An excellent description of Van Nistelrooy and showcases what I expect of him.
Uno Draft: Round 1 - Pat_Mustard vs. GodShaveTheQueen
- Thread starter Invictus
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Thanks for commenting. I hope you could unblock me and bury the hatchet. Cheers.
Well, then we will have to completely disagree on Eusebio.
Could one of draft geniuses @Gio or @harms comment on what they think of Eusebio from the left?
And about Irwin, you have to remember I am also facing a strong flank in Waddle and Alves. I shouldn't be playing an uber attacking fullback. Balance is very important.
For me Eusebio and Irwin is a balanced and cracking flank. Sure, I could improve it with Facchetti, but Sjor had other plans.
I don't get it why you think Irwin/ Eusebio wouldn't work as a left flank? Irwin can properly stretch the pitch on both sides, he's two footed as it goes and Eusebio will relish using that inside left channel.
Let's not forget nowadays those with stronger right foot usually occupy the left channel which allows them to cut in and shoot. Personally I can see Eusebio doing just as that if he played in modern times.
Where is my tag?
In a back 5 with wing backs are the only wide players so they have to be attacking imo, they are the main width providers in the system. Its one of the reasons @willhse456 got slated for in his game.
I was told the Caf automatically sends you a notification when you post Draft genius. So didn't tag again
No, that is not the reason. He got slated because Nilton is not a width provider and Thuram was not even half way close to Irwin attacking wise. He had his odd game here and there but they were more or less terrible choices.
What an uneven game judging teams wise. Think there has been about half a comment on the opposition so far. I'll join back when the discussion is at least a minimal bit even.
I really don't see Irwin as a stretching defence type of player. He'd go good with a traditional winger ahead of him rather than Eusebio. He was in right positions and has great ball distribution skills, but definitely not a wingback.
So he can't do something like the guy in the below gifs is doing without any winger around? Fair enough
The notion that since he played in Man United teams which were predominantly winger based and hence he is not suited to other attacking wing back setups is an odd one really.
How could the manager's tactics put a limit on a player's capabilities? Sure, he can restrict their role in his team, but never their capability and you will always see glimpses like in the above 2 examples which took less than 2-3 minutes to find. Probably can make a tonne more if I had time and energy to browse through.
Irwin for me is every bit as good to play in a 3-4-3, from either side. He not only offers attacking impetus, but the defensive balance for which the likes of Carlos are called out.
If I am to say face Figo and Zanetti in the next game, I'd rather have Irwin than Carlos. Finding the right balance is the key.
How could the manager's tactics put a limit on a player's capabilities? Sure, he can restrict their role in his team, but never their capability and you will always see glimpses like in the above 2 examples which took less than 2-3 minutes to find. Probably can make a tonne more if I had time and energy to browse through.
Irwin for me is every bit as good to play in a 3-4-3, from either side. He not only offers attacking impetus, but the defensive balance for which the likes of Carlos are called out.
If I am to say face Figo and Zanetti in the next game, I'd rather have Irwin than Carlos. Finding the right balance is the key.
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This is an interesting matchup with a 343. Something about Pat's side seems weird to me. Dunc and Pirri seem a bit redundant and not sure how the two pairs of teammates up front will mesh together.
I like the 343 a lot and props to savethequeen for finding that footage on Jair roasting Schnellinger. I tend to agree with Enigma that the midfield could really use a play maker type there. As it is I think a lot comes down to Jair. If he can reproduce what he did in that clip then that works well
I like the 343 a lot and props to savethequeen for finding that footage on Jair roasting Schnellinger. I tend to agree with Enigma that the midfield could really use a play maker type there. As it is I think a lot comes down to Jair. If he can reproduce what he did in that clip then that works well
That is the only thing I disagree with there. Its shavethequeen.
And yes, I put a lot of responsibility of Jair, but let me explain in more details how it helps.
1. Restricts Schnellinger from tucking in and blocking Kalle
2. Expect Edwards to put in a shift on the left side with Kalle and Jair being a threatening pair. In the process, reduces Edwards' impact on the game while keeping him busy and on alert.
3. Schnellinger being a defensive fullbacks makes it easier to defend that flank and helps Jair with contributing in the attacking phase as well.
As far as I am concerned, I have nailed that flank tactically. Not to say there are big weaknesses in that flank for Pat, but at least from my team's point of view, I can see the flank being perfect. And yes Jair is one of the most important players tactically in this game. But if it works like it has done in this role throughout his career, I think I can win that flank battle.
