VAR and Refs | General Discussion

[Mb194dc]

Absolutely criminal. Still fuming. Match bought and paid for.

Spurs been getting +VE VAR descisions since the Lo Celso leg breaker stamp in 2020.

It's pretty laughable, we already had it this season as well with the Cucu hair pull.

They need to pay for the stadium and it's brand boosting. That's where it comes from imo.

Liverpool also seem to get very favourable calls endlessly.

 

[Anustart89]

There weren’t any!

VAR had one job in that situation. To ensure that a perfectly legitimate goal stood. Failing that, it could have made the ref look at the shove that unbalanced Mitoma before he played the ball. One job and it fecked it up.

The problem is that the linesman flagged and had the goal disallowed for handball before it went to VAR, which means that the burden of proof is on VAR to show that handball was a clear and obvious error, and I can understand that it's not satisfied that criterion since it looks like it touches him on the sleeve (sleeve is part of the arm, handball starts at the armpit despite people using the sleeve to determine handball which isn't correct).

The accidental attacking handball law is an absolute clusterfeck though, Romero clearly pushed him into that position, and he could even have taken Mitoma's arm, held on to it for three seconds and guided it onto the ball deliberately and that would've meant that the goal was disallowed as well.

 

[klayton88]

Watching MOTD. Brighton got shafted multiple times by VAR today.

 

[RyRy11]

Looking at it on MOTD Mitoma's goal was a handball, you can argue a potential pen but that would be harsh. Stonewall penalty mind.

 

[Salt Bailly]

You know VAR have fecked up when even Danny Murphy is calling it out as total incompetence.

 

[Lost bear]

Spurs been getting +VE VAR descisions since the Lo Celso leg breaker stamp in 2020.

It's pretty laughable, we already had it this season as well with the Cucu hair pull.

They need to pay for the stadium and it's brand boosting. That's where it comes from imo.

Liverpool also seem to get very favourable calls endlessly.

Yeah I've just seen the MotD highlights of Tottenham's game- Brighton were absolutely ripped off there. Terrible SERIES of decisions. VAR, referee and lines person all got it obviously wrong. No wonder the manager was unhappy . Jesus!

 

[van Nistelrooy]

Looking at it on MOTD Mitoma's goal was a handball, you can argue a potential pen but that would be harsh. Stonewall penalty mind.

The ball was controlled above the t-shirt line. Even if the arm moved towards the ball to control it, how can that possibly be handball?

Brighton were robbed of two goals (Welbeck's goal came off Mc Allister's hip, not hand) and a stonewall penalty.

 

[Anustart89]

The ball was controlled above the t-shirt line. Even if the arm moved towards the ball to control it, how can that possibly be handball?

Brighton were robbed of two goals (Welbeck's goal came off Mc Allister's hip, not hand) and a stonewall penalty.

The t-shirt line is not what is used to judge handball. That's a common misconception.

 

[Messier1994]

I think refereeing has become worse since the introduction of VAR. I think there is a lot of confusion around it. Referees seem to be relying on it, but it is not reliable.

They say that they want to keep the decisions in the hand of the ref, but they don't do that at all. If the VAR doesn't refer the ref, he doesn't ever get to see it again; this makes it the decision of the VAR instead.

It has also led to rules becoming over-complicated; there seem to be far more changes than there used to be. The rules don't even make sense anymore.

I just don't think it works. Bring in automated offsides, keep goal line technology and just scrap the rest of VAR.

Anyone with half a brain understand that there is only one way to use VAR -- and that is not Howard Webb's current path.

When VAR first came, the rules were applied, and people thought that there were too many penalties. To reduce this problem, they didn't change the rules, but instead came up with the brilliant idea to only use VAR if there is a "clear and obvious" error.

In practice, this means that if a ref incorrectly calls a penalty on one side of the pitch for an uber soft shirt pull, it can be reviewed by VAR and stand because it wasn't a clear and obvious mistake, and then 5 minutes later on the other side of the pitch, VAR can review a much worse shirt pull and not award a penalty if the ref missed it, because it wasn't a clear and obvious mistake. And the worst part is perhaps that there is no guidence whatsoever that makes sense on what is 'clear and obvious'. Why was the yellow card on Casemiro such a clear and obvious mistake that they ref had to overturn it and give it a red? Its ridiculous.

