Uno Draft: SF - Moby vs Skizzo

[Skizzo]

Agree with the first part. That front 6 with the support from the full backs and Rio/McGrath defence is awesome. Only the keeper is an eye sore in the line up...

Disagree on the second part as obviously I've picked it before.

Tilting towards Moby so far because of the fantastic front 6.

The front 6 also comes up against a colossal defense in terms of player quality and personnel, all the way down to the Keeper. Fine margins and all that, but in a tight game, Schmeichel/Friedel can be the difference.

And of course you had fantastic taste in Sammer/Redondo combo

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Tough choice this. Have gone for Skizzo by a whisker. His team blends a bit more flair all through and that can tip the balance in unlocking the opposition. Plus better keeper.

You'd want a GOAT #10 in 3-5-2 at this stage though, especially with most of them being available.

For that team, you may need a specific kind of goat though, imo. I don't think plonking in Diego will elevate the team as a whole. The dynamics are pretty much perfect as of now and I highly rate Socrates as being the bridge between Redondo and Baggio. A very good foil who can operate between the lines connecting the defence to offence. Someone little more versatile like Platini/Charlton/Laudrup would be a more familiar name there without ruining the dynamics.

 

[Himannv]

I was just about to vote for Moby and then noticed his keeper. Now I have to think about it.

@Skizzo I expected you to switch to a back 4 and use your draw 4 to upgrade Socrates.

 

[Skizzo]

I was just about to vote for Moby and then noticed his keeper. Now I have to think about it.

@Skizzo I expected you to switch to a back 4 and use your draw 4 to upgrade Socrates.

I considered a back 4, but Sammer isn’t appreciated in a back 4, and Moby’s attack would be rated higher than a front 4 I could piece together. Set up here we have a solid defense and enough players that can unlock a team throughout the lines (Sammer from the back, Redondo from deep, Socrates in the hole, Baggio in the attack) that we can break through, and the last line of defense for is being Schmeichel, and his being Friedel means it can be decided by the more clinical team with less resistance.

Also, in regards to Socrates, even though most wouldn’t consider him in the top tier, the dynamics of blending him with Redondo/Keane and Baggio/Law mean the balance is just about perfect in terms of letting him shine, without needing to rely on him to dictate the game.

 

[Skizzo]

This is the conversation regarding Keepers in the last draft Friedel was picked. Even in that company he was considered the bottom 1 or 2. Here he would be more out of his depth and a clearer route to goal than anything else.

Aggregate scores. All in all, we were all satisfied it was a good reflection of relative ranking (the Top 1 & 2 traded sides and Balu actually settled it for Buffon by rating Neuer above Kahn ). Other than that Neuer was always third and the same held for Cech and Peruzzi.

Only a couple showed relevant variations (funny enough, Baia and Córdoba, the two which would have been involved in a shootout).

Buffon 78
Kahn 77
Neuer 73
Cech 68
Peruzzi 64
Barthez 57
Julio Cesar 53
Cordoba 50
Lehmann 49
Baia 45
Navas 41
Lloris 36
Klos 31
Abbondanzieri 28
Handanovic 26
Bravo 23
Friedel 17

wow interesting. Lehman is below Cordoba and Bartez above Julio Cesar.

I'd probably have it in this order:
Buffon
Neuer
Kahn
Cech
Julio Cesar
Peruzzi
Lehmann
Cordoba
Baia
Barthez
Lloris
Klos
Navas
Abbo
Handanovic
Friedel
Bravo

very much similar to the actual ranking

As an Arsenal fan, I actually think your list that overrates Lehmann a bit. He always had brain farts in him like a David Luiz but as a keeper (maybe thats a little too harsh but Jens always frustrated me). Even that 2006 CL final was a mistake on his part IMO, better to go a goal down that a man down + penalty.

Here is where I would put Lehmann and even then I would still personally hesitate to ever draft him simply because he frustrated me soo much over the years.


Buffon
Neuer
Kahn
Cech
Julio Cesar
Peruzzi
Cordoba
Baia
Barthez
Lloris
Navas
Lehmann
Handanovic
Klos
Abbo
Friedel
Bravo

Lovely stuff. Good piece of work boys, I really can't fault that. Okay maybe Barthez is a bit high, but I think you've pretty much nailed it.

Id have Navas and Lloris above Cordoba, Lehmann and Baia but other then that its a pretty good list.

