Unprecedented downwards spiral in less than seven years….. what’s the root cause?

[Cassidy]

Hiring two poor managers from low level competition. They both amass the two worst league finishes in United's premier league history.

Yes there we no signs before this…

 

[Cassidy]

We’ve been a mess for more then seven years when it comes to financial decisions. We’ve had SAF and Gill carrying us for many years. So like many others is also say the Glazers are to blame and now with the Ineos they’ve unsettled the boat even more. We are a total mess. We need Glazers out and the Qatari takeover….!

As for Ineos the boat needed unsettling and sometimes things can get worse before they get better.

Not saying they are good or will be but its a little early to write them off

 

[Cassidy]

I get that’s the stock answer and they have a huge amount to answer for. I can’t stand them. But we were finishing 2nd, 2nd & 3rd with them in the club.

Covering cracks where did we finish in between those seasons?

Also is the squad better than those 2 second place finishes. No its not and they never bothered to try and fix the issues with recruitment that is fully on them

 

[Heinzesight]

Woowar

 

[Leftback99]

It's the TRANSFERS!

We have spent enough money to be a top four side and we are not because our transfers have been terrible for years. Below are the substantial money transfers the last 8 years.

Just look at all the wasted money. IMO the only good transfers that have been worth the cost have been Lindelof, Dalot, Amad, Martinez (barely), Bruno, and Maguire. Yoro, Ugarte, Maz and Dorgu are still possibly good (Yoro is a definite, the others ???)

24/25
Yoro 62m
Ugarte 50m
de Ligt 45m
Zirkzee 42m
Dorgu 30m
Maz 15m

23/24
Hojlund 77m
Mount 64m
Onana 50m

22/23
Antony 95m
Casemiro 70m
Martinez 57m

21/22
Sancho 80m
Varane 40m
Ronaldo 17m

20/21
Van de Beck 39m
Amad 21m
Telles 15m

19/20
Maguire 87m
Bruno 65m
Wan Bissaka 55m
James

18/19
Fred 59m
Dalot 22m

17/18
Lukaku 84m
Matic 44m
Lindelof 35m
Sanchez 34m

Yep, it's that simple. Just look at the £800m spent in the last 5 years, it's horrific. And that's ignoring the wages.

 

[tjb]

Two things:

a. Combination of low energy and poor technique in midfield. This was temporarily cured with Casemiro in 2023, but his physical fall off led to another drop and we didn't have the depth to cover for this gap. With Fred, Mctominay, Herrera etc we always had energy.
b. Our attackers. Rashford's form dropped, Greenwood was sent packing, Martial declined and the repolacements were bottom 5 quality ( Hojlund, Zirkzee, Antony).

 

[NewGlory]

Now that the dust has somewhat settled after last night’s EL disaster, it got me thinking…. And apologies in advance for the negativity, but I’d call it honesty.

Seven years ago we finished 2nd in the PL. Four years ago we finished 2nd (Covid year). Two years ago we finished 3rd. Nobody in their right minds could have foreseen that in the space of only two years, we would go from regular champions league place contenders (literally) to probably finishing 17th, fortunate not to be in a genuine relegation battle because of the 3 championship teams who were in the PL this season. Throw in to that, no European football for only the 2nd time in 30 odd years.

So what is the fundamental reason for this stark drop? I appreciate we’re not entitled to finish in the top 4 every season or even top 6, but this is truly stunning when you look at the league table.

In my opinion, I believe the jolt of the INEOS take over and the huge raft of changes throughout the club has fed through to the pitch. When you mix a cocktail of that negative feeling with some atrocious decisions on transfers (some before INEOS in their defence), take the £108.5 million on Hojilund & Zirzkee for example, and a truly awful decision on the previous manager and current manger in terms of their respective dismissal and appointment timings, managers by the way that play totally different styles/systems, it has created a toxic mix that is destroying the club.

Where do we turn now? I really don’t know. So what do we put this unprecedented spiral down to?