Right when Howard Webb took over PGMOL before this season started, he made clear that he was going to put the on-field referee at the center of the stage. Listening to him talk, its just downright absurd. A football game isn't about the referee. One rule book shouldn't apply one game and another rule book the next game -- just because one of these clowns get a feeling for it. But Webb sees the referee as a 'producer' of the game, he wants the guy in black to be like Tarentino or Spielberg or George Lucas or whatever.

If nobody wants the game riddled with soft penalties -- then make that the rules and apply it to everyone. How hard can it be?

And how f***ing absurd is it that the guy on the pitch goes out and watch a monitor.

Sure, there will -- always -- be controversies and no system will ever (even remotely) be perfect. But its just so obvious how these clowns don't understand how extremely frustrating it is for fans when the reffing is extremely inconsistent -- despite them getting to watch it in slow-motion from 100 different angles.

 

[RyRy11]

The ball was controlled above the t-shirt line. Even if the arm moved towards the ball to control it, how can that possibly be handball?

Brighton were robbed of two goals (Welbeck's goal came off Mc Allister's hip, not hand) and a stonewall penalty.

Because the rule according to IFAB states "the arm ‘starts’ at the bottom of the armpit and not the ‘T’ shirt sleeve line." The other disallowed goal was harsh and the Mitoma should have had a penalty like you said. Possibly another with the pull on Dunk's shirt.

 

[van Nistelrooy]

The t-shirt line is not what is used to judge handball. That's a common misconception.

Upon investigating the FA's rulebook, moving your arm towards the ball or making yourself bigger using the arm constitues a handball. Therefore, it probably was correctly ruled out.

I stick with Welbeck's goal and Mitoma's penalty appeal both being complete howlers by VAR.

 

[Chief123]

The ball was controlled above the t-shirt line. Even if the arm moved towards the ball to control it, how can that possibly be handball?

Brighton were robbed of two goals (Welbeck's goal came off Mc Allister's hip, not hand) and a stonewall penalty.

Yep just seen it again on MOTD. Both disallowed goals shouldn’t have been disallowed. 2 blatant penalties VAR has completely missed for Brighton. That’s 4 goal moments that Brighton have been truly shafted by sheer incompetence.

 

[van Nistelrooy]

Because the rule according to IFAB states "the arm ‘starts’ at the bottom of the armpit and not the ‘T’ shirt sleeve line." The other disallowed goal was harsh and the Mitoma should have had a penalty like you said. Possibly another with the pull on Dunk's shirt.

Agreed. I think the Dunk penalty appeal should have been given too, but officiating on shirt pulling changes as much as the wind. Harry Maguire could have been penalised for using both hands to pull back Demari Gray in the box today.

 

[TheGodsInRed]

Anyone with half a brain understand that there is only one way to use VAR -- and that is not Howard Webb's current path.

When VAR first came, the rules were applied, and people thought that there were too many penalties. To reduce this problem, they didn't change the rules, but instead came up with the brilliant idea to only use VAR if there is a "clear and obvious" error.

In practice, this means that if a ref incorrectly calls a penalty on one side of the pitch for an uber soft shirt pull, it can be reviewed by VAR and stand because it wasn't a clear and obvious mistake, and then 5 minutes later on the other side of the pitch, VAR can review a much worse shirt pull and not award a penalty if the ref missed it, because it wasn't a clear and obvious mistake. And the worst part is perhaps that there is no guidence whatsoever that makes sense on what is 'clear and obvious'. Why was the yellow card on Casemiro such a clear and obvious mistake that they ref had to overturn it and give it a red? Its ridiculous.

Right when Howard Webb took over PGMOL before this season started, he made clear that he was going to put the on-field referee at the center of the stage. Listening to him talk, its just downright absurd. A football game isn't about the referee. One rule book shouldn't apply one game and another rule book the next game -- just because one of these clowns get a feeling for it. But Webb sees the referee as a 'producer' of the game, he wants the guy in black to be like Tarentino or Spielberg or George Lucas or whatever.

If nobody wants the game riddled with soft penalties -- then make that the rules and apply it to everyone. How hard can it be?

And how f***ing absurd is it that the guy on the pitch goes out and watch a monitor.

Sure, there will -- always -- be controversies and no system will ever (even remotely) be perfect. But its just so obvious how these clowns don't understand how extremely frustrating it is for fans when the reffing is extremely inconsistent -- despite them getting to watch it in slow-motion from 100 different angles.

