s squad pages and count how many local lads are there. How are the current rules stopping us from hovering all the top talent? Have you even followed our youth transfers this summer?
I'm trying to understand the negotiation and bargaining that is happening behind the scenes. I try to paint the bigger picture (pun intended) of what's going to happen. If they've decided to let this get to the public, it was on purpose.
Well, that's what you say but the clubs apparently disagree and I'm inclined to believe their financial departments more than one guy on the redcafe. Whether you understand or like it doesn't matter one bit. Clubs make revenues from such overseas games and a lot more than they do from the League Cup which is with distributed revenues model. If the FA and EFL agree to let the clubs keep 100% of revenues from the League Cup, trust me, clubs will take that deal. But that won't happen.
A big part of the income from those games is fixed and has nothing to do with the stadium crowds. It has a lot to do with local sponsors and exposure. Trust me, if they weren't profitable, clubs wouldn't be doing them.
You keep missing the point. You may not care, your mates may not care. The club, however, does care because, obviously, these tournaments bring revenues.
If I look up 'entitled Man Utd fan' in the dictionary it brings up this quote. What a disgrace.
It is an absolutely repulsive post.
"Project Big Picture" is nothing more than a cynical power grab and should be treated with the disdain it deserves - no surprise the first two EFL clubs to support it were the vanity projects at Fleetwood and Forest Green.
I'm disgusted that United are involved in this, albeit not surprised with the disgusting creatures at the top of the club. To be completely honest I'm more surprised in Liverpool, I genuinely thought they got football in this country - apparently not.
if they really wanted to keep this a bit more competitive they would be more of a split, say 60% to the prem, 17.5% to the championship, 12.5% to league one and 10% to league 2 of all money brought in, just rough numbers, the 60% gets split between the prem equally and then the higher you finish in the league you get less prize money, every club would have 10 years to get debt free and live in the black, with the amount of money in football no clubs should be running in debt.
I agree with you, it's a root & branch plan to change the game for the good. My own entry a few moments ago mentions only allowing 18 or 20 teams in an EFL & ask Celtic & Rangers to join the new 6th or 7th (the lowest EFL division when this has been ratified) division.
Its the transparency of the power grab that astounds me.
Are they so blinded by their own greed that they think all other Premier League clubs will want this? Maybe I'm missing something here but if the top 6 clubs control the voting the majority of clubs have no say.
These are really bad times to be making long term changes to the structure of football. There are clubs going to the wall right now and for the top clubs to be sticking their noses further into the trough is just sickening.
Are they so blinded by their own greed that they think all other Premier League clubs will want this? Maybe I'm missing something here but if the top 6 clubs control the voting the majority of clubs have no say.
These are really bad times to be making long term changes to the structure of football. There are clubs going to the wall right now and for the top clubs to be sticking their noses further into the trough is just sickening.
This is embarrassing for the club to be associated with. The arrogance of any club thinking they should be able to change the entire structure of the game to suit them is mind boggling.
Offering to help the EFL doesn't blind anyone to the fact we're trying to give ourselves and the other elite clubs total power and control over the entire football pyramid.
Money from the top should absolutely be diluted down to the clubs at the bottom who are bordering on Administration. You can do that without changing the competition structure and certainly without telling other clubs "You'll have no say anymore" in all votes and decisions. Only the FA the Premier League or the Government should be able to suggest financial changes and no one should ever introduce a voting structure that excludes teams.
Offering to help the EFL doesn't blind anyone to the fact we're trying to give ourselves and the other elite clubs total power and control over the entire football pyramid.
Money from the top should absolutely be diluted down to the clubs at the bottom who are bordering on Administration. You can do that without changing the competition structure and certainly without telling other clubs "You'll have no say anymore" in all votes and decisions. Only the FA the Premier League or the Government should be able to suggest financial changes and no one should ever introduce a voting structure that excludes teams.
The headline proposals such as EFL bailout, greater distribution of TV revenues through the pyramid, less domestic games and capped away ticket prices seem positive on the face of it.
I think a lot of the reactions seen in the media are people dismissing it out of hand because it’s come from the top clubs and automatically assumed to be unfavourable for the rest. Would be interested to see a more informed debate on it.
Under the surface of the positive proposals I suppose the devil in the detail is that there would be a power shift away from the Premier League towards the big clubs. Space created in the calendar could be used by the top clubs for increased European competition or friendly international tournaments for their own commercial gain. Voting rights sitting with the big clubs could lead to less desirable changes in the future for supporters and the pyramid on TV rights etc.
