Fairly mainstream opinion : Onana isn’t Fabrice Ondoa, or very good

[lex talionis]

“Bobbins”, no. Onana is not crap, but he’s certainly not exceptional in the PL. Not yet at least. What I see the problem with Onana is that he’s struggling to live up to the hype that brought him to OT. Every mistake, and there admittedly been far more mistakes than most of us expected, are scrutinized and magnified. Like yesterday..,neither of the two goals were his fault, but it’s also not unreasonable to have asked for a better reaction on both. He’s not now nor ever will be the shot stopper that De Gea was, but very few keepers ever will be.

But the valid criticism of Onana has to do with the expectations that his footwork were going to somehow have a “transformational” impact on our attacking play. His footwork is fine, and without any question an upgrade on De Gea. But his footwork not only has had nothing like a transformational impact on our attacking play, we’re clearly weaker in attack now than we were last season, which in no way is Onana’s fault. But it was always fukking delusional to believe the “transformational” hype in the first place.

But no, Onana is not crap…or “bobbins”. If he’s given another 2-3 seasons I have no doubt he’ll adapt to the hot lights of Old Trafford. But so far, holy shit.

 

[acnumber9]

No, it's not "subjective" because every GK is evaluated against the same model. "Completed passess" stat is accurate but doesn't tell you anything in isolation, PSxG vs goals conceded tells you quite accurately if the GK is a good shotstopper (not goalkeeper!).

Agreed about shots the keeper deflects directly to an opponent, this isn't part of the model and a flaw.


Correct, this is a flaw of the model, but it's still a good one. Even if I agree about the bolded part, it's still nothing more than an "impression". You would need to watch all the gks in all the games to say that Onana is any worse in that regard compared to the "average". It's easier to remember those occasions if you watch your GK regularly, especially if he's facing shitload of shots.

It’s an impression based on watching football. Even if I only watched United matches in my life I would be able to form the impression he does it a lot. That’s because he does.

 

[NLunited]

Onana is doing well right now, our current struggles have nothing to do with him. Every game we see more press-resistant stuff from him.

 

[Borys]

It’s an impression based on watching football. Even if I only watched United matches in my life I would be able to form the impression he does it a lot. That’s because he does.

Correct. Just keep in mind last season many people thought De Gea is still an amazing shot stopper because he made an "impression" of making unreal saves, but in reality he was bang average shot stopper overall for the last 3-4 years. Onana so far is on DDG best levels, what was the initial point I made to someone making a suggestion that he's "not an upgrade" on Dave.

I do think the numbers are bit in his favour and he will drop closer to average - based on my impression so far he's not a great shot stopper. But maybe he's pulling those numbers because he's positioning himself better etc, I don't know that much about goalkeeping. Anyway, I feel like he's been quite good for us in the league, but in the end if we're losing so many games fans patience is paper thin. Just look at Antony. Is he playing worse than last season? Not really. But fans reaction is very different - because we don't have Rashford pulling us through games. Final result is 80% of the optics. I feel Onana is a victim of that.

 

[dinostar77]

“Bobbins”, no. Onana is not crap, but he’s certainly not exceptional in the PL. Not yet at least. What I see the problem with Onana is that he’s struggling to live up to the hype that brought him to OT. Every mistake, and there admittedly been far more mistakes than most of us expected, are scrutinized and magnified. Like yesterday..,neither of the two goals were his fault, but it’s also not unreasonable to have asked for a better reaction on both. He’s not now nor ever will be the shot stopper that De Gea was, but very few keepers ever will be.

But the valid criticism of Onana has to do with the expectations that his footwork were going to somehow have a “transformational” impact on our attacking play. His footwork is fine, and without any question an upgrade on De Gea. But his footwork not only has had nothing like a transformational impact on our attacking play, we’re clearly weaker in attack now than we were last season, which in no way is Onana’s fault. But it was always fukking delusional to believe the “transformational” hype in the first place.

But no, Onana is not crap…or “bobbins”. If he’s given another 2-3 seasons I have no doubt he’ll adapt to the hot lights of Old Trafford. But so far, holy shit.

