Uno Draft: Round 1 - Edgar Allan Pillow vs Skizzo

Who will win the match based on all the players at their peaks?


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Enigma_87

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...................................TEAM Edgar Allan Pillow............................................................ TEAM Skizzo


TACTICS TEAM Edgar Allan Pillow

Formation: Narrow 4-4-2 / 4-5-1 hybrid

A balanced tactics that enables versatility through the middle and out wide and strength in numbers in both phases of the game.

Defence:

Peter Shilton of the best goalies of all time mans the goal. Sandro and Sagnol are top of the line balanced full backs who are defensively astute and able to man the flank and provide the necessary with on their own. Both possess high workrate and good crossing ability. Santamaria and Koulibaly are the mainstays in central defence. A good mix of strength, tenacity and ability on the ball. Both are complete well rounded defenders, good in the ground and air.

Midfield:

Scholes-Vieira is a classic central midfield pairing reminiscent of Scholes/Keane partnership. Scholes genius passing along with Vieira's steel make for a complete duo able to run games. Iniesta and Nedved play as wide playmakers rather than wingers. Rather than hugging the touchline, they will operate slightly infield adding to central midfield presence. Both have enormous workrate and contribute well in defensive phases of the game. With abundance of creativity and workrate, this midfield will be hard to get past and will run the game against any opponent.

Attack:

Bergkamp the "Dream for a striker" slots him to his teak role as free role supporting striker. Operating in the hole, he will enjoy being fed the ball from Iniesta/Nedved and will menace any defence with his ability, creativity and vision. Eto'o one of the exceptions strikers in modern era leads the line. A complete striker, strong, fast, high workrate and versatile, he is a prolific goal scorer. A very unselfish forward, his partnership with Bergkamp will be reminiscent of what he shared successfully with Henry.

Why I'll win:

A versatile team that abundant with creativity.

TACTICS TEAM Skizzo

formation - 4231

In goal is The Great Dane, Peter Schmeichel. Arguably the greatest keeper of all time, depending on who you ask, the legendary shot stopper would look to command his area, as well as put us on the front foot with quick throws forward with his powerful arm to our breaking wingers. His ability to make himself big in one-on-one situations would also help if Eto'o found himself breaking in behind.

The full back spots are taken up by Paolo Maldini and Manfred Kaltz. Kaltz would look to push forward and use his fantastic delivery into the box to create mayhem and chances. Maldini will form one hell of a left flank, as well as be able to track Nedved inside or outside depending on where he tries to go.

Rafa Marquez and Claudio Gentile make up the central defensive partnership. Both tough tackling players, Marquez offers us a chance to build from deeper, while Gentile will hound the attacking players, giving them little time on the ball to settle.

Roy Keane and Fernando Redondo pair up in the midfield and create a dream midfield of the 90's. Both class on the ball, Keane can take the game by the scruff of the neck as needed, and Redondo oozes the class needed to control the game from deeper.

Francisco Gento forms a GOAT level left wing/side with Maldini and Redondo in the spaces behind him, and he'll look to do his thing. Beating his man and giving Sagnol a tough time, and get some deliveries into the box. Zbigniew Boniek will play almost a free role out wide right. With Kaltz offering an outlet outside, Boniek can roam the forward line, breaking in behind, linking with the players around him, and causing havoc.

Socrates will look to find space in between the lines and find the forward players. He'd look to drift around the hole and pass and probe to create openings.

Big John Charles will lead the line, and with link up play with Socrates and Boniek, and service from Gento and Kaltz, I'd back him to bully the defensive partnership of Santamaria and Koulibaly.

