Thank you. Somehow the original violence gets lost in all this. I hope we find some grounds for appeal. We don't employ a legal team for nothing.Schlupp’s behavior is what Violent Conduct means to define. He did it and walked away as if nothing happened. It’s as same as maniacs intentionally pushed innocent people to the New York City subway track and walked away.
It’s so dumb. A ref squinting at a Tv screen showing only one angle, for a second or two, then making a decision. The whole point of video refereeing is to use as many angles as possible and make a decision based on the totality of evidence. Look at the way it’s used in rugby. That’s how you use video evidence.One of the obvious flaws the current way to run var is that only some angled views are sent to referee to examine pitch side. I guess two are the max. In this situation, they only sent one. Really poor and it’s like intentional manipulation.
I wouldn't say it is about moaning. It is only to show how we have been treated and give fact. He answer was great today. Just like that. He just need to point out that we are having different rules. That somehow are negative towards us a lot of times.Well, obviously but if we fight back he'll be perceived as classless or whatever, somebody making excuses, trying to affect the refs, lacking focus and generally being made an example out of by the f.a. It's not like we only have to moan at the refs and suddenly we get favourable or fair decisions.
Thought I'd never say it but when looking at it in real time it doesnt really look as a red card. Its 2 seconds and doesnt even seem harmful in any way. Hughes would probably had reacted more if it was too.
Better he misses lesser games. Furthermore they'll probably try to find a reason to ban a couple of our other players.Can we appeal?
You're also forgetting how the same referee who was doing all that during the game didn't think that the handball where Hughes blatantly had his arm above his head wasn't a penalty, and which wouldn't have been a penalty had VAR not been forced to give it through sheer embarrassment at not giving such a blatant decision.How bad does this get before they will start investigating it suspending referees?
The Casemiro red card is very suspicious on its own to me because there is no decision to make in the first place. They've just invented one and then fitted the rules around it, again. It's not a mistake it's literally using VAR to try and dictate the outcome of games by retrofitting the rules around the decision you've pre decided you want to make. No one watches that back and sees a red card unless they WANT to find a red card.
In the same game you have the ref completely inventing a foul against the team reduced to 10 men when they are through on goal.
You have him elbowing one of their players in the face to set up a counter attack for the opposition, and then attempting to play on and pretend he didn't notice (sorry but what the actual feck?)
Then you have him inventing 7 minutes of added time out of nothing.
In any other sport if the officials behaved like this they would be suspended and investigated. Imagine a boxing ref accidentally smacking one of the boxers in the side of the head mid round and then trying to pretend nothing happened, or deducting points from the same fighter for things that never happened. The fight would get called off.
It's honestly at a point where you have to be in denial or just completely fecking stupid not to think something is seriously up or needs sorting out.
I mean today was a complete and utter farce but it's hardly a one off. It's been a weekly event in the PL and FA Cup for well over a year now. Its not even the most farcical or suspicious of recent weeks, after the Liverpool game where they invented a way to not apply the offside rule to one team, then we were meant to believe that all the TV cameras at the same time mysteriously forgot to watch the game when a goal was inexplicably ruled out for offside for the other team.
I mean come on now. There's stuff you can explain away as mistakes, there's stuff that's explainable as gross incompetence (well until it keeps happening and no one does anything about it), and then there's just taking people for complete idiots.
There are only two possible explanations for why giving referees access to video technology would make then worse at their jobs. The first is that they're utterly incompetent and need to be sacked, and the second is that they're not incompetent and are getting things wrong on purpose, and at this point the first of those explanations is getting hard to find plausible as if that was the case someone would have noticed and sacked them by now.
The ref invented 7 minutes of added time for the incident so had plenty of time to look at all the angles if he had wanted to. Intentional manipulation is exactly what it is and managers, players etc. really need to start calling it out for what it is as that's the only way it's going to stop.It’s so dumb. A ref squinting at a Tv screen showing only one angle, for a second or two, then making a decision. The whole point of video refereeing is to use as many angles as possible and make a decision based on the totality of evidence. Look at the way it’s used in rugby. That’s how you use video evidence.
Of course, rugby is a game with so many stoppages it suits video input on big decisions. Football doesn’t. So we’re left with this half arsed shambles. When the sport was much better off before it was introduced.
Well yeah, but no matter how ridiculous it gets people just want to believe these are all coincidental mistakes and that it's all down to utterly inexplicable incompetence, which apparently no one can do anything about. Like, if you're in charge of the officiating, you for some unknown reason can't just hire people who aren't astonishingly useless at being referees, or replace people who repeatedly demonstrate they don't know how to do their job, with people who do.You're also forgetting how the same referee who was doing all that during the game didn't think that the handball where Hughes blatantly had his arm above his head wasn't a penalty, and which wouldn't have been a penalty had VAR not been forced to give it through sheer embarrassment at not giving such a blatant decision.
Yesterday? . It sounds like you only watched Friday's game. Because yesterday was full of refereering crimes.Few players could have had reds in the Utd Melee. Aggressively putting your hands on shirt collar, neck or in someone's face usually a red.
Plenty of refereeing crimes this season, not yesterday though.
The fecking balls of a Chelsea fan to say this! It seemed you were involved in mass brawls every other week for a while and have neither side receive a red!Few players could have had reds in the Utd Melee. Aggressively putting your hands on shirt collar, neck or in someone's face usually a red.
Plenty of refereeing crimes this season, not yesterday though.