He fundamentally lacks world class shot stopping ability. We've been lucky to have keepers with that in abundance: schmeichel, van der saar, de gea. Now we dont, it makes it more obvious why that quality is so important for a utd keeper. We always give the opposition chances and keepers with WC shot stopping ability save us most of the time. Now we dont so we conceed more.

 

[arnie_ni]

Onana so far is on DDG best levels, what was the initial point

Sorry are you saying onana is as good a shot stopper as ddg was at his best levels?

Thats fecking insane. He isn't close

 

[NLunited]

Sorry are you saying onana is as good a shot stopper as ddg was at his best levels?

Thats fecking insane. He isn't close

No, it is about the numbers Onana is putting up, they are decent.

De Gea in his last years would still make great saves, along with more mistakes.

 

[RedinIndia]

He stopped it, I think he was a bit unlucky it bounced right back off Bowen’s leg and in.

I think there was always a complaint about Onana that his "saves" still keep the ball in play quite a bit.

That's not something which keepers should be doing.

 

[SambaBoy]

Correct. Just keep in mind last season many people thought De Gea is still an amazing shot stopper because he made an "impression" of making unreal saves, but in reality he was bang average shot stopper overall for the last 3-4 years. Onana so far is on DDG best levels, what was the initial point I made to someone making a suggestion that he's "not an upgrade" on Dave.

I do think the numbers are bit in his favour and he will drop closer to average - based on my impression so far he's not a great shot stopper. But maybe he's pulling those numbers because he's positioning himself better etc, I don't know that much about goalkeeping. Anyway, I feel like he's been quite good for us in the league, but in the end if we're losing so many games fans patience is paper thin. Just look at Antony. Is he playing worse than last season? Not really. But fans reaction is very different - because we don't have Rashford pulling us through games. Final result is 80% of the optics. I feel Onana is a victim of that.

Can't really agree with that. Just check out the Leicester game from last season and he's making multiple unbelievable saves in one game. The ability to make world class saves was still there but obviously his game was riddled with mistakes. You could argue yeah that Onana is on the same level as De Gea last season - but it's still not good enough for United. Both were/are making silly mistakes and the positives are Onana's passing (which hasn't transformed us) and De Gea ability to make incredible saves (which were then undone by a terrible mistake).

I think the decision to part with De Gea was the correct one, however we took 1/3 of our budget to replace him with someone who hasn't done better which has been a terrible move so far.

 

[ETH86]

I'm really baffled how almost every top performing player turns into an amateur at United. Antony, Onana, Hojlund, Van De Beek, Malacia, the list goes on and on. What's happening? Especially Antony, that guy is not a shit footballer, but he seems to have lost it at United unfortunately.

 

[Borys]

Sorry are you saying onana is as good a shot stopper as ddg was at his best levels?

Thats fecking insane. He isn't close

Can't really agree with that. Just check out the Leicester game from last season and he's making multiple unbelievable saves in one game. The ability to make world class saves was still there but obviously his game was riddled with mistakes. You could argue yeah that Onana is on the same level as De Gea last season - but it's still not good enough for United. Both were/are making silly mistakes and the positives are Onana's passing (which hasn't transformed us) and De Gea ability to make incredible saves (which were then undone by a terrible mistake).

I think the decision to part with De Gea was the correct one, however we took 1/3 of our budget to replace him with someone who hasn't done better which has been a terrible move so far.

De Gea best season was 0,34 PSxG/90, that is exactly the level that Vicario is on now, Onana is on 0,25 so close (but not quite there). The problem is De Gea has not been anywhere close to that since 2018, so purely judging by this parameter Onana is doing a good job and he IS an upgrade on Dave - at least in the league. In CL he has been a disaster. I also think Onana is on the "lucky" side but this evens out in the end.

De Gea flattered to deceive as a shotstopper in the last 5 years, although he was capable of stopping balls that Onana will not be able to reach IMO. He was a poor goalkeeper and was correct decision to get rid.

