huh? lost me here man
United set to revamp scouting network
- Thread starter KM
- Start date
Great news, good to read that the club is moving forward. I do wonder if this revamp will include a DoF.
I suppose that's true. There were times when I felt SAF was content with the system he had in place. I don't like the thought that it was solely his and Gill's collective fault though, because I felt Woodward was in the wrong too. I did some snooping around and found a couple of old articles which partially explain the circumstances in which Woodward and Moyes had to take over. Obviously, I can't comment for the legitimacy of these articles, but if what is being suggested in them are true, it would mean that Moyes had already undertaken the revamping process, which leaves me a little confused. Does that mean even Moyes's structural changes were deemed as dated by the club or is it still very much a SAF thing ?
Moyes overhauls United scouting system ahead of summer splurge
David Moyes will use an all-new scouting system to ensure United are up to speed with the worldwide market.
With the Reds’ owners, the Glazer family, backing Moyes to deliver next season, they are calm and ready to provide him with the funds to rebuild.
And the Old Trafford manager will use a new, upgraded player database at United’s Carrington training complex.
When he was boss at Everton, Moyes created a bunker-style room at the club’s Finch Farm training ground packed with technology and information on players.
The detailed research and knowledge enabled Moyes to build clear pictures of the kind of target he was chasing and who would be monitored ready for serious consideration in the future.
It is understood that when he arrived at United, his predecessor Sir Alex Ferguson’s system and research wasn’t as detailed and the key information was allegedly in chief scout Jim Lawlor’s head rather than an easily accessible database for the backroom staff.
While the system suited Ferguson, it left Moyes playing catch-up when he officially took over at United last July.
His desire to have all bases covered and targets monitored led to a shambolic summer transfer window that yielded only Marouane Fellaini.
But Moyes has updated United’s system and now has instant, thorough access to players.
The Reds want to do their transfer work before the World Cup and will be scouring the Bundesliga and La Liga markets closest.
- 08:02, 27 FEB 2014
- UPDATED 09:04, 27 FEB 2014
- BY STUART MATHIESON
David Moyes will use an all-new scouting system to ensure United are up to speed with the worldwide market.
With the Reds’ owners, the Glazer family, backing Moyes to deliver next season, they are calm and ready to provide him with the funds to rebuild.
And the Old Trafford manager will use a new, upgraded player database at United’s Carrington training complex.
When he was boss at Everton, Moyes created a bunker-style room at the club’s Finch Farm training ground packed with technology and information on players.
The detailed research and knowledge enabled Moyes to build clear pictures of the kind of target he was chasing and who would be monitored ready for serious consideration in the future.
It is understood that when he arrived at United, his predecessor Sir Alex Ferguson’s system and research wasn’t as detailed and the key information was allegedly in chief scout Jim Lawlor’s head rather than an easily accessible database for the backroom staff.
While the system suited Ferguson, it left Moyes playing catch-up when he officially took over at United last July.
His desire to have all bases covered and targets monitored led to a shambolic summer transfer window that yielded only Marouane Fellaini.
But Moyes has updated United’s system and now has instant, thorough access to players.
The Reds want to do their transfer work before the World Cup and will be scouring the Bundesliga and La Liga markets closest.
JB suggested that proposals for revamping have been in place for a while now, so what you said might be true, in that, Woody wanted to see if the system worked or not before really making any wholesale changes. It would also take time identify who to hire and fire and what areas to prioritize on etc.
Badly needed. Chicharito could be seen as the only relatively unknown talent that we have found in recent years.
Don't think this is anything but wanting to make sure we have the best possible chance to recruit top talents from around the world.
Can't see anything negative about this but some can't help but bash the club regardless.
sure that's the intention which they are selling to people. if you can sell people on that, you don't really have to follow up with those results. you can get by doing the bare minimum because people are already sold on what you said you are going to do.
So we have little interest in improving?
Sounds good though regarding youth scouting we did identify and get talent in the past as well (recently Januzaj, Pereira and yeah the one who now plays for Juve).
Still I would be interested if we have been behind indeed in this regard? Clubs with limited resources are more familiar with identifying hidden gems. But what about big / rich clubs in England and Europe? Have they really discovered more top talent than us in the last few years?
Still I would be interested if we have been behind indeed in this regard? Clubs with limited resources are more familiar with identifying hidden gems. But what about big / rich clubs in England and Europe? Have they really discovered more top talent than us in the last few years?
People are idiots here. Clubs revamps the scouting system, so the obvious conclusion is that they must be doing this for marketing purposes.
Hang on, isn't it "the next Messi"?No.All we need to find the new Messi.
Excellent news, we've been signing a few U18 players recently and this will only help. Clubs been taking a few steps in the right direction.
I like it. This is exactly what we have cried out for, better management structure and more talent running the club and making decisions.
lololololololol
You can have interest in improving without actually improving that much. Time will tell if we actually do but from what I've read above it's not really giving me much. If it's enough for you then fair dos. Just giving my view on how it comes across as more marketing speak than actual, fundamental, long-term change which will yield in better results. One thing saying it, whole 'nother beast doing
What's with "enough for you"?
The club is clearly wanting to improve both with the academy and get a better scouting system in place and for the life of me I don't understand how you can take that as a marketing stunt? Life as a Man Utd supporter must be really hard for some
I'm laughing that you think life as a Man United supporter is hard for me. It's been quite calm actually. And it's just my interpretation regarding the marketing thing. Nothing more. Alot of that has to do with the fact we've been here before and because at the top of the hierarchal structure we have guys who don't really care about improving United for United's sake.What's with "enough for you"?
