Obviously a response to the internal enquires/evaluations reported after Van Gaal came in.
United set to revamp scouting network
- Thread starter KM
- Start date
Whilst I have some sympathies, surely there are players he fancied that he could have bought?
Fantastic news if true.
Erm, so you are suggesting that, one of the greatest legends in the club and possibly the game, who was always a huge advocate of modernizing the game of football decided that the club he took care of for over 25 years was suddenly not so important to him anymore and that he rather ensure that an archaic/dated way of an organizational system already in place was absolutely fine and was the best birthday gift to give to Ryan Giggs when/if he becomes manager ?
Do you realize just how many contradictions and counter-contradictions are there in that very hypothetical you are proposing and yet you are saying it makes sense ? The whole power struggle angle has been used to endless means on the forum, but this one takes the cake.
So let's run it up the flagpole and see who salutes it.
Not try to start a lengthy discussion here on only hypothetical thought. However, SAF is a genius and he worked wonder in his own way. I can't see another team win the league with basically one anchor midfielder like Carrick with filler partner. And he ran this kind of midfield model for couple years. This is only one example to demonstrate the genius of SAF. SAF does what he sees as fit, and he's known for being stubborn. As a genius, there is blind sight in his way that he might not notice his own genius can't be transferred. And his method is way above and different than most other clubs run. Giggs may have his own belief that he knows what how to run thing as SAF used to do. Who knows?
Thing is I do not want to derail the thread with this topic. Have no idea why it took almost 3 years to just to get started on changing how the scouting and academy runs.
Think that's an indication of a DoF being brought in this summer.
Sounds good to me..
Indeed but it seems odd that they announced this now, and appear to be starting the process without him having arrived. Surely this is exactly what Berta or whoever is being brought in to do? We are looking for such a figure because we lack the experience in these systems.
Possibly he is advising on matters from afar though... or maybe Woodward was given a copy of Football Manager for Christmas and is now reevaluating his entire approach towards running the club. If so, expect us to sign Cherno Samba, Kim Kallstrom and Fabio Paim on July 1st.
Or players he could have looked into during that 4 week holiday of his. Contrast that with Mourinho who would working on his transfer targets even before getting confirmed.
The planning for this started over a year ago while Mourinho was still at Chelsea and Berta is still at Atletico so it has nothing to do with him either
He actually didn't. He tried to bring in a few players from the academy and outside who he hoped would fill the void. The fact it didn't work out is another story. And tonnes of teams wins the league with just the one anchor role. Every 4-3-3 system operates that way, so I don't know what you are implying.
I agree he's stubborn, but he always did what was best for the club. When he knew a player's time was up, he moved them on. When he felt a system was not working so well, he modified it. He was one of the first to make use of the Sports science thingy. He promoted Rene Meulensteen who we all know pretty much re-invented training sessions and modules which ended up being copied everywhere. So to think, that he might have missed the fact the scouting system was dated seems very far fetched. Either he realized it was and hoped Woodward/Moyes could overhaul it or felt it was fine the way it was. I personally think it is the first, but arguments can be made for the second as well.
Also why would he oppose the upgrading our scouting system if he wanted Giggs to take charge ? If anything, he would have wanted Giggs to have the best possible environment to start his career off with. Nobody is really sure, what shape the scouting system was in when Moyes took charge. I don't really remember reading any articles that suggested he revamped the scouting or was in the process of doing so. van Gaal also has not touched the scouting in place as evidenced by the acquisitions we made during his time here imo.
I just really don't buy into the SAF using his political influence to prevent United from actually improving a crucial aspect of the club. That just doesn't make sense. His reasons for standing behind Giggs and opposing Mourinho are well known and to true followers of SAF, even borderline acceptable. But there is no way he would jeopardise the state of the club in order to execute his wishes. The club means more to him than Ryan Fecking Giggs.
Sign all the Belgium talent.
Do you have any ideas as to what exactly the changes are ? Apart from personnel ? Are they going to just modify the administrative side of it or will this include hiring and firings and possibly some tie-ups ?
