This is what I was trying to say in the match day thread. It's definitely a penalty but Martial exaggerates the contact a bit too.
One of those though where if Young does nothing Martial goes through and could well end up scoring anyway.
VAR and Refs | General Discussion
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One of those though where if Young does nothing Martial goes through and could well end up scoring anyway.
Clear foul on Allison. Dunno what Pep complained about.
Akanji touched GK' shoulders with force. Wouldn't been a foul if that was a defender but you can't do that to GK.
Akanji touched GK' shoulders with force. Wouldn't been a foul if that was a defender but you can't do that to GK.
Fixed.
I actually like that the ref gave Everton a free kick, if he thought he saw Martial dive then bravo for having the guts to make that call. It's the exact scenario that VAR was made for and they got the decision 100% correct in the end.
I don't even go along with the idea that Martial initiates the contact... looks like he's just running normally and Young trips him before he manages to pull his foot away.
Penalty all day long.
Penalty all day long.
I have no issue with the process here at all. I hate VAR but this is one where it 'works'. Ref thought it was a dive live, gave a yellow - correct call.
Turns out he's human and he was mistaken. VAR says you'll want to flip that decision mate.
He does - all good.
Turns out he's human and he was mistaken. VAR says you'll want to flip that decision mate.
He does - all good.
it was disgusting that the ref reached for yellow for Martial even though it was very obvious penalty. He should have seen a pen that obvious but the first thought in his mind was that Martial was faking it. It is caused by bias against United players and against United, in general, perpetrated by media bs
Yeah it's a good example of VAR working well.
I initially thought it was a dive in real time (I was conned by the way Young pulled his leg back) - but then you watch it back and it isn't, so yeah, penalty.
I mean that's a bit much don't you think? Or he just thought it was a dive (like I did initially), and so had to give a yellow card? Not everything is a giant conspiracy.
I don't think VAR can just overturn a penalty call without the ref going to the monitor to confirm. It's what Dyche was correctly moaning about afterwards regarding VAR, if a decision needs overturning just tell the ref rather than waste more time.
There really shouldn't be any decision where a ref needs to go to a monitor, if it's a subjective debatable call then just go with the onfield decision, whereas when a ref goes to the monitor in these cases (e.g. the Rashford red recently) 99% they overturn their original decision because they are now under pressure to agree with the VAR which then just creates more debate and anger amongst players, managers, fans and pundits alike. If it's clear and fecking obvious then just tell the ref ffs. They're just not doing themselves any favours with the protocols.
I just want to go on the record and say I would have only been mildly annoyed if VAR didn’t exist and Martial’s penalty wasn’t given. It was a tight call and difficult to get right in real time. I’d feel bummed out but understand why we were hard done by. Not even close to the gut clenching rage I feel when VAR gets involved and still makes the wrong (or, at least, debatable) decision. And that’s the fundamental flaw of the whole poxy thing from a fan’s perspective. It makes us feel much more pissed off about refereeing over the season than we ever did before.
Yeah, exactly. And Martial definitely made a meal of the contact. You can see why the ref thought he had dived.
All good but not even close to making up for all the VAR bollox inflicted on us (and fans of other clubs) this season.
I mean, I may be wearing my tin foil hat a lot
but media does love to make shit up about United because it sells clicks well, us having the largest international group of supporters (and haters) which you could argue then affects refs and judges as well. The amount of shit decisions we have been getting is pretty ridiculousDermot Gallagher reluctantly admitting our penalty yesterday was correct
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What a bizarre argument Gallagher makes at the end. Young maybe shouldn't have been sent off because Martial initially got a yellow and it would be too much of a swing. Making it up as they go.
Yeah weird argument.
I don't think it should have been a second yellow as it was just a mis-timmed trip and there was a covering defender, so not sure why he couldn't just say something along the lines of "not every foul in the box has to be a booking".
Young is challenging for the ball, albeit badly. Not a deliberate trip but it's a foul and a pen.
Not a red because he's trying to get the ball.
I thought var got the City disallowed goal wrong. No reason for var to get involved at all there. Also need see the Dunk foul again. Not sure about that.
Not a red because he's trying to get the ball.
