g = window.googletag || {}; googletag.cmd = googletag.cmd || []; window.googletag = googletag; googletag.cmd.push(function() { var interstitialSlot = googletag.defineOutOfPageSlot('/17085479/redcafe_gam_interstitial', googletag.enums.OutOfPageFormat.INTERSTITIAL); if (interstitialSlot) { interstitialSlot.addService(googletag.pubads()); } });

Urgent need for a defensive midfielder?

Rude von Mistelroum

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 12, 2018
Messages
28
No your not the only one, I’ve been banging this drum in almost every thread...

It’s feckin paramount.
Absolutely. Would give us so much more control/composure in games.
Wouldn’t stop us completely conceding goals like the OG yesterday (like some people want) because you’ll always concede rubbish goals like those from time to time, everyone does.

But would definitely reduce the number of chances teams get against us and so less pressure on the back 4.
 

Dr Fink

Full Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
606
Location
Purgatory
Nope we don’t, maybe medium term. Fred, McSauce and Matic are adequate. Bit of a knee jerk post I believe, only my personal opinion.

CB priority followed by RW are definite requirements.
 

wolvored

Full Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
9,982
A DM who can tackle and pass, is positionally aware would transform our attack and midfield at the same time. We 'waste' 2 slots as Fred and McT aint consistently good enough to shield the defene on their own, or have the skillset to improve the attack. A DM would allow us to play/buy 2 attacking wing backs all the time and play an extra AM/CM. There are some names that are out there, but we are supposedly buying a young midfielder from Ecuador that can play this position.
 

andersj

Nick Powell Expert
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
4,342
Location
Copenhagen

Fred gets a lot of praise for his high energy. But sometimes he would do well to tone it down. Carrick, when explaining his role, talked about the importance of not getting draged wide.

In this situation we have two players out wide, leaving an open space inside the pitch for them to attack. Fred should have stayed inside and let Shaw deal with the the situation.
 

BenitoSTARR

One Minute Man
Scout
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
Messages
14,135

Fred gets a lot of praise for his high energy. But sometimes he would do well to tone it down. Carrick, when explaining his role, talked about the importance of not getting draged wide.

In this situation we have two players out wide, leaving an open space inside the pitch for them to attack. Fred should have stayed inside and let Shaw deal with the the situation.
However if he doesn’t support then Shaw goes too tight and is 2 on 1 with a wide option and Pogba has already let the man pass him so would you trust him to make the recovery run without fouling?

This has put Fred in a difficult position so it’s harsh to criticise him for his choice in that scenario as if he holds central Shaw is left up the swanny.
 

andersj

Nick Powell Expert
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
4,342
Location
Copenhagen
However if he doesn’t support then Shaw goes too tight and is 2 on 1 with a wide option and Pogba has already let the man pass him so would you trust him to make the recovery run without fouling?

This has put Fred in a difficult position so it’s harsh to criticise him for his choice in that scenario as if he holds central Shaw is left up the swanny.
When Shaw makes the tackle that sends the ball out wide to Justin, Fred is literally right next to Ayoze Perez (a space of max two feet between them). He should have stayed there (Pogba is a couple of yards higher up the pitch at this point in time). Instead he sprints out in the same direction Shaw is moving, leaving Perez open. If he had stayed, it would have been a one on one between Justin and Shaw (possibly with Pogba in support).

Look at Freds movement in the split second after the Shaw tackle. Perez continue into the box, so does Fred, then Fred decide to leave Perez in the box (!) to create a two (possibly three including Pogba) against one against Justin at the touchline.
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
53,436
Location
Hope, We Lose
Partey has hardly been a revelation for Arsenal. He isnt the type we're missing that will protect the back 4, hes another with pretty good attacking skills
 

Inigo Montoya

Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
38,543
Do Bayern really have space for him or need him? They seem quite stocked at CM/CDM positions.
Bayern have a policy of signing the best talent in the BL. I'd love to have Zakaria but for one he needs to prove that he's over his knee injuries, and he'l also be very coveted by a lot of clubs.

I do think we need to shift a few out before we can make this sort of signing.

PS it was tongue in cheek re Caicedo. He's definitely one for the future
 

FrankDrebin

Don't call me Shirley
Joined
Aug 25, 2019
Messages
20,824
Location
Police Squad
Supports
USA Manchester Red Socks
Dont get me wrong, as we're in desperate need for another CB and a midfielder but, as I said last night, you defend as a team and you attack as one. We're still neither in both.
I'm still yet to see a consistent solid structure in the team, and that's down to coaching and management.
 

Bwuk

Full Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
17,450
Yeah, bar Matic we don’t have one. Neither Fred or McTominay are DMs.
 

FrankDrebin

Don't call me Shirley
Joined
Aug 25, 2019
Messages
20,824
Location
Police Squad
Supports
USA Manchester Red Socks
Personally I've felt for a long, long time that United need someone in the mould of a Modric or peak Scholes. We dont have anyone who controls our games.

Maybe long-term Beek could be that guy, though.
 

Bwuk

Full Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
17,450
Personally I've felt for a long, long time that United need someone in the mould of a Modric or peak Scholes. We dont have anyone who controls our games.

Maybe long-term Beek could be that guy, though.
He's not got anywhere near the passing range of Scholes or Modric. Different type of player.
 