True but given the rumours we've been looking at this for a while, its not surprising to see us making the moves now. Whoever the DoF is to be (if at all) would most probably have provided a "preferred structure" to Woodward in order to move forward. If its Berta (and I would think it is) then this makes sense.
I meant Carrick were one man midfield for like SAF last 2 years while his partner was non exist. SAF famous no value in the market. I never see any other teams do this kind of tactic. I meant we got midfield overrun with Carrick doing all the work and somehow still competed and won the league.
I am not saying SAF wanted to stop us improving. SAF has his own genius vision, but he didn't realize not many/ any at all(?) can run the club this size the way he did. Everyone has their own perspective, it doesn't mean our scouting system was outdated in SAF perspective, especially with his brother's help. His brother is not Moyes brother so it might get little awkward there. We might only notice we should move to a more orthodox approach recently. The plan has been LVG to build foundation for Giggs in case his 3 years went as plan. Now SHTF, and plan changes, so the board might just want to try a new approach... We don't know. Please let this case rest here.
Where do you get the info that we planned this a year ago?
I would if you got your facts straight and at least reasonably accurate.
Spewing ridiculous theories is part of the Caf's favourite past-times, but it does annoy me to what extent people are willing to believe SAF was a power hungry ego maniac so much so that he would bring the club to disrepute just to satiate his own ego. He doesn't deserve such treatment.
With that I will let this rest.
And btw, JB is our inside man (not literally). He knows more about the club than you and me combined times a million.
They haven't announced this. This is reported by Charles Sale of Daily Mail.
His brother was a great asset, he was close to all the agents, all the continental executives and he had a good eye for players. He was SAF's representant on the continent.
I really don't know what is your problem. I said Moyes is not Mr Ferguson's brother, so the scouting system SAF had, would not work with Moyes. And here exactly it did: SAF trusted chief scout retired. So Moyes swam this alone with SAF' gig which is used to run by his genius. It would take another genius and another similar relationship, trust and ability similar to one between Mr Ferguson and SAF to make it work!!! What is you on about?
Please rest this case.
Ah. That'll be my first mistake then.
As a general rule, I don't click on links with the Mail/Sun/Mirror etc in them. I thought reading through the comments here that there had been some announcement.
You use Genius way too many times, hope you know that:
Quite frankly, I don't even understand many of the things you are saying. I really don't follow what you mean by "I said Moyes is not Mr Ferguson's brother, so the scouting system SAF had, would not work with Moyes. And here exactly it did: SAF trusted chief scout retired. So Moyes swam this alone with SAF' gig which is used to run by his genius.". Are you implying that SAF's scouting system should not have have worked under Moyes, but yet it did ? Because that's what your post seems to suggest.
No. The other way around. SAF's system only works for him and noone else. And this is SAF way, which unlikely to work for any former players turning into managers because it requires SAF's own geniusYou use Genius way too many times, hope you know that:
Quite frankly, I don't even understand many of the things you are saying. I really don't follow what you mean by "I said Moyes is not Mr Ferguson's brother, so the scouting system SAF had, would not work with Moyes. And here exactly it did: SAF trusted chief scout retired. So Moyes swam this alone with SAF' gig which is used to run by his genius.". Are you implying that SAF's scouting system should not have have worked under Moyes, but yet it did ? Because that's what your post seems to suggest.
So this revamping scouting system has been planned before the rumor of Berta or after? I'm confused on that part.
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I think everyone wants a unearth a gem, a true bargain.
But there was something Wenger said that pretty much tells the story of most big clubs. Just paraphrasing, " How do you think our fans will react if I buy a player for my starting 11 for half a million pounds from French second division. " And that pretty much summed it up.
There is no doubt we want to see Mahrez kind of talent being found by our scouts. Just look at Alli's case. We played against him, we knew how good he was and still we decided to pass the opportunity.
There is no point hiring 50 scouts if all you want to buy are players with a reputation. I'd much rather send scouts to lower age group games and sign the youngsters at 16-18 age bracket like we did with Januzaj, Pereira, TFM
But there was something Wenger said that pretty much tells the story of most big clubs. Just paraphrasing, " How do you think our fans will react if I buy a player for my starting 11 for half a million pounds from French second division. " And that pretty much summed it up.