Edgar's front 6 is a tasty set up, but with both attacks boasting a similar goal threat in terms of numbers, I fancy our defense to withstand the opposition attack more than vice versa. Gento against Sagnol, and Boniek against Sandro both weigh heavily in our favour, and with Socrates finding space between the lines, Charles against those center backs with quality service will be a good source of goals/goal threat.
 

willhse456

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Love both teams, will Iniesta and Bergkamp clash though? Don't they like to operate in the same areas?
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Good luck @Skizzo

Love both teams, will Iniesta and Bergkamp clash though? Don't they like to operate in the same areas?
Nope. Bergkamp started his career at right wing before peaking as Second Striker. He'll operate in a more advanced role here given both Iniesta and Nedved playmaking from the midfield.

Lots of flair and creativity plus everyone in the middle have high workrate to bring this together.

Bergkamp/Eto'o offer a bit more goal threat than Charles/Socrates imo.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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While I quite enjoy Iniesta as the LW, I would have preferred a runner rather than creator there.

Someone like Overmars who made a living out of Bergamp's passes. Slight exaggeration there, but the point being someone pacy who would be like to be at the end of all the passes from Scholes and Bergkamp would have made more sense.

Skizzo's team is just again one of the luckier ones with the cards (bitter alert). But why is Maldini not starting at CB? Sure it becomes a two stopper setup, but with Redondo, Keane, Kaltz and even Marquez, bringing the ball out is a non issue.

And you had fecking Sammer on the bench? Saving him for the next round I suppose. Make what you will of that, EAP :lol:
 

Skizzo

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Bergkamp/Eto'o offer a bit more goal threat than Charles/Socrates imo.
Like I said in the OP, scoring wise the stats between Charles and Socrates and Eto’o and Bergkamp are very similar. The difference is who they’re up against.

Koulibaly, as good as he is, shouldn’t be here. Santamaria has been in plenty of discussions here about how he performs defensively and how many high scoring games he was a part of.

On top of that though, Vieira always had a more defensive minded midfielder next to him, and Scholes, while decent defensively, is a tragically bad tackler and would rather someone more defensive alongside him. I don’t think either would particularly enjoy trying to close the space for Socrates, and Charles will bully the centerbacks.

That hasn’t even touched on the glaring mismatch of Boniek vs Sandro, and Gento vs Sagnol. Our service is facing a weaker defensive side, and that’s what will make the difference.
 

Skizzo

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Skizzo's team is just again one of the luckier ones with the cards (bitter alert). But why is Maldini not starting at CB? Sure it becomes a two stopper setup, but with Redondo, Keane, Kaltz and even Marquez, bringing the ball out is a non issue.
Mostly because with Nedved out wide, I wanted Maldini to be able to tuck in or defend wide comfortably, shutting that outlet down much more clearly.

He also has the ability to tuck in there if Marquez steps forward from the back to look for a forward pass/play.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Mostly because with Nedved out wide, I wanted Maldini to be able to tuck in or defend wide comfortably, shutting that outlet down much more clearly.

He also has the ability to tuck in there if Marquez steps forward from the back to look for a forward pass/play.
I don't buy that. You just wanted to beat him playing Marquez at CB :lol:

Just kidding, doesn't impact my vote much in this game, but probably would have if I felt it was more closer.
 

Skizzo

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I don't buy that. You just wanted to beat him playing Marquez at CB :lol:

Just kidding, doesn't impact my vote much in this game, but probably would have if I felt it was more closer.
As funny as the thought is, my record against Edgar is too important to get cocky :lol:

Part of is is more the fact that I need to play everyone by the second game, should I be fortunate enough to continue.
 

Skizzo

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Roy Keane

He's fecking magic...
"He used to always say, 'If you're ever in trouble, even if I've got men around me, just give me the ball and I'll get you out of trouble.'"

For some, the question about which midfielder was better, Paul Scholes, Steven Gerrard or Frank Lampard, is bound to raise a smile or a shake of the head. The debate is somewhat flawed because Roy Keane was better than the three of them. The Irishman is the best midfielder the Premier League has seen.

He wasn't as gifted as Scholes, as athletic as Gerrard and didn't score as many goals as Lampard. But this trio of Premier League legends couldn't control a game like Keane. None of them had the impact on their teams, or English football, the way Keane had at Manchester United for just over 12 years. He was the most important player for one of the world's biggest clubs during their most successful era.