Shitty owners is the root cause. Old structure was coasting on inertia after Sir Alex and then it just all crumbled. Also other teams invested heavily. EPL is much stronger now outside us

 

[Gazza]

Two things:

a. Combination of low energy and poor technique in midfield. This was temporarily cured with Casemiro in 2023, but his physical fall off led to another drop and we didn't have the depth to cover for this gap. With Fred, Mctominay, Herrera etc we always had energy.
b. Our attackers. Rashford's form dropped, Greenwood was sent packing, Martial declined and the repolacements were bottom 5 quality ( Hojlund, Zirkzee, Antony).

This - I have said before that we've basically been subtracting quality from our squad almost year on year. At some point it catches up with you.

 

[Waynne]

Root cause is the Glazers

That led to lack of investment in the team.
That led to an aging squad and lack of world class talent towards the end of Fergies reign.
That led to things quickly going tits up when Moyes took over.
The Glazers are responsible for Woodward, the numpty who thought he was in charge of an adult Disneyland.
Woodward is responsible for hiring the other numpties who negotiated so many of our disastrous transfers and contracts.
He built a culture epitimised by greed and lack of accountability. Players were desperate to hop aboard the United gravy train. Little effort.
Easy money. Fans will still applaud and sing their names regardless.
Arrogance from Woodward and fans alike: We're too big and too rich to fail. Let's throw more money at the problem every summer. Throw enough money at a manager and he's bound to succeed eventually, right?
Self righteousness: fans believing United are different and more special than any other club, and blindly backing shit managers somehow makes us better.

The root cause are the Glazers. But everyone associated with the club has had some part to play in our downfall. If only lessons would be learned.

Not sure what much is left to be said because it perfeclty sums up where the club used to be and where it is now.

Sad fecking story.

 

[Kopral Jono]

Poor signings, with summer of 2023 being most destructive.

 

[DarkLord1984]

As for Ineos the boat needed unsettling and sometimes things can get worse before they get better.

Not saying they are good or will be but its a little early to write them off

This.

At least they are trying to cut costs and have finally acknowledged that we are financially in the shitter.

If the Glazers were still in charge, they'd just keep driving the club towards financial ruin without a care in the world.

 

[Insanity]

Recruitment recruitment recruitment

*and stupid contract extensions

 

[Tarrou]

glazers

 

[DarkLord1984]

Recruitment recruitment recruitment

*and stupid contract extensions

I still remember when we gave a permanently injured Phil Jones a 4 year contract extension, when he had barely played in months.

The Facebook announcement was met with thousands of people simply saying 'Why?!'

 

[Insanity]

I still remember when we gave a permanently injured Phil Jones a 4 year contract extension, when he had barely played in months.

The Facebook announcement was met with thousands of people simply saying 'Why?!'

The stupid contract extensions started with the Nani one under Woodward. We gave him an extension and then sent him to Sporting to play a season for free in exchange for fecking Rojo. Since then it has been one after the other. Nani, Bailly, Rojo, Jones, Martial, Shaw....the list is endless. The "protecting the value" era that Woodward started was quite something.

I even think the one to Bruno at the beginning of this season was fecking stupid when he had plenty of time left on his current deal.

 

[steve zizou]

Hiring two poor managers from low level competition. They both amass the two worst league finishes in United's premier league history.

Very good hindsight. I'm guessing since Arne Slot has killed the low-level competition argument, you have to now qualify the managers as poor first.

 

[DarkLord1984]

The stupid contract extensions started with the Nani one under Woodward. We gave him an extension and then sent him to Sporting to play a season for free in exchange for fecking Rojo. Since then it has been one after the other. Nani, Bailly, Rojo, Jones, Martial, Shaw....the list is endless. The "protecting the value" era that Woodward started was quite something.

I even think the one to Bruno at the beginning of this season was fecking stupid when he had plenty of time left on his current deal.

We've got to be the only club who implemented that as a strategy.