Getting past our defense is the first task, and even when that happens, Schmeichel is there.

On the flip side it relies on Friedel as the last line of defense against clinical finishers like Baggio and Law.

 

[harms]

For that team, you may need a specific kind of goat though, imo. I don't think plonking in Diego will elevate the team as a whole. The dynamics are pretty much perfect as of now and I highly rate Socrates as being the bridge between Redondo and Baggio. A very good foil who can operate between the lines connecting the defence to offence. Someone little more versatile like Platini/Charlton/Laudrup would be a more familiar name there without ruining the dynamics.

I was thinking of Platini, personally, although Diego is always a good choice (but I agree, there's something off in Maradona-Baggio pairing).

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

This is the conversation regarding Keepers in the last draft Friedel was picked.

Big whoop. Looks like Schmeichel didn't even make the list

 

[Skizzo]

Big whoop. Looks like Schmeichel didn't even make the list

He was separate in his own God Tier, treble winner list

 

[Skizzo]

A touch on Sammer here in regards to his influence defensively for both Germany and his club sides

Seemingly at his peak aged 29, his finest glory yet to take place. Euro 96 saw Germany build around his precocious talents, which was no surprise given manager Berti Vogts’ knowledge of being a top defender. After a lowkey group stage, it was in the knockouts that Sammer took the helm like a true Kaiser, steering his country towards the annals of history.

He was inspirational against Croatia in the quarter-finals at Wembley, proving the difference between a resolute Germany side and a tremendously gifted Croatian one. The game itself was physical, but Sammer rose above it all, demonstrating his ability at both ends of the pitch. Winning a penalty, which Klinsmann converted, and scoring the second as Die Mannschaft kept a clean sheet.

He then stood tall against an England outfit looking for revenge after Italia 90, helping Germany see off their rivals on penalties again, before Oliver Bierhoff stole the headlines in the final against the Czech Republic with two goals – the winner a golden goal in the 95th minute. At the heart of everything Germany did well that summer was their powerful, opinionated and supremely gifted sweeper, who was duly named player of the tournament.

It is rare for a defender to win individual awards today but was a little more common a couple of decades ago. Sammer had been crowned German Footballer of the Year in 1995 and 1996, but was now officially the best player at Euro 96, and added a Ballon d’Or later that year, beating off stiff competition from Ronaldoand Alan Shearer. It meant that he had emulated the great German player to win the award from the libero position, Franz Beckenbauer.

Unbeknownst to Sammer at the time, ’96 and ’97 would prove to be his final two years at the very top. The next campaign was memorable for Dortmund’s Champions League victory, one which Sammer was yet again integral to. While many remember the attacking exploits of Stéphane Chapuisat, Andreas Möller and Karl-Heinz Riedle, it was Sammer, alongside the great Jürgen Kohler, who was most influential in their win, keeping the likes of Zinedine Zidane, Christian Vieri, Alen Bokšić and Alessandro Del Piero at bay.

He was a master at knowing when to step out, and when to dig in at the back. With only Henry as a focal point of the opposition, he’d be free here to step out to Laudrup and hound him. And with Rijkaard and Tardelli “dominating” Socrates, it would leave space for Redondo to create from a deeper role, or Sammer to bound up field as he saw fit if the oportunity arose.

 

[Zlatan 7]

I’m sorry, but how can you have brad Friedel in goal at semi final stage of a draft with all these goats on the field. There’s ample chance to upgrade through the rounds to a more worthy keeper, it just shows no thoughts are shown to keepers.
You have not even mentioned him in your draft write up.

Other than that, really close game again, skizzo defence looks inpenetrable. I’ll have a read of the thread and go from there.

 

[Skizzo]

I’m sorry, but how can you have brad Friedel in goal at semi final stage of a draft with all these goats on the field. There’s ample chance to upgrade through the rounds to a more worthy keeper, it just shows no thoughts are shown to keepers.
You have not even mentioned him in your draft write up.

Other than that, really close game again, skizzo defence looks inpenetrable. I’ll have a read of the thread and go from there.

That’s basically where I stand. I’m probably beating the same drum over and over again here but like you say, he didn’t even get a mention in the OP.

In terms of comparing attacks, Moby has a fantastic front 4 and midfield duo, no arguments at all. However, comparing attacks vs defense, I’d back us to put up more of a halt to proceedings than vice versa, and that’s even before you factor in Friedel/Schmeichel for each team.