However, Keane's personality and reputation, the anecdotes and the caricature, have almost overshadowed how he ascended to the peak of the sport and his achievements.

When he was 18, Keane was on the dole in Cork, overlooked by English clubs because of his height and about to sign for Cobh Ramblers in the second tier of Irish football. When he was 28, he was the best and most important player in English football, United's captain, the best-paid player in the Premier League and the best midfielder in the world.

He won seven Premier League titles, four FA Cups and the Champions League (despite missing the final through suspension). He was also named PFA Player of the Year and in the association's Team of the Century. He dragged the Republic of Ireland to the 2002 World Cup and United to the 1999 Champions League final.

Yet, any mention of Roy Keane the footballer is likely to be met with references to his tunnel dispute with Patrick Vieira, or his horror tackle on Alf-Inge Haaland, or how he put the fear of god into his teammates and the opposition. Keane's passing ability is rarely mentioned, and that is almost criminal.

In addition to his fierce intelligence, his limitless energy and his exceptional positional sense, the Irishman's passing was world class. Wayne Rooney said Keane was the best passer of the ball he ever played alongside. Rooney played alongside Scholes for nine years at Old Trafford, and with Gerrard and Lampard for 11 years for England, yet just one full season alongside Keane was enough to convince him of his excellence on the ball.

Darren Fletcher said his former captain had the best first touch he ever saw. Fletcher's claim is equally impressive considering the incredible footballers he played alongside and against.

As Rio Ferdinand can attest, Keane passed the ball forward.

Rio Ferdinand said:
"I got the ball and passed to Gary [Neville], who was on my team. In a normal game that was a great ball - pass to your teammate, go up the pitch. And then Keane turned round and just started going,
Rio Ferdinand said:
"Pass the fecking ball forward, take risks, you're not at Leeds or West Ham now, you're at Manchester United!'

"I got home later that day and thought, 'This guy is nuts, how am I going to deal with him on a daily basis?'

"And then I realised that you've got to take chances and that's how I ended up playing my career. Not just passing the simple ball to Gary, but into the strikers to make a difference."
As Gary Neville spoke about in his autobiography, Keane was extremely efficient in possession and expected the ball to be moved quickly.

Gary Neville said:
"There was a time, a match at Coventry, when Keano came storming at me after I’d taken an extra touch to steady myself before getting a cross over. Thrusting his head forward – I honestly thought he was going to butt me – he screamed,'
Gary Neville said:
"'fecking get the ball over!’

"'Can I not take a fecking touch?’

"'Who the hell are you talking to? Get the fecking ball over!’

"It was like having a snarling pitbull in my face. And I’d thought Schmeichel was a hard taskmaster. One extra touch and Keano was slaughtering me."
Keane demanded these standards of others, but he also practised what he preached.

He didn't play Hollywood balls, raking cross-field passes that looked good, but weren't always effective because they gave the opposition time to shift across and stifle out the attack.

Keane's passes were so effective because they broke the lines, and he always played the ball into teammates' feet.

He enabled Scholes to play further forward, brought United's strikers into play and the team sprang into life when he came into possession, with David Beckham and Ryan Giggs running off him and the full-backs pushing on. When Keane was on the ball, United were safe.

He kept it simple, taking one touch to control and another to play a sharp ball to his teammates. He landed the ball at their feet and rarely hit a loose pass.

In the late 1990s, when United were the most thrilling counter-attacking side in Europe, Keane's passing was vital in getting the team up the pitch and into areas where they could hurt the opposition.

He also drove forward from midfield in his early years.

In his first couple of seasons, he played as a traditional box-to-box midfielder who got his fair share of goals.

Gradually he adapted to become more of a controlling presence in midfield, winning the ball and starting attacks rather than running beyond the opposition.