Have you ever tried being a referee? I have refereed underage football matches a few times. If more football fans did this you’d get a much more informed discussion here. Onfield referees makes mistakes because they’re human and because it’s a very difficult job. They don’t get replays. They often see incidents from difficult angles. Everything happens very quickly and they’re making decisions based on something that happened in a fraction of a second. And PL referees are doing this with footballer who have made cheating and deliberately deceiving them an art form.Had a look through some weekend game highlights.
This week, the on-field referees missed a blatant handball (VAR overruled and gave a pen), a ball blatantly over the line for Newcastle's goal (VAR overruled and chalked off the goal), a blatant penalty for Bournemouth (VAR didn't give anything) and made a sensible 2 yellows decision in a brawl (VAR overruled).
The Bournemouth mistake is typical of VAR since they started scaling it back - letting an on-field mistake slide for no good reason.
I'd say the Casemiro red is 50-50 - remembering the "slap" on VIdic that got Drogba sent off in the final, I don't think it was any worse than what Casemiro did, and if the ref did see those few seconds directly, I think he's giving the red. It's also a strange one because VAR overrules are so rare nowadays.
To sum up, in all 3 games, the on-field referees made big mistakes. VAR corrected a few but not all, and added a controversial (but by no means blatantly wrong) decision to this mix.
In this rush to crucify VAR, which has been increasingly hobbled by wanting to appease those who dislike it, it seems everyone has forgotten how fecking terrible on-field referees are. They miss half the game, what they do see, there is NO BASIS for most calls, they're blatantly called by gut feeling or match situation or not wanting to make a tough call.
No better example than the Sabitzer "foul" - a product of an on-field ref that didn't want the game to become an anti-climax. We'd go back to that vibes-based refereeing for every penalty and red card without VAR.
I was so mad when the ref blew his whistle for thisLadies and gents, this is a foul.
Couldn't believe it when I saw it and even more puzzled having watched it again. Genuinely one of the most baffling calls of the season.
Ladies and gents, this is a foul.
It doesn't help their case when they've spent years helping those same footballers improve their cheating by actually not punishing them for obvious things even though the yellow cards for cheating were invented for years, and hardly any ref uses it. Just 12 yellows in entire last season and half of that was for Everton players. I am sure United player deserved at least 5.And PL referees are doing this with footballer who have made cheating and deliberately deceiving them an art form.
The singling out of one player in a melee where a ‘few could’ve seen red’, slowing down footage on a loop of one angle which seriously misrepresented the actual incident and made it look like something it wasn’t, ignoring the aggressive foul and behaviour of the player that led to the incident as well as ignoring other incidents of actual violent conduct that were worse than holding somebody’s shirt collar….Is fineFew players could have had reds in the Utd Melee. Aggressively putting your hands on shirt collar, neck or in someone's face usually a red.
Plenty of refereeing crimes this season, not yesterday though.
They should if possible, even the cast on MOTD thought it was ridiculous.I think United should appeal. That’s such a soft red
Agree its slowed down to look like he's throttled him , and its far from it, another angle his hands are on his shirt. Appeal it and the FA will give him 4 games because they can, they never admit they get things wrong, if you use the law correctly in that mele all of them should have been sent off.Thought I'd never say it but when looking at it in real time it doesnt really look as a red card. Its 2 seconds and doesnt even seem harmful in any way. Hughes would probably had reacted more if it was too.
In slow motion everything looks dramatic. In this case 10 x more dramatic
I agree it's very difficult* and most mistakes are things they don't see clearly or at all. That's why they make up what happened, including in many match-changing cases. And I think because of that, especially as the game gets faster, that VAR is necessary.Have you ever tried being a referee? I have refereed underage football matches a few times. If more football fans did this you’d get a much more informed discussion here. Onfield referees makes mistakes because they’re human and because it’s a very difficult job. They don’t get replays. They often see incidents from difficult angles. Everything happens very quickly and they’re making decisions based on something that happened in a fraction of a second. And PL referees are doing this with footballer who have made cheating and deliberately deceiving them an art form.
It’s the inability of fans to accept this fact that has inflicted VAR on us..And we’re left feeling a far greater sense of injustice because it’s failing at its intended purpose of correcting these occasional, inevitable mistakes. And when decisions go against you that can’t be attributed to an honest mistake you’re bound to feel a hell of a lot more aggrieved.
The main thing for me, that has been a big advocate for VAR, is that it hasn’t even done the most important thing which is eliminate thuggish behaviour on the pitch, and protecting players by deterring shithouse tackles. Instead they let Fabinho take out a young talent with a horrible tackle and let him get away with a yellow card due to the arbitrary bar set for intervening. Andy Carroll had one mission against us and that was to attempt to injure as many players as he possibly could. He sent Eriksen to the treatment room for two months and didn’t get properly punished until he made another two thuggish tackles, despite VAR being there watching it.I'd rather have a referee make a genuine mistake, like the old days, than someone looking at TV monitors over and over again at slow motion video and still getting it wrong and only interfering when they feel like it..
Also get the feeling that referees are not so careful with their decisions because they know that someone could correct them if they get it wrong or even back them in their wrong decision.
Goal line technology - fine. Unless they can get the rest 100% correct, VAR is pointless and scrapping it would make the games much more exciting.
Agree with every word.I'd rather have a referee make a genuine mistake, like the old days, than someone looking at TV monitors over and over again at slow motion video and still getting it wrong and only interfering when they feel like it..
Also get the feeling that referees are not so careful with their decisions because they know that someone could correct them if they get it wrong or even back them in their wrong decision.
Goal line technology - fine. Unless they can get the rest 100% correct, VAR is pointless and scrapping it would make the games much more exciting.
Leeds taking him for a ride with time wasting. Know he has absolutely no controlWho is this bald clown? Zero control on the game. These thugs will end up injuring our players.