 

[Himannv]

I considered a back 4, but Sammer isn’t appreciated in a back 4, and Moby’s attack would be rated higher than a front 4 I could piece together. Set up here we have a solid defense and enough players that can unlock a team throughout the lines (Sammer from the back, Redondo from deep, Socrates in the hole, Baggio in the attack) that we can break through, and the last line of defense for is being Schmeichel, and his being Friedel means it can be decided by the more clinical team with less resistance.

Also, in regards to Socrates, even though most wouldn’t consider him in the top tier, the dynamics of blending him with Redondo/Keane and Baggio/Law mean the balance is just about perfect in terms of letting him shine, without needing to rely on him to dictate the game.

Fairy nuff. Didn't realize you didn't have a good enough CB to play instead of Sammer.

 

[Skizzo]

Fairy nuff. Didn't realize you didn't have a good enough CB to play instead of Sammer.

I could have gone

Maldini Gentile Sammer Kaltz

Gemmell Maldini Gentile Kaltz

Or some combination of those. I have Charles as well, but he doesn’t get rated much as a defender, and I wanted to make the defense as airtight as possible with Moby’s front 4

 

[Himannv]

The lack of footage probably hurts Charles as a CB. Everything I've read and the bits I've watched all seem to point to him being great as a CB.

 

[Skizzo]

The lack of footage probably hurts Charles as a CB. Everything I've read and the bits I've watched all seem to point to him being great as a CB.

I remember trying to champion his cause in the first British draft, and he’s been used there a few times since, especially since all the anecdotes seem to paint him as a great presence at both ends. You’re probably right though about the lack of actual footage hurting him in that regard.

 

[Enigma_87]

The front 6 also comes up against a colossal defense in terms of player quality and personnel, all the way down to the Keeper. Fine margins and all that, but in a tight game, Schmeichel/Friedel can be the difference.

And of course you had fantastic taste in Sammer/Redondo combo

Yeah naturally. You have a pretty good case in the keeper comparison. The gulf in quality is even bigger than the other game.

However saying that and maybe might sound as a blasphemy to @oneniltothearsenal but I really don't rate Socrates all that high.

Looking at the reinforcement round a solid LB pick and Pele instead of Facchetti would have made a lot of difference in terms of quality in attack for your team.

From first sight Friedel is an eye sore, but that Moby front 6 is really hard to look past.

It's really perfectly balanced - a more attacking left back in Lizarazu to stretch the left side with the more likely to cut in winger in Dzajic, to the more conservative Mcgrain to compliment the outside right in Figo, through a really impenetrable base of Rijkaard and Tardelli. Laudrup / Henry is a tasty combo and Rio/Mcgrath is probably the best defenders United ever had.

On top of that you have Law to spearhead the attack and that fecker Friedel will probably have a worldie, considering his form against us...

 

[Skizzo]

Yeah naturally. You have a pretty good case in the keeper comparison. The gulf in quality is even bigger than the other game.

I won’t bang on about it (I say before banging on about it )but even in games when we struggled to break down Blackburn/Villa, we often times eventually put a good few number past him. He seemed to parry the ball back into dangerous areas a lot.

First goal in this video...and we’ll not mention who was at fault for Blackburn’s second and later got red carded


And same in this game too off a free kick. Sorry for it looking like someone filmed it with a potato

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Yeah naturally. You have a pretty good case in the keeper comparison. The gulf in quality is even bigger than the other game.

However saying that and maybe might sound as a blasphemy to @oneniltothearsenal but I really don't rate Socrates all that high.

On his day he could unlock the best defenses of all time but of course he wasn't always dedicated to training. Thing is even though Rijkaard and Tardelli are tough having Friedel in goal gives Socrates opportunities like this

 

[2mufc0]

I won’t bang on about it (I say before banging on about it )but even in games when we struggled to break down Blackburn/Villa, we often times eventually put a good few number past him. He seemed to parry the ball back into dangerous areas a lot.

First goal in this video...and we’ll not mention who was at fault for Blackburn’s second and later got red carded


And same in this game too off a free kick. Sorry for it looking like someone filmed it with a potato

This decides the game for me, otherwise a very close game.

 

[Moby]

Congrats @Skizzo

 

[Skizzo]

Congrats @Skizzo

Cheers mate

 

[MJJ]

Both semis ended up with a 10 11 scoreline