I thought var got the City disallowed goal wrong. No reason for var to get involved at all there. Also need see the Dunk foul again. Not sure about that.
Not every foul is a booking but if a simple trip on the halfway line is a yellow for stopping a promising attack with half the team behind him (the so-called tactical foul), then surely tripping someone who’s breaking into the box right down the middle is a yellow going by the same rule book. There are multiple reasons for being booked, and careless tackles are one which the tackle wasn’t, but stopping a promising attack is another criterion which was clearly fulfilled here.
I feel like tactical fouls are a booking for the cynical intention more then anything - but yeah, obviously there's a clear argument for it being a second yellow. I just think the fact that it's in the box so he did obviously think he could win the ball, then tried to retract his foot (but was just too late in doing so) + a second Everton defender being right there to challenge Martial next makes no second yellow an OK call for me.
I am not sure how this work - but can you give Young a yellow ? Isn't the principle that you can only give a red card using VAR ? You can rescind yellows, but not give yellow based on VAR ?
Must admit I am not sure here
Must admit I am not sure here
You can absolutely give Yellow's.
Once you've had a VAR review and gone to the screen, you can do whatever you want (award, not award, rescind a card, upgrade a car, downgrade a card etc.)
The "simple trip" on the halfway line is only a booking if they don't make any attempt to play the ball. Young was clearly trying to win the ball but Martial was too quick for him. That wouldn't have been a yellow card anywhere else on the pitch and shouldn't have been one in that scenario either.
Very reasonable take. When Young makes the challenge that was really Martial's only play - he was impeded so the scoring chance he could have had was no more, so he might as well maximize his chances of being awarded a pen. He did it badly though and got booked for diving
If it had been a "promising attack" (highly subjective, obviously) it would've been a yellow for stopping a promising attack, regardless of the intent to win the ball or not (see below).
Anyway, I was going to dive into the laws of the game to prove you wrong, and then I noticed this law change ahead of this season (you could've told me about the amendment straight away ffs!)
https://www.theifab.com/law-changes/latest/ Link to the law being clarified ahead of this season.
So it turns out that if the referee awards a penalty for a tackle that's an attempt to play the ball, then the sanction gets downgraded one step (ie from red to yellow if Denying an Obvious Goalscoring Opportunity, or from yellow to no yellow if stopping a promising attack (since the promising attack hasn't been stopped by the awarding of a penalty, I'm assuming).
VAR absolute hate Wolves.
Clear pen to me?
Second one was.
Don't think the first one was at all. Also Fulham should have been down to 10 men
Ah, missed that. Poor Wolves.
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Wolves have really had it rough this year. The Onana penalty, the Schar decision, the Luton handball and the first penalty today are absolute shockers. And great to see O’Neil making it clear that he wouldn’t be acting like Arteta despite all this. Big club privilege has been cleverly exploited by Arsenal and Liverpool while Wolves have suffered the most.
so another PGMOL apology and the refs dropped for next game on the way
It's unreal how many calls went against Wolves, the one that made the biggest noise was Onana clattering into player who wasn't even playing the ball. There were so many blatant calls that went against them.
Well of couse he didn't - it's not his job in that scenario, his job is to advise the ref he might have gotten it wrong
Time to tale your rose-tinted conspiracy theory glasses off, if he was biased he could have refused to change his decision, but he did
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And yet if they don't go to the monitor then everyone will say that VAR is making the decision not the onfield ref, can't win
The Onana one was never in a million years a penalty, it was an accidental collision and as the VAR stated in the audio they dont give penalties for those plus at the point of the collision the ball had already been headed back in to the middle and the player Onana collided with wasnt even the player who headed it so it would have been absolutely ridiculous to give a penalty for that.
Somehow VAR just seems to get worse despite all the error and trial. Kinda feel sorry for Wolves with all the VAR inept decision going against them this season. They're low key doing quite well and should have been in the mix fighting for European football spot.
Yeah this is where I'm at with VAR. I don't mind the odd tight call being wrongly given in real time, but they've got this new technology that has taken the spontaneity of celebrating goals away from us. The only upside is that you'd expect decisions to be correct most, if not all of the time and yet they're not even doing that.
Don't agree at all. It was as blatant as it comes.