 

[stefan92]

De Gea best season was 0,34 PSxG/90, that is exactly the level that Vicario is on now, Onana is on 0,25 so close (but not quite there). The problem is De Gea has not been anywhere close to that since 2018, so purely judging by this parameter Onana is doing a good job and he IS an upgrade on Dave - at least in the league. In CL he has been a disaster. I also think Onana is on the "lucky" side but this evens out in the end.

De Gea flattered to deceive as a shotstopper in the last 5 years, although he was capable of stopping balls that Onana will not be able to reach IMO. He was a poor goalkeeper and was correct decision to get rid.

There is a problem here that's not covered by that stat. As mentioned before Onana often saves the ball, but by deflecting it back into play. Which sometimes gives away the chance to shoot a second time. So he has to face more shots in total than a keeper who more reliably saves by catching or deflecting the ball out of play.

 

[simplyared]

Again his actions on both goals in the West Ham defeat are iffy to say the least.
Goal 1: he does the right thing to challenge Bowen by spreading himself to cover all angles. But it's half-hearted and without full comittment. It's a weak attempt which results in Bowen being given a second chance.
Goal 2: He should have anticipated which corner the ball was going to go in. His movement before the shot was fired can be questioned definately. Result: a desperate dive to the right nowhere near coming in contact with the ball and a show for the gallery. He makes easy actions look spectacular. The word clown has been used on this thread.

 

[Borys]

There is a problem here that's not covered by that stat. As mentioned before Onana often saves the ball, but by deflecting it back into play. Which sometimes gives away the chance to shoot a second time. So he has to face more shots in total than a keeper who more reliably saves by catching or deflecting the ball out of play.

Are we going to bin the whole model now because it has a minor flaw? Nobody ever said that stats reflect 1to1 the reality, if anybody believes that then he's a fool. It's definitely not enough to discredit Onana anyway.

 

[arnie_ni]

De Gea best season was 0,34 PSxG/90, that is exactly the level that Vicario is on now, Onana is on 0,25 so close (but not quite there). The problem is De Gea has not been anywhere close to that since 2018, so purely judging by this parameter Onana is doing a good job and he IS an upgrade on Dave - at least in the league. In CL he has been a disaster. I also think Onana is on the "lucky" side but this evens out in the end.

De Gea flattered to deceive as a shotstopper in the last 5 years, although he was capable of stopping balls that Onana will not be able to reach IMO. He was a poor goalkeeper and was correct decision to get rid.

Any stat that has onana close to ddg peak is worthless. Just watch the games. They aren't even close.

 

[Andersonson]

Onana is doing well right now, our current struggles have nothing to do with him. Every game we see more press-resistant stuff from him.

Doing well ? How many howlers is reasonable? I dont agree with this statement at all. He'd had some decent games and some terrible ones. Far from good enough if we're supposed to move forward and far from good enough if you take fees and wages into consideration

 

[TysonFury]

Looking at the Positives, he’s very comfortable with his feet. Evans put him in danger one time with a pass, but he still controlled it and managed to get the pass off to Wan Bissaka. Also in fairness to him he hasn’t had the luxury of playing with a settled back four, it’s always constantly changed, and that can’t be good for any goalkeeper.

 

[NLunited]

Doing well ? How many howlers is reasonable? I dont agree with this statement at all. He'd had some decent games and some terrible ones. Far from good enough if we're supposed to move forward and far from good enough if you take fees and wages into consideration

No howlers in the last run of games. DeGea had howlers and couldn’t pass out the back like Onana does. So far it is an improvement.

 

[simplyared]

Looking at the Positives, he’s very comfortable with his feet. Evans put him in danger one time with a pass, but he still controlled it and managed to get the pass off to Wan Bissaka. Also in fairness to him he hasn’t had the luxury of playing with a settled back four, it’s always constantly changed, and that can’t be good for any goalkeeper.

He should never have passed the ball to Evans in the first place. Who put who in danger???

 

[Abraxas]

Not sure he's ever going to inspire confidence with his stop stopping and propensity for mistakes. It could happen but he just looks the type that at this level will make regular blunders. I wouldn't even call it nerves because he's calm on the ball, it's just basic fundamental skills of goalkeeping aren't at the expected level.