I think a lot of the reactions seen in the media are people dismissing it out of hand because it’s come from the top clubs and automatically assumed to be unfavourable for the rest. Would be interested to see a more informed debate on it.
Under the surface of the positive proposals I suppose the devil in the detail is that there would be a power shift away from the Premier League towards the big clubs. Space created in the calendar could be used by the top clubs for increased European competition or friendly international tournaments for their own commercial gain. Voting rights sitting with the big clubs could lead to less desirable changes in the future for supporters and the pyramid on TV rights etc.
This is a disgrace. I have been a United fan from 1967. I will stop supporting and watching the PL if this happens. Yes I am just one person. It also could be the making off another club if the match going fans shift their loyalty to another clubs not in this big 6.
These proposals are all a bit crazy. It’s so transparent that they’re dangling little financial incentives in order to gain overall control of the entire fecking thing.
Got a feeling that this was the Americans’ end game all along. Buy the biggest two clubs and then transform the whole of English football to a self-serving money machine, squeezing every last dollar out they can. Or maybe I’m just being cynical...
Got a feeling that this was the Americans’ end game all along. Buy the biggest two clubs and then transform the whole of English football to a self-serving money machine, squeezing every last dollar out they can. Or maybe I’m just being cynical...
Hardly any of the Bundesliga teams go down in theirs, think ratio is about 2 in last 12 years so would rather keep 3 down, 3 up.
BTW was just thinking, what happened to the apparently imminent CL reforms? That was similar to this about a year ago yet hardly heard anything about it now. Like that I suspect this will blow up quickly.
So it's a huge power grab dressed up as reform and financial support for clubs facing disaster.
Taken straight from the disaster capitalism playbook.
Why not just focus first on supporting the lower league clubs and separating the conversation entirely from any serious reform to the power structure...
The only silver lining is that Liverpool who love to by holier than thou have tarnished themselves by jumping in bed with our inbred pig owners.
Taken straight from the disaster capitalism playbook.
Why not just focus first on supporting the lower league clubs and separating the conversation entirely from any serious reform to the power structure...
The only silver lining is that Liverpool who love to by holier than thou have tarnished themselves by jumping in bed with our inbred pig owners.
Its a disgrace Spurs milking millions from the TV rights because united made hundreds of millions of viewers around the glob. I dont want to give my money to fecking Daniel Levy. I hope the day that every club owns its match TV right and send it to only their fans comes soon. Nobody will be interested in watching Spurs playing against Fulham on craven cottage in a stupid London derby.
I am curious about one thing. The project big picture is nothing but a power grab (the voting rights are laughably bad) from two greedy American owner in the league. But why people think overseas tv rights should be equally shared? Clubs like Brighton don't have many fans and if they are replaced by another club it hardly will make any difference to global audience.
Christ on a bike
How are you even arguing this point, it's like arguing against the sky being blue. The maximum loan rule was LITERALLY brought in on the back of clubs abusing the loan system. The United and Liverpool owners have put forward a poorly disguised power play proposal AND included a proposal of allowing for 15 loans out to domestic clubs at any one time and you're saying this wont make a difference. Seriously, what?
The bigger picture is United/Liverpool and co controlling English football and making money for themselves, not for the clubs but literally for themselves. What will happen is they will gradually make changes as the years progress to the point where they control everything and by dangling these figures in front of EFL clubs they feel it will help smooth the deal over. If I was a piece of shit like Joel Glazer and John Henry, my move would be to reduce the amount of games played against lesser clubs and increase the amount of 'heavyweight fixtures until the point of creating a super league. What the cnuts fail to take into account is that the quality and attraction of the PL will decline if this happened. I can not think there are many fans out there that want or will fork out money to see season after season of the top six clubs playing each other 20 times a season in various countries. And I know you've emphasised a few times that fans don't matter its all about money but the money ultimately comes from the fans and if the fans reject the product the money doesn't roll in.
Again, I'm not sure what you're arguing against here, clearly it benefits the likes of United more, i'm not saying it doesn't but it doesn't for the smaller clubs hence why they very rarely do these tours. How often do you see clubs outside the top six trotting out in China? USA? etc. Unless it's for the Premier League Asia trophy which is a fixed deal. Again this is like arguing against the sky being blue. Clubs outside the top six will never ever make as much from these tours as the clubs inside it. It is of very little benefit to them and is why you don't see them making long haul trips summer after summer, it just doesn't happen.
So what will you do when all the other clubs go bust and you have no one to play against?