They definitely still get it wrong, because these things are always going to be a bit subjective when they're fine margins. The Eagles basically lost a superbowl in 2022 because of a rubbish call late in the game but even then a lot of people thought it was absolutely fine
VAR and Refs | General Discussion | Forest go into meltdown
- Thread starter Samid
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It was a blatant hold, twice. Even the defensive player flagged said the call was correct.Aye, spot on. The rule has drifted from its previous position which was to stop people deliberately handling the ball and gaining an unfair advantage. IFAB and others have lost sight of this in the pursuit of achieving consistency. Stopping the star-man stuff does not need to go to the extremes of punishing every handball where the arm isn't glued to the torso.
An update on the Forest situation:
Forest asked for the audio of discussions between Taylor and Attwel for each of the three penalty claims.
PGMOL agrees but only in private.
its just emerged that PGMOL have just said there is no audio for the third claim when Young went through the back of CHO. Despite it flashing up on the screen that Var had checked and cleared Taylor’s on field decision.
Forest asked for the audio of discussions between Taylor and Attwel for each of the three penalty claims.
PGMOL agrees but only in private.
its just emerged that PGMOL have just said there is no audio for the third claim when Young went through the back of CHO. Despite it flashing up on the screen that Var had checked and cleared Taylor’s on field decision.
Oh opening up a can of conspiracy theory worms here.
Did they lose the audio, delete the incriminating evidence or only pretend they checked it?
It makes no sense that the audio isn't available immediately for every decision to anyone who give a shit.
Not sure what's the more shocking conspiracy - Epstein 'killing himself' or this.
They are utterly pathetic and get too much protection in the media.
Yeah this is going horribly for PGMOL
Here's what I don't understand with the PGMOL. Why are they worried about overturning or going against an on-field official? Isn't the goal supposed to be to ensure the correct decision is given by whatever means available?
Are the English officials that thin-skinned and scared?
The NFL doesn't seem to bother when going against an on-field decision, it's not seen as lessening the official's job - it's seen as getting it right (they don't always get it right).
Also, why not add a second ref to the on-field action to help cover each other's blind spots and positional areas? It worked in hockey to bring in an additional ref and look at how many officials are in an NFL or NCAA football game.
Are the English officials that thin-skinned and scared?
The NFL doesn't seem to bother when going against an on-field decision, it's not seen as lessening the official's job - it's seen as getting it right (they don't always get it right).
Also, why not add a second ref to the on-field action to help cover each other's blind spots and positional areas? It worked in hockey to bring in an additional ref and look at how many officials are in an NFL or NCAA football game.
Also, why can the audio they do have not be released for everyone to hear? Is it too saucy for public consumption?
Honestly the incompetency of the PGMOL knows no bounds.
Honestly the incompetency of the PGMOL knows no bounds.
Referee ego. VAR are referees too and it’s one big old boys club. They don’t want to lose power or face on the pitch.
So, they're thin-skinned with wannabe star egos. Got it.
It's always been like this as far as I remember.
The addage that the refs word is final is fair enough, if players are arguing, but they've taken this to another level where they've determined the ref must be seen as infallible. Back in the days of a video review they couldn't retrospectively punish violent conduct with a harsh ban, for example, if the ref saw the incident and, not realising how serious it was, gave a yellow. They could only do it if the ref hadn't seen it at all.
It's bizarre, things are happening at a mile a minute, there's 22 players and a football too keep an eye on with a stadium full of fans roaring. Being present and looking in the direction of an incident doesn't mean you are always able to see everything that went on.
Also does them no favours in rubbishing the conspiracy angles.
Is this accurate? Private? And no audio for third penalty?
If it is, this is just crazy. Ridiculous. Pathetic. Just gives more questions than answers. Why can't we have any transparency? What don't they want us to hear.
The VAR official can be heard singing Luton songs is the issue.
The club reported they were only allowed to listen to the audio in private. The fact that PGMOL claim no conversation took place on the 3rd pen was just reported on talksport.
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It’s because VAR goes against everything that has always been good about football. Fast paced, non-stop action. They’re desperate to avoid a situation where every single decision can be second guessed by a video referee because that would make the negative effect of VAR on football as a spectacle even more intolerable. So they have tried to restrict the number of times it is used by limiting it to “clear and obvious errors”. Of course that’s unworkable because nobody can agree how you define clear and obvious. This cluster feck is an inevitable consequence of using video technology in a way that doesnt suit the sport it’s being used for.
The only sensible solution is a team captain referrals system like field hockey. Any other approach will have fans (and, as of this week, football clubs) constantly whining about corruption.
You really couldn't make it up.A further point: Apparently Marikanis wanted to release the original tweet at half time but was talked out of it by the clubs PR department. That would have been something!
I do wonder if part of it is because they don't want to expose their conversations to the public and inevitability get memed up, which would further erode any respect we had left for them. We all heard the audio of Darren England saying "I can't do anything" in the Spurs Liverpool game and I'd imagine that was a low point for officials that they're desperate to avoid a repeat of.