United became more cautious in the early 2000s, switching from a 4-4-2 formation to playing a lone striker, and Keane himself slowed down. After a hip operation in 2002, he could no longer be the driving force from midfield he had been. His intensity dipped a level or two on the pitch and he adapted his game somewhat, but his passing remained impeccable and helped United control games. His influence remained as strong, despite his advancing years.

No touch was wasted, the ball never went sideways or backwards for the sake of it and it was never aimlessly lumped towards a forward's head.

He was precise, efficient and effective. The complete midfield player.


There is absolutely nothing flashy about any of these passes, and they aren't aesthetically eye-catching, but their effectiveness can't be understated and they would have been greatly appreciated by teammates.

Darren Fletcher said:
His touch was immaculate, he had the best first touch. All these things were so underrated in his game,"
Darren Fletcher said:
"Everyone looked at him as this ferocious competitor and box-to-box runner and tackler. That wasn’t false, but, with the ball, he had one of the best first touches and the best pass forward into the attacking half to break the lines of the opposition that I’ve ever seen... Because Roy controlled the midfield, Scholesy was then the one who got forward and got goals and used his technique higher up the pitch.
Keane's ability on the ball has been called "underrated" by Neville, who said his former captain used the ball "astutely."

Gary Neville said:
But perhaps his greatest gift was to create a standard of performance which demanded the very best from his team. You would look at him busting a gut and feel that you’d be betraying him if you didn’t give everything yourself.

Keane's excellent passing contributed to this "standard of performance" that Neville spoke about.

According to Phil Neville the Irishman told him that, "If you're ever in trouble, even if I've got men around me, just give me the ball and I'll get you out of trouble." This is the type of leadership that goes beyond barking at teammates or flying into tackles, or the traditional British and Irish ideals of what constitutes a leader on the pitch.

It could be argued that this image of a leader, which Keane embodied, in part explains why his passing has been underrated by many. People remember him snapping into challenges and screaming at teammates, but the impressive passages of play aren't always recalled. A perfect example of this is Keane's performance against The Netherlands in 2001 when Ireland won 1-0 in Dublin on their way to qualifying for the World Cup.

Everyone in Ireland remembers Keane's crunching tackle on Marc Overmars in the opening minute, seeing it as a defining moment of the game, a marker set down that showed it wouldn't be the Dutch team's day.

Which is was, but Overmars still went on to play well, and Keane's contribution went way beyond that tackle.

The Ireland captain played a massive part in creating Jason McAteer's goal, collecting the ball out wide, he forced his way past Mark van Bommel and drew a tackle from Jaap Stam before laying the ball off to Damien Duff.

Duff then played it out wide to Steve Finnan, who found McAteer to score and set Ireland up for a place at the World Cup.

The goal came about because of Keane driving the team forward, by taking responsibility as he did on countless occasions for United and Ireland. The bigger the game, the better Keane played. He was never rotated or rested by Alex Ferguson for the important matches. He played 79 times in the Champions League and only one appearance was as a substitute. Unlike the rest of United's talented team, Keane was indispensable.

His explosive argument with Ferguson hastened his departure from Old Trafford in November 2005, rather than his declining ability on the field. Keane wasn't the player he had been a few years previously, but he was still capable of dominating a game, as evidenced by his display against Liverpool in January 2005.

United won the game at Anfield 1-0, thanks to Wayne Rooney's goal, and their captain's performance proved pivotal. Olivier Kay, writing in The Times, said Gerrard "was in Keane's shadow throughout", called the Irishman's performance a "masterclass" and a "lesson in how to control midfield." Gerrard was entering the peak years of his career, but the Liverpool captain couldn't get near the 33-year-old Irishman who would be retired within 18-months.

Against one of the best midfielders in the world, after several injuries and a hip-operation, in the winter of his career and at the most hostile ground in Britain for United, Keane ran the game.

Keane's mythical status has grown since he retired, thanks to the anecdotes and autobiographies, and this caricature has arguably overshadowed his ability as a footballer. By always showing for the ball, using it efficiently and effectively, and bringing the best out of his teammates, he led by example. Shouting and screaming, and being excessively demanding of your teammates, will only get you so far. You need to be able to play, and Keane was one of the best.