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feck I can't believe I read your name wrong all this time
Its funny right?feck I can't believe I read your name wrong all this time
That's true. As I said, I just can't really comment on many of P_M's players & I hoped others would.
Forgot to post one of my favorite bits of play from a young Marius Tresor. He played as a libero a lot in his days at Marseille and was always an option of building moves from the back and linking up with the attack.
This gives my team another play making option stepping up from the back. The three man defense helps him have that extra bit of freedom.
The dribbling, pace and touch there
This gives my team another play making option stepping up from the back. The three man defense helps him have that extra bit of freedom.
The dribbling, pace and touch there
Personally I don't have any problem with him there. Just put him in a free roaming role behind the striker and he'll drift left and right as he feels the need to. It's not the case of Puskas or Messi, when you can see that a player strongly prefers a certain side.
This.
Eusebio also had that Henry-esque tendency of shifting the ball to his left with his right foot as he pushed off and through the gears.
Good luck to you too mate!Oh and good luck @Pat_Mustard
Aye, there's not really much for me to answer here tbh. It's a fairly straightforward setup I'm playing in fairness, so it probably boils down to whether or not people rate my players or not.Good find on Jair and good Eusebio GIFs, but been there and done that on Eusebio and I don't think you're ever going to change Edgar's mind on this no matter how compelling the evidence
I haven't really been online much but if there's anyone specific you want to know more about I'll try to provide something mate
Haha didn't know there was history with @Edgar Allan Pillow and Eusebio, but those GIF's were one last attempt to convince him and of course @2mufc0Good find on Jair and good Eusebio GIFs, but been there and done that on Eusebio and I don't think you're ever going to change Edgar's mind on this no matter how compelling the evidence
Two years earlier, before being cast as footballing pariahs, Marseille were the envy of a watching continent. The accomplished display they put on at the San Siro against ArrigoSacchi’s AC Milan in the European Cup quarter-final first leg was widely seen as a shifting of European football’s tectonic plates. Coming away from Milan with a 1-1 draw, the second leg was a massively anticipated event.
A fortnight later, the return tie at the Stade Vélodrome was forever embossed by Milan’s refusal to return to the pitch after a floodlight failure in the last minute of the game. Prior to Milan’s late and unseemly stand-off, a nervy – and at times untidy – game had been punctuated by a moment of collective genius from Marseille, a goal of bewitching beauty, which had been on the brink of settling the outcome.
@Pat_Mustard got any more information on this?
A fortnight later, the return tie at the Stade Vélodrome was forever embossed by Milan’s refusal to return to the pitch after a floodlight failure in the last minute of the game. Prior to Milan’s late and unseemly stand-off, a nervy – and at times untidy – game had been punctuated by a moment of collective genius from Marseille, a goal of bewitching beauty, which had been on the brink of settling the outcome.
@Pat_Mustard got any more information on this?
It’s a 3-4-3 rather than 4-3-3 where the full backs are expected to bomb forward constantly and consistently provide width ala Barca or Liverpool.
Tend to believe that wing backs are often devoid of defensive duties in drafts which is far from reality. I like Irwin there as he’s an excellent balanced full back with enough stamina and work rate to pull of his role here.
I like the use of him as he brings a lot of balance to that wing as he offers himself going forward and stretches the opposition defence, but also provides enough cover for the defensive line and especially GSTQ weakest link - Toure.
Generally I'm a bit surprised of the criticism of the attacking line - to me it's the best attack on the pitch and all three offer different qualities and dimensions of that attack. If it wasn't for the really underwhelming midfield I'd probably have voted otherwise.
Alright, cool - I've got only very basic ideas about the front four, for example. You did sketch out their roles & interplay in the OP, so it's more a case of me not really being able to judge and discuss this.I haven't really been online much but if there's anyone specific you want to know more about I'll try to provide something mate
But perhaps just some more about how you envision them playing together? Things like:
What kind of CF role would Kocsis play in a modern 4-2-3-1?
How do Czibor and Waddle interpret their positions, how does each of them act/move in the attacking third, what are their individual strengths? I have Waddle down as a creative midfielder/winger with a good shot on him, and Czibor as more of a winger/forward (neither playing inverted here) - not sure if that's accurate or not.