'Here's some average and/or constantly injured players. Let's give them huge contracts to protect their asset value, whilst completely ignoring the fact that no one is ever going to want to buy them, which puts all the power in the players' hands, and gives them the ability to sit on their contracts and bleed the club dry!'

The level of incompetence is staggering. It wouldn't surprise me if it came out that Woodward was a closet Liverpool fan and was hell bent on destroying us from within.

 

[Mike Smalling]

We gave up on trying to have the best team in the world in the summer of 2009, when we replaced Ronaldo and Tevez with Valencia, Owen and Obertan. Even though we’ve won titles since then, that was when it started to unravel. That was probably also the last time we had an effective midfield - as Scholes and Carrick aged we never replaced them.

 

[TheNewEra]

The leaky roof

 

[Waynne]

We've got to be the only club who implemented that as a strategy.

'Here's some average and/or constantly injured players. Let's give them huge contracts to protect their asset value, whilst completely ignoring the fact that no one is ever going to want to buy them, which puts all the power in the players' hands, and gives them the ability to sit on their contracts and bleed the club dry!'

The level of incompetence is staggering. It wouldn't surprise me if it came out that Woodward was a closet Liverpool fan and was hell bent on destroying us from within.

As far fetched and royally fecked up as that sounds, I've thought about it countless times over the years.

 

[King29]

Most of the main points have already been covered like bad owners, underinvestment in since '09, bad recruitment.

I would also throw in there we have been unlucky. In an alternate universe, Shaw doesnt suffer a double leg break, greenwood is not a disgusting human being and is scoring goals for us with hojland still in italy wrestling serie a defenders, zlatan stays uninjured another year helps jose control the dressing room, martial remains injury free etc...

As I type this though it's clear none of this would undo the sheer combined incompetence of Woodward and the Glazers. Probably would've delayed the tailspin we are in though I guess.

 

[Kelly15]

Poor footballing structure. No long term planning.

 

[Beagle]

Entitlement.

 

[Denis79]

I get that’s the stock answer and they have a huge amount to answer for. I can’t stand them. But we were finishing 2nd, 2nd & 3rd with them in the club.

They took over in 2005, just about when we had just assembled one of our best teams ever. it took them just 7 years to completely destroy us.

 

[1988]

Woodward.

 

[spwd]

It's the TRANSFERS!

We have spent enough money to be a top four side and we are not because our transfers have been terrible for years. Below are the substantial money transfers the last 8 years.

Just look at all the wasted money. IMO the only good transfers that have been worth the cost have been Lindelof, Dalot, Amad, Martinez (barely), Bruno, and Maguire. Yoro, Ugarte, Maz and Dorgu are still possibly good (Yoro is a definite, the others ???)

24/25
Yoro 62m
Ugarte 50m
de Ligt 45m
Zirkzee 42m
Dorgu 30m
Maz 15m

23/24
Hojlund 77m
Mount 64m
Onana 50m

22/23
Antony 95m
Casemiro 70m
Martinez 57m

21/22
Sancho 80m
Varane 40m
Ronaldo 17m

20/21
Van de Beck 39m
Amad 21m
Telles 15m

19/20
Maguire 87m
Bruno 65m
Wan Bissaka 55m
James

18/19
Fred 59m
Dalot 22m

17/18
Lukaku 84m
Matic 44m
Lindelof 35m
Sanchez 34m

You lost me at Lindelof.

 

[Lash]

There's no root cause. It's compounding factors.

No actual plan to achieve overall objective of "getting back to where we belong"
Poor definition or instilling of "culture" within the organisation. Constantly referred to but never adhered to.
Terrible recruitment of players and managers
Saddled with Debt, money extracted from the club by the glazers, whilst also destroying the business.
Randomly losing our most talented youngster due to his abhorrent behaviour in his personal life.
New ownership wasting even more money on stupid things like payoffs for Ten Hag and Ashworth.