Underpinning his intensity and drive, his ferocious competitive spirit and his aggression, was a brilliant, intelligent footballer. 12 years after he retired, Keane remains the best midfielder the Premier League has seen.

 

Skizzo

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Can’t type a long post out on my phone waxing lyrical about Redondo, but Sir Alex’s high praise of him, not to mention every manager and set of fans he played for, should show he was an immaculate player.

Here’s his MotM performance against a midfield of Zidane, Davids and Deschamps in the CL final


And his game at Old Trafford with THAT bit of skill

 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Koulibaly, as good as he is, shouldn’t be here. Santamaria has been in plenty of discussions here about how he performs defensively and how many high scoring games he was a part of.
Koulibaly is a good fit for Charles. He may be young, but there is no doubting his skills.

Bergkamp will be the difference maker operating inbetween the lines. With Iniesta and Nedved your DM duo will be focused ahead of them leaving time and space for Bergkamp to wreak havoc.
 

oneniltothearsenal

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This is much closer than I thought it would be. Despite Pillow's complaints his side looks much more complete than it could have and a few things about Skizzo's side feel off.

I strongly dislike Charles with Socrates. The Doctor can make it work because he is a genius but really the wrong type of CF here - too inconsistent and heavy with his first touch. Pillow has a big advantage here with Eto'o who I can see causing a lot of problems for Marquez.
 

Skizzo

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Koulibaly is a good fit for Charles. He may be young, but there is no doubting his skills.

Bergkamp will be the difference maker operating inbetween the lines. With Iniesta and Nedved your DM duo will be focused ahead of them leaving time and space for Bergkamp to wreak havoc.
If my midfield is focusing on your wingers, Marquez or Gentile can step out to Bergkamp and Maldini can pinch inside.

And no amount of snake oil is going to persuade me your defense stops my attack, no matter how many times you ignore Gento and Boniek vs Sagnol and Sandro :p
 

Skizzo

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This is much closer than I thought it would be. Despite Pillow's complaints his side looks much more complete than it could have and a few things about Skizzo's side feel off.
A balancing act somewhat of getting some players into the game so the requirement of playing everyone is met.

I strongly dislike Charles with Socrates. The Doctor can make it work because he is a genius but really the wrong type of CF here - too inconsistent and heavy with his first touch. Pillow has a big advantage here with Eto'o who I can see causing a lot of problems for Marquez.
Charles wasnt a big lumbering forward, he played some great stuff with Sivori, who I could see replicating with Boniek to a degree. Socrates also would look to be the main creative force around the final third, and Charles offers a good foil in being able to link up, knock balls down, or make runs in behind. He was more well rounded than he seems to be given credit for in general.

 
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oneniltothearsenal

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A balancing act somewhat of getting some players into the game so the requirement of playing everyone is met.



Charles was a big lumbering forward, he played some great stuff with Sivori, who I could see replicating with Boniek to a degree. Socrates also would look to be the main creative force around the final third, and Charles offers a good foil in being able to link up, knock balls down, or make runs in behind. He was more well rounded than he seems to be given credit for in general.
yeah sorry not buying it on Charles. Everytime someone tries to sell him I go watch 20-30 minutes of video and every time I come away thinking his first touch is way too inconsistent and heavy to be playing real technical football. Personally he is just Serginho on steroids and its not a good combo with Socrates at all.
 

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Pillow has a big advantage here with Eto'o who I can see causing a lot of problems for Marquez.
Just to touch on this too. Schmeichel was a great shot stopper, but he could make himself huge in one on one situations, and was a great all round keeper in dominating his penalty area.