FrankDrebin

Don't call me Shirley
Joined
Aug 25, 2019
Messages
20,824
Location
Police Squad
Supports
USA Manchester Red Socks
He's not got anywhere near the passing range of Scholes or Modric. Different type of player.
Interms of his short passing game he could develop into that type of player but I agree he doesn't seem to have a eye for decisive long pass.
 

dev1l

Full Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
9,598
Interms of his short passing game he could develop into that type of player but I agree he doesn't seem to have a eye for decisive long pass.
Vdb looks good in working the ball in very tight spaces - like neat one twos around the penalty area.
He doesn't seem to have the vision of a playmaker who sprays the ball around
 

lex talionis

Full Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
14,312
The need for a beast DM is obvious. Matic can still put in a shift, but his legs need more and more rest.

Fred and Scott are more B2B than DM. Scott may not have been fit yesterday but if you watch his reaction to Barnes with the ball it was appalling. Fred is good on the ball in his own third, but he’s no destroyer.

Whether that DM should be more in the mold of Carrick or Keane is hard to say. If there’s a footballer out there who’s reasonably attainable who’s hand the player of either Carrick or Keane I say sign him up.
 

MikeKing

Full Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
5,125
Supports
Bournemouth

Fred gets a lot of praise for his high energy. But sometimes he would do well to tone it down. Carrick, when explaining his role, talked about the importance of not getting draged wide.

In this situation we have two players out wide, leaving an open space inside the pitch for them to attack. Fred should have stayed inside and let Shaw deal with the the situation.
That is horrible from Pogba. I missed that. That is unforgivable to not track that runner, if he is in that position he simply has to follow the man. It's what a team game is about. Horrible and he has done it too many times. He is such a frustrating player making these mistakes every game.
 

dev1l

Full Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
9,598
He’s no better than Fred imho. Typically overrated English player.
He s a different player. Rice can play the sitting midfielder role, Fred is not as good at that. Rice can also play at CB.

It s true s overrated but he s one of the best in his role in PL
 

saivet

Full Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
25,446
But if Pogba leaves why do we need one? Surely a creative playmaker who is solid defensively would be better than an out and out DM? Rice and Pogba sounds great. Rice and Fred/Mctominay not so much.
I don't think either of them should be our long term starting midfielders. While they are both competitive, I don't think either of them have the technical capacity to progress play from deep and I'm not confident that either of them are good enough to have any sort of creative responsibility. If we were to play a 433, then I could see a place for one of them in midfield but with Bruno, I don't see us going that way.
 

Red & White

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2017
Messages
479
I’d love to see a world class DM brought in at some point as it would make a huge difference in certain games to allow us to have an extra player going forward. It’s odd how we set up quite defensively in a lot of games with the personnel yet we still create a decent amount of chances. how much better could we be if we had an extra attacking player or a player who could dictate the tempo from midfield like we’ve been blessed with in years gone by.
 

andersj

Nick Powell Expert
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
4,342
Location
Copenhagen
That is horrible from Pogba. I missed that. That is unforgivable to not track that runner, if he is in that position he simply has to follow the man. It's what a team game is about. Horrible and he has done it too many times. He is such a frustrating player making these mistakes every game.
Looks like that on the pictures, but Pogba stops tracking Perez when Fred is «on him». Really not Pogbas fault at all. Made no sense for Pogba to continue his run considering Freds movement.
 

RedBanker

I love you Ole
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
2,696
Partey has hardly been a revelation for Arsenal. He isnt the type we're missing that will protect the back 4, hes another with pretty good attacking skills
Just watch their last game against us. Partey was the best player on the pitch. He ran through our midfield one several occasions and broke up quite a few of our moves. Our entire midfield was dwarfed by that guy.
 

Gerald G

Full Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
7,546
Location
Wardrobe.
Hojbjerg looks like a coup for Spurs. He really looks like he could have done the job for us and affordable.
 

Green_Red

New Member
Joined
May 29, 2013
Messages
10,296
No surprise a lot of shite being talked in this thread about a position we have 3 capable players in. Next week it'll be a different position and a different player being called out as not being good enough.
 

Lennon7

nipple flasher and door destroyer
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
10,480
Location
M5
£85 million for Rice!? Is that how much they would want?

He’s not worth half of that.
Think it was around that when Chelsea were interested - and to be fair it’s what you’d expect for a young English talent now a days.
 

Lennon7

nipple flasher and door destroyer
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
10,480
Location
M5
No surprise a lot of shite being talked in this thread about a position we have 3 capable players in. Next week it'll be a different position and a different player being called out as not being good enough.
We don’t have a proper DM mate. Besides Matic who’s fecked.
 

Hammondo

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Messages
7,001
Our MF has been the main issue for me for a while.

The players we have a reactionary. They don't seem to read the game like a carrick or keane or scholes.

In many games I feel the opposition walks through our MF quite easily.

The defence is constantly under the kosh as the ball gets back to our half too quickly. Our forwards don't hold the ball well. Even today you saw an attack from a Bruno mistake.
There is a lot of pressure on our midfield and defence due to how poorly our forwards hold onto the ball. A CDM would hopefully distribute the ball to make it easy on our forwards, but somehow our forwards would find a way to lose but quickly m
 

RUCK4444

New Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
9,553
Location
$¥$¥$¥$¥$
He s a different player. Rice can play the sitting midfielder role, Fred is not as good at that. Rice can also play at CB.

It s true s overrated but he s one of the best in his role in PL
Yeah agree different players just think that comparatively Fred is better in the tackle and Rice isn’t exactly exceptional at playing it forward. He’s decent but nothing special imo.

On the other hand Bissouma for Brighton is playing against West Ham now and looks decent for a fraction of the price no doubt.

He’s played some nice forward passes and won the ball.