 

[Wibble]

The root cause is the Glazers funded by them piling debt on the club and then treating us like a cash cow. We have made terrible managerial and player choices but mostly due to the Glazers not giving a toss about the football except to try to maintain their gravy train. It is what they have always done with sports teams and success is never essential on the field. Now that FFP exists we can't even buy our way out of it, even assuming we would be given the funds by the new regime. We are now in a position of having to get rid of a promising manager who will only play one formation because almost none of the payers we have suit said formation and the managerial merry-go-round again, or accept that it could take many years to adapt our squad.

 

[Insanity]

There's no root cause. It's compounding factors.

No actual plan to achieve overall objective of "getting back to where we belong"
Poor definition or instilling of "culture" within the organisation. Constantly referred to but never adhered to.
Terrible recruitment of players and managers
Saddled with Debt, money extracted from the club by the glazers, whilst also destroying the business.
Randomly losing our most talented youngster due to his abhorrent behaviour in his personal life.
New ownership wasting even more money on stupid things like payoffs for Ten Hag and Ashworth.

...Ten Hag and Ashworth and buying Ruben & staff out of their Sporting contracts.

 

[Lash]

...Ten Hag and Ashworth and buying Ruben & staff out of their Sporting contracts.

Would bundle that under recruitment of managers, but yeah, just obscene amounts of waste.

 

[Insanity]

Would bundle that under recruitment of managers, but yeah, just obscene amounts of waste.

We extended Ten Hag, bought him ~200m of players, fired him & gave him a bigger payoff than we'd have if we let him go in the summer, and then paid Sporting to recruit a guy who is going to lead us to the 17th and lost to Spurs in the Europa final. If you don't laugh, you'd cry.

 

[ElCuddlos]

The owners set the culture and our owners sit on their arse not caring and draining the club of cash. Is it any surprise so many of our players do too?

 

[Marcus]

It's the style of play. From being a counter-attacking team, we tried to become a super pressing team or possession-based team, without the right players to do it.

 

[Lash]

We extended Ten Hag, bought him ~200m of players, fired him & gave him a bigger payoff than we'd have if we let him go in the summer, and then paid Sporting to recruit a guy who is going to lead us to the 17th and lost to Spurs in the Europa final. If you don't laugh, you'd cry.

Alongside that, how long did we wait and pay Newcastle for Ashworth? Just to bin him and pay him off within months.

 

[Longsight Red]

The spiral was born when the Glazers first took control, fortunately Ferguson and Gill were the adults in the room guiding the ship. Once Ferguson and Gill stepped down and the Glazers assumed full control, and gave Woodward full power, the rot began spreading. The rot has grown multiple roots and branches as of today.

Succinctly put!

 

[Insanity]

It's the style of play. From being a counter-attacking team, we tried to become a super pressing team or possession-based team, without the right players to do it.

Every manager besides Moyes was given enough cash and time to recruit the players they wanted and implement their style of play. It is their fault if they tried something not suited to the squad and failed.

 

[Insanity]

Alongside that, how long did we wait and pay Newcastle for Ashworth? Just to bin him and pay him off within months.

It's surreal.

 

[Xeque_279]

Hiring two poor managers from low level competition. They both amass the two worst league finishes in United's premier league history.

You do realise Liverpool won the league with a coach from the same league?

 

[Shunty]

The glazers, no other club in the world has had debt out on it the way United has, should be unlawful and is now. Disgusting the way the government stand by and let it happen. Also saf the way he strolls around with the glazers knowing what they have done shows true colours

 

[Marcus]

Every manager besides Moyes was given enough cash and time to recruit the players they wanted and implement their style of play. It is their fault if they tried something not suited to the squad and failed.

I think they all talk about their wonderful ideas and how they would stand out from other managers in their job interview, only to find that their tactics are not suited to be used against the super athletes in the EPL. Nobody says, I am going to play football in a simple way which will get us results. I think that is the problem. Get us someone cynical who is willing just to get the job done.