The club is clearly wanting to improve both with the academy and get a better scouting system in place and for the life of me I don't understand how you can take that as a marketing stunt? Life as a Man Utd supporter must be really hard for some
All you've done to me is regurgitate what's been said in the article because as a fan you want to believe that's what they want to do whether they actually thoroughly follow through or not. I'll wait.
Lol, these suggestions that it's all a marketing gimmick.
As we don't have any inside info what are we supposed to do though? Take every positive article as a marketing stunt?
nah you can just analyze and ask questions. I've said my view numerous times now so I think you get it but I don't take every positive article as marketing stunt. This one gave me that impression. Nothing more yo
Was Mendes that popular in player agency world before Ronaldo world record transfer? Nowadays he is a super star agent, but before that transfer I myself didn't know much about him. Did that transfer make him or did he to a new level with it?
I get it but fair enough, we can't all agree.
i come into any discussion knowing i likely won't agree with the other person. for me it's important we understand each other rather than that "agree to disagree" malarkey
Yes, the club would be using only Charles Sale of Daily Mail as a marketing tool and no other newspaper for this particular news. Poor marketing from United's team if that's the case.
I do get it.
Attracting top tier talents from other youth academies is more a matter of negotiating rather than scouting.
Should a Brexit happen, scouting at very young ages in the UK will be more important than ever.
cool. sorry probably went overboard there
Well i mean papers do tend to be used in this way.
I don't think that it's a marketing stunt because from what I see, we are changing the club structure. I suspect that we are going to follow some of the continental organizations like Porto, Atletico or Sporting CP with more scouts and more administrative personal where everyone is highly specialized.
I know that it's not accurate but in terms of scouting if you compare Arsenal numbers and a club like Sporting CP, Arsenal have 2 scouts in London and claim to have few worldwide while Sporting have 150 scouts, now Sporting are an extreme most big clubs have 20 or more scouts.
Sure though we know little in terms of the competence of this scouting structure or the "changing of the club structure" you're talking about. I think if we get Berta from Atletico as a DOF that would be an interesting and potentially positive change to the club but there's still a fair amount of assumptions there which is more or less what I'm getting at. I think as fans we make positive assumptions because we want to see the best for our club whether or not that's actually going to pan out. Hope's a bitch sometimes.
You are making positive or negative assumptions, I'm not rating the potential changes but only acknowledging that the club is restructuring, we will only judge the changes in due time.
Hm i'm not sure how things will go which pretty much outlines my views in this thread. My initial impression was it reeks of marketing talk and I haven't seen anything to stray from that viewpoint. If you find that negative then so be it. You are entitled to that.
As I've thread to @Red Katie I've given my impression and nothing more. Can't really judge based on an article.
If they wanted to use something as a marketing tool to get the fans onside you'd think a large marketing team could do a lot better than leaking a story to 1 paper about changes to the scouting team. That's apart from the fact that they've already actually started hiring the scouts. The idea on here that any negative story about United must be true while any positive 1 is dismissed or must be a plant by the club to make themselves look good has reached bizarre levels.
The bottom line is that the scouting / youth structure has to be set up to as much retain talent as it is to find it. My feeling as that we seemed to have struggled to keep rather than find players these last few years.
I suspect there's always been change with scouting, maybe this is more co-ordinated. Maybe it's just got a heading and a press release - either way it's good the club is appearing to make positive moves. Let's hope it actually is!
My Dad retired from scouting at United in January, he'd scouted so long that I'm not sure there's even definitive evidence of how long, earlier than 1963 for sure. He's seen an awful lot of change and as any true football scout, he's never said a word! Who knows. The world of being a football scout appears to have been like being an MI5 spy, only a bit more secretive!
I suspect there's always been change with scouting, maybe this is more co-ordinated. Maybe it's just got a heading and a press release - either way it's good the club is appearing to make positive moves. Let's hope it actually is!
My Dad retired from scouting at United in January, he'd scouted so long that I'm not sure there's even definitive evidence of how long, earlier than 1963 for sure. He's seen an awful lot of change and as any true football scout, he's never said a word! Who knows. The world of being a football scout appears to have been like being an MI5 spy, only a bit more secretive!
The problem is that you label it as a marketing stunt and at the same time say that you can't judge based on the article. You have to see the problem, right?
The club are really doing what they are saying, they are hiring scouts and they are bringing administrative personal, the only missing piece seems to be Berta, if Berta is confirmed then the club will have done everything they said.
I'm saying I can't judge what it really means because i view it as a marketing stunt therefore i find it vacuous.
Okay so we're getting scouts. yay. If anything it shows how much catch up we are trying to do post-Fergie. I wouldn't say Berta is the only missing piece. I think that's quite simplistic. It does seem we are trying to take a stab at moving in a different direction. Marketing stunt doesn't mean you don't do anything. My point is I think we're overselling it.
You missed a trick there bud, you could have become an ITK twitter sensation
Sadly what you said is true. This thread has been littered with some of your posts which were completely overlooked and this article is not even the first time I have heard of this. When the Butt appointment was made as well, there were plenty of articles that were suggesting we were revamping many structures of the club. I'm usually a pessimist myself, but even for me this style of thinking is very disappointing.
United not only need to revamp their scouting network, they need to set prioritys like they used to, getting players that are realistic, not the BS of neymar, ageing ronaldo etc etc. Martial proved while spending a bit too much, finding the right talent is the greater reward, than mercenary's like di maria
We've brought in Tommy Moller Nielsen as a senior scout
Son of the guy who managed Denmark when we won the euros in '92. Anyway, I thought he was mainly a coach but I guess he's here to cover Denmark and possibly the rest of Scandinavia.