Yeah, basically Milan were about to be eliminated so tried to game the system and force a replay by having the match abandoned. UEFA, for once, showed some common sense and fecked them off.https://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/28/sports/milan-soccer-club-banned-for-a-year.html
Some footage of it:
This should have been an all-touches video but I abandoned it due to time constraints ages ago and never got back to finishing it properly, but here's some bits and pieces of Waddle tormenting that great Milan defence from that match, with Abedi featuring too:
And a proper all-touches video of an excellent Waddle performance vs Germany in the 1990 World Cup:
Italians and trying to game the system
https://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/28/sports/milan-soccer-club-banned-for-a-year.html
Some footage of it:
This should have been an all-touches video but I abandoned it due to time constraints ages ago and never got back to finishing it properly, but here's some bits and pieces of Waddle tormenting that great Milan defence from that match, with Abedi featuring too:
And a proper all-touches video of an excellent Waddle performance vs Germany in the 1990 World Cup:
Just watched the first vid, his first touch and body control is really amazing. Some lovely feints, I also had it in my head that he was a lot slower than he is showing there.
With a back 3 behind him you'd expect a fullback to provide a more attacking output than a balanced one. Gary Neville had good stamina and workrate but would you buy him in as a wingback? I'd expect Alves in back 4 to have better attacking contribution than Irwin in back 5. In a back 4, there can be no question but I really don't say it'd be Irwin's peak in back 5. he certainly can do a job there, but then it won't the be constant overlapping we have see.
As to eusebio, this was his peak:
There are articles that state that he started his youth as Inside Left for Sporting Lisbon, but the got switched to his favourite Inside Right by Bela Guttman where he became legendary. He is a two footed player, but it's quite clear on what his favourite side it and where he excelled in real life.Brian Glanville said:
Inside Right or a Supporting Striker playing a free role in the hole (in modern formations) is what he excelled in. I have no doubts he can do the Inside Left role...but that definitely is not his peak.
Sorry GSTQ, Eusebio is a pet peeve of mine and I've done so much research on him in earlier drafts.
@Edgar Allan Pillow
Ok, let's say it was his best position.
But I have shown you enough proof that he was devastating from the left too and those 10 gifs show you all the zones on the left he had an impact on. Central, wide, deep etc. Surely, he should be judged on his role here rather than what his best position is which doesn't have any bearing on the game.
Ok, let's say it was his best position.
But I have shown you enough proof that he was devastating from the left too and those 10 gifs show you all the zones on the left he had an impact on. Central, wide, deep etc. Surely, he should be judged on his role here rather than what his best position is which doesn't have any bearing on the game.
And you'd expect Alves to struggle against a Eusebio and Irwin wing too. Especially with no support from Waddle. That is where the balance goes for a toss.
With Irwin, you have defensive cover and attacking impetus. Sure, maybe he won't produce assist after assist but he will provide width which is the main job in a 3-4-3, to stretch the field. You don't have to be at the corner flag everytime to do that.
Yeah, that's the reason, I haven't voted against you yet. Your player quality advantage as I mentioned before is simply too great vs Pat's defence.
Fair enough. I'll resume convincing you and 2mufc0 tomorrow
Been a lively first half. Will check back tomorrow. Cheers everyone.
Issue of the attack aside, i don't really rate that central midfield pair but i didn't want to bring that up earlier as i made too many posts about your attack. Sitting on the fence right now.Fair enough. I'll resume convincing you and 2mufc0 tomorrow
Been a lively first half. Will check back tomorrow. Cheers everyone.
I have no problems with either attack but I'm somewhat underwhelmed by both midfields. I'm just about going with GSTQ due to the quality of players in his attack.
The bit in the quote in this post about running off him without fear of the move breaking down resonated hard after watching tonight's match
Yup. Eusebio had one of the hardest shot in history. He hit it flat and generated significant power off his boots. He's one of my favorite players obviously as I picked him a lot of times, but is one of the greatest goalscorers of the game and his shot with the right foot is probably one of his major assets.
If he was to play today that comparison with Henry is pretty apt and I can also see him in a more central position(as a complete #9) or second striker either side.
Oh don't remind me the horror of Lukaku yesterdayThe bit in the quote in this post about running off him without fear of the move breaking down resonated hard after watching tonight's match
We were lucky growing up watching Scholes running off Van Nistelrooy. My poor kid has to do with Fred running off Lukaku