But yes, he's quality at playing out if that somehow compensates. If he's not chucking the ball into his own net then he becomes a big asset.

 

[OrcaFat]

He looks a little uncertain at times and indecisive coming off his line. It has something to do with the unreliable positional structure in front of him, imo. The players are out of position too often and it’s not pleasant being keeper behind that chaos.

 

[Andersonson]

No howlers in the last run of games. DeGea had howlers and couldn’t pass out the back like Onana does. So far it is an improvement.

Ah yes. Its two games ago since the last one, against Bournemouth. He is cured and world class!

 

[Reapersoul20]

People are really overstating the number of DDG howlers and really understating the amount of Onana howlers.

Honestly, he has been fairly shite, but he's improved recently and hopefully it continues.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

I'm really baffled how almost every top performing player turns into an amateur at United. Antony, Onana, Hojlund, Van De Beek, Malacia, the list goes on and on. What's happening? Especially Antony, that guy is not a shit footballer, but he seems to have lost it at United unfortunately.

We have better examples of world class footballers that became shit when joining UTD, Antony is not one of them.

 

[Partridge]

We have better examples of world class footballers that became shit when joining UTD, Antony is not one of them.

Anthony has hardly proven value though, has he. Apart from running and cutting back, a bit of spinny ball, and the periodic actual take-on with success, he has been a failure, without a doubt. massive failure.

 

[NLunited]

Ah yes. Its two games ago since the last one, against Bournemouth. He is cured and world class!

Ah yes. Its two games ago since the last one, against Bournemouth. He is cured and world class!

No howlers in the Bournemouth game either , what’s your point?

 

[tompo18]

Not sure he's ever going to inspire confidence with his stop stopping and propensity for mistakes. It could happen but he just looks the type that at this level will make regular blunders. I wouldn't even call it nerves because he's calm on the ball, it's just basic fundamental skills of goalkeeping aren't at the expected level.

But yes, he's quality at playing out if that somehow compensates. If he's not chucking the ball into his own net then he becomes a big asset.

Exactly correct, my main concern is his basic technique as a goalkeeper which I can't imagine will change significantly.

 

[devil in me]

Anthony has hardly proven value though, has he. Apart from running and cutting back, a bit of spinny ball, and the periodic actual take-on with success, he has been a failure, without a doubt. massive failure.

I think he means that Anthony was never any good in the first place.

 

[lex talionis]

We're all being too hard on Onana. Everyone should have known that it would take 1-2 seasons for him to settle in. He's clearly unsettled but in time he'll get there.

Whether we should have brought him in is a different question, but here we are now having taken a step back at keeper but in time we'll take the step forward again. Doubtful he'll ever be the keeper De Gea was even last season but here we are, come what may.

 

[el3mel]

Guy is legit one of the worst keepers I have ever seen and I'm not overreacting. His reactions are painfully slow. I haven't seen a keeper who feels such slow and heavy whenever he jumps. Look at the 2nd goal, it was shot straight at him yet he took ages to jump.

Going from De Gea's inhuman reactions to this is painful.

People were saying this take was ridiculous. I stand by my opinion. He's easily one of the worst keepers I have ever seen.

 

[forevrared]

Another for the lowlight reel.

 

[redshaw]

Not surprising but there's no common understanding. We look more soft and static with Onana like there's completely different expectations to what could develop in front of our goal. It's getting beyond comical now.

 

[Jund]

Onana is making everything possible to reaffirm my initial take. Shouldn’t have spent all that money on an average goalkeeper.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

He's spectacularly shit

 

[Ish]

This guy. Can we get a refund?

 

[Globule]

In every sense, he's not a keeper.

 

[NK86]

Cannot believe we dropped 50 mil on this turd of a keeper. At this stage I would charge both ETH and Murtough of impropriety with the signings and amount of money they have wasted. I mean no one could be this bad at judging players and get every single signing so overly expensive and so spectacularly wrong.

 

[RVN1991]

I knew we'd struggle to replace De Gea but I never imagined it'd go this catastrophic.

 

[Ralaks]

Feels like its a pen everytime there is in inswinging free kick

 

[grahamo]

Onana for that first goal what a clown