Yeah the clear and obvious thing is clearly bollocks.
I think I would be better to just have the 3 var refs each vote if they think it is a penalty/red card etc. and if two of them have a different opinion to the ref then the ref goes and checks it. If all three think the ref is wrong to save time it should just reverse the decision.

Also, if they can't make their mind up in 2 mins, then go with the on field decision.

 

[Chief123]

How is shearer claiming the penalty against Isak was a bad var decision? Isak kicks him in the chest?!

 

[Doracle]

If it's going to be a shit as it has been, then get rid of it!

Sack the current VaR officials, change the rules to get rid of the clear and obvious error wording and find some ex pros who are happy to sit in a room and watch each match on TV - have two of them watching and if both agree it’s the wrong decision, send it back to the the ref.

 

[kouroux]

Yeah the clear and obvious thing is clearly bollocks.
I think I would be better to just have the 3 var refs each vote if they think it is a penalty/red card etc. and if two of them have a different opinion to the ref then the ref goes and checks it. If all three think the ref is wrong to save time it should just reverse the decision.

Also, if they can't make their mind up in 2 mins, then go with the on field decision.

It gives them cover to justify some of their decisions. They protect each other instead of making the game better and fairer

 

[bleedred]

For anyone hoping that VAR will improve if it had competent people managing are in for a shock.

The problems we see every week, not just in PL, but also in every other leagues were foreseen and predicted by many long before its implementation.

They just thought we will implement and resolve problems as we go along. And that's exactly what's happening. How many times have the handball rules changed in the past few years to accommodate for VAR. It's an absolute farce and should have never been in place. We keep getting as many talking points/bad decisions pre var and there isn't a single game week where it's not in the headlines. Burn it down, I say!

 

[Suedesi]

I honestly think the goal Mitoma had disallowed for “handball” was an even worse decision. Especially when you consider the two handed shove he got in the back before playing the ball (with his shoulder)

That was infuriating. Mitoma gets a shove from Romero in the area, still manages to control the ball with his shoulder, scores a goal and it gets called off for "handball". VAR does the cowardly thing of 'no clear and obvious error' and sides with the ref.

I said it in the game thread, once it's a coincidence, twice it's extremely unlucky but three wrong major decisions is a pattern. That was corruption, plain and simple

 

[kouroux]

That was infuriating. Mitoma gets a shove from Romero in the area, still manages to control the ball with his shoulder, scores a goal and it gets called off for "handball". VAR does the cowardly thing of 'no clear and obvious error' and sides with the ref.

I said it in the game thread, once it's a coincidence, twice it's extremely unlucky but three wrong major decisions is a pattern. That was corruption, plain and simple

Do they even have enough RAM in their brains to look at the Romero shove if they're solely focused on the handball part of the sequence ?

 

[The Boy]

That was infuriating. Mitoma gets a shove from Romero in the area, still manages to control the ball with his shoulder, scores a goal and it gets called off for "handball". VAR does the cowardly thing of 'no clear and obvious error' and sides with the ref.

I said it in the game thread, once it's a coincidence, twice it's extremely unlucky but three wrong major decisions is a pattern. That was corruption, plain and simple

It really does feel like corruption. I can not believe Brighton could be so badly robbed.

The Mac Allister one I can understand, the Mitoma handball should have been a goal but maybe there was a mistake.

The penalty though was as clear as day and to have all 3 happen in one game is just unbelievable. And it’s not the first time this season.

But to make up for it, we’ll probably get another apology from Howard Webb during the week, fecking tw*ts.

 

[Jeppers7]

It can seem like a conspiracy when the terrible decisions exclusively happen in the bigger (home) side’s favour. I’m not talking today about soft corners, or lots of cheap freekicks. I’m talking about five major game-changing decisions - three of them behind dispute for even the most ardent opposition - plus the soft corners and cheap freekicks.

If you saw the match today at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, every neutral would cringe.

It was corruption.

I feel for you. I’d have been livid if that was united today.

 

[kps88]

I think they give too much importance to the on field decision when it comes time to review.

Also, refs should be sent to the monitor to genuinely have a second look when VAR aren't completely sure, not just to make a show of it when they've already been told they should overturn their decision.

But both the above points are dependent on refs being humble enough to admit mistakes and not let their ego come in the way.

 

[justboy68]

The clear and obvious bollocks has to go.

 

[thegregster]

How is shearer claiming the penalty against Isak was a bad var decision? Isak kicks him in the chest?!