There is no doubt we want to see Mahrez kind of talent being found by our scouts. Just look at Alli's case. We played against him, we knew how good he was and still we decided to pass the opportunity.
There is no point hiring 50 scouts if all you want to buy are players with a reputation. I'd much rather send scouts to lower age group games and sign the youngsters at 16-18 age bracket like we did with Januzaj, Pereira, TFM
I heard about it a long time ago and told @KM about it months ago
Not sure about tie ups but there has been some hiring and firing done at all levels of the club and a lot more hiring to come from what I've heard. It seems we'll be bringing in a lot more staff on the administrative side to allow more specialised roles with Nick Cox coming in alongside Nicky Butt to handle the administrative side of the academy directors role. Mike Glennie who worked with the much younger age groups and spotted a lot of the lads who are getting into the first team now has retired as well so will need replacing which seems to be where the stories that Derek Langley was leaving came from.
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How are Barca, Madrid, and Bayern still the best teams in the world. Is it because they 'tapped' these 'hidden gems' in these obscure places like amazon jungle?
Or just pay more attentions to highly rated players that many have known about??
Or just pay more attentions to highly rated players that many have known about??
Nothing really detailed about what they're actually going to do. I look at it and say "okay and?" It reads as something meant for me to buy into it more than actually believe it will actually accomplish something substantial.
I don't know anything about Nick Cox, but heard a lot of good things about Glennie. Shame he is resigning. It's really vital that they get in someone of the same calibre for those lower age groups.
Thanks JB
Can confirm.
No problemI don't know anything about Nick Cox, but heard a lot of good things about Glennie. Shame he is resigning. It's really vital that they get in someone of the same calibre for those lower age groups.
Thanks JB
Lol, you and your love for that word. What you said maybe true, but imo SAF's system did constantly keep changing internally, though it might not have been obvious to us. Anyways, this wasn't the point, I only had issue with you suggesting SAF was the one responsible for delaying this structural change. I could never envisage him doing that. Even for Giggs, he wouldn't go to such lengths. The guy probably doesn't even attend half the board meetings I reckon, always spotted at Golf Tourney's, Charity Events, Management Classes etc.No. The other way around. SAF's system only works for him and noone else. And this is SAF way, which unlikely to work for any former players turning into managers because it requires SAF's own genius
So this revamping scouting system has been planned before the rumor of Berta or after? I'm confused on that part.
Why, I oughta....Lols
But this isn't all new info though and it's been talked about for a while.
And what's the point in just talking about it but not actually following through? Nothing to gain from that.
Good. Never understood why we haven't had a huge scouting network. Porto and Benfica have reaped the rewards for donkeys years.
If you look at the briefings from the club since Woodward has been here, you'd realize there is something to gain from not following through. Especially when you have brand loyalty
I think the club as a whole club was guilty on ignoring problems due to on field success being sustained. From SAF to Gill, and not just SAF's brother. No offense, but I find blaming him a tad convenient. Sir Alex did move forward with the times but only as much as he had to (and largely restricted to on-the-pitch stuff), to get the job done IMO. Same with Gill. As long as he supported SAF in delivering trophies, things were good. The mistake made, and I bet it's a shared responsibility, is in not taking into account how much of what we put place worked by virtue of "having a good SAF thing going".
I don't mean to absolve Moyes and LVG of course, and I'm not even sure how much of these reports to take as gospel (probably none). But to me this sounds pretty believable given how the club has operated over the last 4-5 years - especially in it's cumbersome nature.
I'm not sure I follow with regards to the timing of this from Ed Woodard's POV? I mean, by all accounts, he was a bit of a fish out of water in his first year, and he's obviously tried to make the existing structure work for the last 1.5 years, and came to the conclusion, sometime back I should add, that some major changes are required. But these changes obviously don't happen overnight. A lot of analysis and audit goes into figuring out what the actual picture, what has to be done about and how.
40 new appointments isn't nothing. The fans moan about everything these days.
Very positive news, I've always thought we should be rivalling any club on recruitment efficiency; but I don't really have too much of an idea how clubs are run. Nice to see there is significant investment happening in this space.