Plus he has the psychological edge over Dennis :p

 

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yeah sorry not buying it on Charles. Everytime someone tries to sell him I go watch 20-30 minutes of video and every time I come away thinking his first touch is way too inconsistent and heavy to be playing real technical football. Personally he is just Serginho on steroids and its not a good combo with Socrates at all.
I’m not painting him as a silky player with a fantastic touch a la Bergkamp ;) His game is to put the ball in the net, which against Koulibaly he can. The fact he played with technically astute players like Sivori means he isn’t out of his depth with the ball on the ground. That’s just one route though, and service from Gento and Kaltz means he can be a threat in the air too.
 

oneniltothearsenal

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Just to touch on this too. Schmeichel was a great shot stopper, but he could make himself huge in one on one situations, and was a great all round keeper in dominating his penalty area.

Plus he has the psychological edge over Dennis :p
Yeah but Pillow has Shilton who has the psychological edge over Kaltz and is a great matchup vs. Charles.

And feck me that's too much defending Pillow's team for one day so I'm out now :wenger:
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Game's done anyway...

Just to touch on this too. Schmeichel was a great shot stopper, but he could make himself huge in one on one situations, and was a great all round keeper in dominating his penalty area.
Bergkamp-Eto'o is similar to his partnership with Henry. Will elevate both of them. Eto's pace, movement and unselfish attitude is exactly what made Henry partnership work. Marquez would find it hard to cope up.

I honestly think Santamaria-Koulibaly is a better and more balanced pairing than Marquez-Gentile.

His game is to put the ball in the net, which against Koulibaly he can.
Physically Koulibaly is a perfect match for for Charles, size speed et al.
 

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Yeah but Pillow has Shilton who has the psychological edge over Kaltz and is a great matchup vs. Charles.

And feck me that's too much defending Pillow's team for one day so I'm out now :wenger:
His keeper having a psychological advantage over my right back is fine by me :p it was more tongue in cheek than anything anyway.

I hope you feel dirty now.
 

Skizzo

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Game's done anyway...

Bergkamp-Eto'o is similar to his partnership with Henry. Will elevate both of them. Eto's pace, movement and unselfish attitude is exactly what made Henry partnership work. Marquez would find it hard to cope up.

I honestly think Santamaria-Koulibaly is a better and more balanced pairing than Marquez-Gentile.

Physically Koulibaly is a perfect match for for Charles, size speed et al.
I agree that they’d work well together, although not on the level of Bergkamp-Henry. Henry was on another level to Eto-o.

Your attack would benefit from wide players to open up space for Bergkamp and Iniesta to operate in their favoured places. As it stands, it makes it much easier for us to collapse space with Keane-Redondo-Gentile-Marquez-Maldini

On the flip side, we’d be able to stretch your defense with our wide players and create spaces for Sócrates and Charles centrally.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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I strongly dislike Charles with Socrates. The Doctor can make it work because he is a genius but really the wrong type of CF here - too inconsistent and heavy with his first touch.
Umm, not sure about that. Charles had better technique than the credit you are giving him.
 

oneniltothearsenal

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Umm, not sure about that. Charles had better technique than the credit you are giving him.
Naw, I've watched most of the available clips and the single match, his first touch was inconsistent and poor by Socrates' standards.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Naw, I've watched most of the available clips and the single match, his first touch was inconsistent and poor by Socrates' standards.
Sure, by Socrates' standard it is, but he was not your typical British CF as well.

Sivori Charles worked like a charm. So no reason this won't IMO.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
Socrates and Bergkamp in starring roles must be porn for @oneniltothearsenal . Who is your favourite of the two, and who do you think was better? I'm sure you've seen this documentary but I'll leave it here anyway:


How the feck does anyone manage to be an elite footballer, a qualified medical doctor, have that degree of acuity and influence about social and political issues, and on top of that be a raging booze hound? An incredible human being.
 

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yeah sorry not buying it on Charles. Everytime someone tries to sell him I go watch 20-30 minutes of video and every time I come away thinking his first touch is way too inconsistent and heavy to be playing real technical football. Personally he is just Serginho on steroids and its not a good combo with Socrates at all.
Out of interest what sort of CF partner would you ideally pair with Socrates?