To put pressure on officials when Newcastle are playing. It's an abuse of his position as a MOTD pundit.

 

[Samid]

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[duffer]

If they don't explain the reasoning for making the decision, the statement "we made a mistake" is kinda worthless.

 

[Sylar]

This just makes var completely pointless then. Which I believe is what the refs want so that they can have less consequences for making obvious mistakes

Var is meant to help the refs but it's pointless when we have Webb trying to make var different to the rest of Europe and still have the useless refs in charge of var

 

[top1whoisman]

”This is the third apology Brighton have been given by PGMOL this season for decisions made on the field.”

Speaks volumes about the quality of refereeing in the PL.

 

[Shane88]

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And?

Them admitting it was a mistake and doing feck all every time is just more aggravating to fans.

 

[Mb194dc]

How many mistakes in favour of Spurs and Liverpool, it's absolutely ludicrous.

I thought Newcastle were very unlucky with the second Pen as well.

At least it looks like Webb is trying to sort it out.

 

[Pexbo]

How many mistakes in favour of Spurs and Liverpool, it's absolutely ludicrous.

I thought Newcastle were very unlucky with the second Pen as well.

At least it looks like Webb is trying to sort it out.

How is Webb trying to sort it out? On the contrary I’d say his fingerprints are all over the worst of refereeing right now.

 

[Mb194dc]

How is Webb trying to sort it out? On the contrary I’d say his fingerprints are all over the worst of refereeing right now.

He's admitted the problem and sacked those responsible. What else can he do in a few months?

I reckon next season it'll be much better. There's institutional bias in some of the refs left over from Mike Riley.

Once they're out, things will improve.

 

[Doracle]

Yeah, Webb is going completely the wrong way. The focus should be on ensuring that the correct decisions are made, not in protecting the decision of the refs on the pitch. If it takes a little longer to get decisions right, then get it done properly.

 

[Fergies Gum]

When will clubs/managers be brave enough to come out and demand this joke of a system be scrapped.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

I think the obvious solution is to move to a challenge system. There’s just far too much happening in a football game to be constantly re reffing it from the box. Give them 2 challenges a game and once a team uses it the VAR looks at all angles and then makes a decision while talking like in other sports . There will still be mistakes but it will take out the whole this wasn’t checked element and I think that like Rugby if you had a VAR taking time looking at the same angles as us and explaining what they are seeing it will make things better

 

[mav_9me]

”This is the third apology Brighton have been given by PGMOL this season for decisions made on the field.”

Speaks volumes about the quality of refereeing in the PL.

This is with VAR. After the incident video review. Video fecking review and they have to apologize 3 times.

 

[top1whoisman]

This is with VAR. After the incident video review. Video fecking review and they have to apologize 3 times.

Video Assistant Refereeing. They are refs doing refereeing.

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

My solutions:

1. Scrap VAR. Was the game so bad before it? Yes, there were occasional howlers but most fans, players and pundits were reasonable enough to forgive on field mistakes given the speed of the game. Now officials are getting slow motion replays from multiple angles and they're STILL making howlers! That's a lot harder to take.

2. Seeing that "1" is unlikely to happen any time soon, propose having 3 VAR officials independent of one another at each game. If 2 out of 3 refer the ref to an on field error, then he must check it. There will still be howlers but surely not as many (surely?!)

3. A bugbear of mine, get rid of those fecking lines and dots for checking offside. It seems so arbitrary, the VAR official just seems to pull a line out of his arse and place it wherever on the screen will give him the outcome he wants. The offside check should just be a 10 second "naked eye" check. If VAR guy cannot clearly identify an offside with the naked eye after 10 seconds, the goal stands. Was someone's bootlace being possibly, maybe, a millimetre offside really a problem that technology needed to be introduced?!

4. Stop disallowing goals for accidental and totally unavoidable "handballs" where a ball ricochets off a striker's tucked-in arm from point blank range in the build up. Again, where was the clamour for this rule to be introduced?!

 

[Pexbo]

I think the obvious solution is to move to a challenge system. There’s just far too much happening in a football game to be constantly re reffing it from the box. Give them 2 challenges a game and once a team uses it the VAR looks at all angles and then makes a decision while talking like in other sports . There will still be mistakes but it will take out the whole this wasn’t checked element and I think that like Rugby if you had a VAR taking time looking at the same angles as us and explaining what they are seeing it will make things better

A challenge system with an explanation of the decision.