Why is it so hard to play VAR comments directly on live broadcast instead of commentators trying to interpret / justify what's going on in the ref's mind?
Cricket does it and it works just fine.
Cricket does it and it works just fine.
Dodgy as.
And while not identical situations, didn’t the audio get made public when Liverpool queried it?
The longer they hide stuff, the longer the conspiracy theorists will go on and invent new theories… they didn’t need to, officials are simply rubbish.
A very good summary of the issue and the competing interests with VAR interventions.
The definition of 'clear and obvious' in fundamentally flawed as technically every incorrect decision is 'clear and obvious', otherwise we wouldn't think it incorrect.
It has to be a referral system and the resulting review has to be transparent with the decision and explanation why clearly relayed to the players on the pitch, the fans in the stadium and the viewers at home. Anything else is a mess.
I honestly think decisions will improve 10 fold if VAR know they then have to fully justify them.
We need foreign referees in Premier League. It is just that simple. There is a need for change.
I have no trust in referees and those in VAR room. There is no transparency. There are lot of issues and situations that makes you wonder about what is actually going on. I feel sorry for Nottingham and I can relate to us having lost lots of points because of some pathetic decisions that went against us. Fans from your club should be happy about reaction from your club, manager and some players. You need answers. And so do we.
Was the VAR official actually a Luton fan? If so, why are the likes of Neville not kicking off about that, instead of telling Forest they are naughty for pointing it out?
Because the idea that you can assemble a team of elite referees who didn’t grow up supporting top flight football teams is fecking ridiculous and if you start allocating them based on who they did and didn’t support the whole system would fall apart. Plus the argument being made by Forest here isn’t even that he supported the team that directly benefited, he supported another team near them in the league. How the feck do you design a system where you take shit like that into account?
That system is already in place though. It's common knowledge. Michael Oliver has spoken about it in the past.
I know that the referees are provided by PGMOL, but who ‘employs’ them - is it the FA who provide them to the PL are do the PL employ them directly? Just wondering what is stopping the PL from saying “We’re no longer going to put up with this crap so will go and get our own referees for PL matches”? They then go to the 10 best (non English) referees in Europe and say “come and work for us and we’ll double your money”. I would imagine the threat alone would lead to a raising of standards among PGMOL.
And it’s damned obvious that Oliver referees United games in favour of the opposition. And City games in favour of City
Yeah the whole system is a joke, which is why I find it odd that this isn't the main focus rather than 'Oh you can't say that!'
If Forest get relegated by a point or two I can genuinely see this becoming a legal matter. There are hundreds of millions of pounds at stake and the people making the decisions are running it like its an under 9s 5 a side festival.
They have 2 recordings but no recording of the 3rd (and most egregious error). I wonder why that might be? Whether deliberate corruption or just mind-bending incompetence, what are you supposed to think if you are Notts Forest? The situation utterly reeks of PGMOL closing ranks and protecting their own and leaving clubs and fans completely in the dark in case whatever secret they are hiding comes out.
If this is confirmed then the whole thing needs ripping down and starting again. Dissolve PGMOL for starters and do not under any circumstances re-hire any of the jokers that have had anything to do with it.
They have 2 recordings but no recording of the 3rd (and most egregious error). I wonder why that might be? Whether deliberate corruption or just mind-bending incompetence, what are you supposed to think if you are Notts Forest? The situation utterly reeks of PGMOL closing ranks and protecting their own and leaving clubs and fans completely in the dark in case whatever secret they are hiding comes out.
If this is confirmed then the whole thing needs ripping down and starting again. Dissolve PGMOL for starters and do not under any circumstances re-hire any of the jokers that have had anything to do with it.
I see on the list of Premier league referees, five cannot ref a Liverpool v Everton game.
No restriction on any ref doing our games.
Make of that what you will.
No restriction on any ref doing our games.
Make of that what you will.
I’d thought this aswell as if we do finish below Luton it will be by no more than a point or two at the most. Over on the Forest Forum we’re compiling a list of bad decisions against us. We’re up to 16 so far. To be fare, a number of these are 50/50’s that could argued as unlucky and no more. There are 4 where we’ve complained and had an apology. If we go down by a point then it’s not unreasonable to claim that at least one of those bad decisions was match and result changing. For example:
The Willy Bolly 2nd Yellow 20min into Bournemouth at home. We eventually lost 3 v 2 after playing 3/4 of the match with 10 men?
The Liverpool drop ball when we were in possession. Liverpool then went on to score in Klopp time Lost 1 nil.
Yeah I think this is going to get very messy.
What do you mean by «only in private»? Every team can request the audio and get access to it, doesn’t mean it’s going to make public for everyone else. It’s not like you’re being refused access.
I don’t think you can legally complain about a subjective decision but if the recording of the 3rd one against Everton was deleted for example then you’d have a case. Maybe.
I think there is also a case where the PGMOL have been forced to admit they got it wrong on 4 separate occasions.