VAR and Refs | General Discussion | May 15: Premier League clubs to vote on proposal to scrap VAR from next season

[stw2022]

Use it to determine whether the ball went out of the field of play during the build up to a goal.

Offsides should be adjudicated by looking at a single image with the dictation being that 'basically level is onside' even if you can draw a line on the screen to proove someone's kneecap was ahead of the last defender, and if there is doubt the benefit of that doubt should be given to the attacking team.

Replays only to be reviewed at full speed, with slow motion only allowed for incidences of violent conduct.

If any decision takes more that 30 seconds then whatever the on field decision was, it stands. There will absolutely be errors and mistakes and wrong decisions. Boo fecking hoo.

 

[Jippy]

Except he's behind him when you measure with correct angle, frame and body part.

If you can't understand that, I suspect you're too dense to follow football generally.

There's no need for this. People can have different opinions to you.

 

[Garnacho's Shoelaces]

There's no need for this. People can have different opinions to you.

Very true, I was out of line and edited my comment. Soz.

 

[stw2022]

The mindset of "okay, so a goal is scored. Hang tight whilst we spend a couple of minutes scrutinising everything that happened in the build up to try and find something so we can rule it out" that is the reality of VAR, needs to be challenged more.

 

[Jippy]

Very true, I was out of line and edited my comment. Soz.

Thanks.

 

[FortunaUtd]

Garnacho is never offside. You don’t draw lines when ball is under way. You draw it when it is first touch directly when ball is passed forward.

There is agenda from everywhere and now more and more ManUtd fans are seeing this crazy decisions against us. And how media behaves. Or how silent they are.

When it comes to Liverpool. There is a reason why people are calling them LiVARpool for some seasons now. However yesterday, I felt sorry for them. This is exactly same stuff we’ve been served against us for couple of seasons.

What I would like is to try to understand how Arsenal and Tottenham are getting so many decision for them this season. Shockingly many. Shockingly bad. Shockingly match-deciding.

"People"?
United fans on here and on Twitter, you mean?

 

[Woodzy]

Slightly funny because it was against Liverpool, but that offside call yesterday is probably as bad as it can get.

VAR in my mind is literally one of the easiest jobs you can get in football, you basically just need to watch something back on a screen and make a decision. Sometimes the issue will be subjective, but most of the time it will be a black or white decision and there’s really no excuse for an error like there was yesterday. Just fecking get rid of it if that’s how it’s going to end up.

 

[The Firestarter]

Didn't the linesman put his flag up before the ball hit the net? If so, VAR cant over rule it. I presume that's why they didn't draw the lines.

Lino flag does not matter, its the ref who decides.

 

[90 + 5min]

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Ofcourse they are. When it comes to decisions going against us, referees are rewarded with new games. This is how rules are applied different when it comes to us.

 

[Garnacho's Shoelaces]

I can't speak.

 

[DennisReynolds]

Some of the stuff coming out about the refereeing team being over in UAE to referee on a Thursday evening game is insanity.

Surely that's a conflict of interest? At best, you've got to question their condition to be involved again so soon after.

 

[Jippy]

Some of the stuff coming out about the refereeing team being over in UAE to referee on a Thursday evening game is insanity.

Surely that's a conflict of interest? At best, you've got to question their condition to be involved again so soon after.

God knows why any league would headhunt our referees, given they're renowned as being so bad they didn't even get asked to the world cup not so long ago.

 

[Buster15]

I absolutely cannot believe that they're still making millimetre offside decision when this part is so inaccurate. It just baffles my mind that seemingly no person involved has acknowledged this issue. We're ruling out goals for toenails being offside, yet deciding when to freeze the frame is based on some guy's best guess on a dodgy frame rate. Are they really all too stupid to see this glaring problem?

I totally agree with you on this and I have been saying something very similar.
It is important to remember that the offside law completely predates VAR. And it was never intended to come down to millimetres of accuracy. So VAR is one of those unintended consequences.
And it is completely ruining the spontaneous celebrations of scoring and goal.

In my opinion (which counts for bugger all), there should be a Confidence Factor implemented. And if the VAR line that is drawn shows an offside of less than a specific value, say 50mm or something like that, then the goal should stand.
Because whatever they claim, it can not be guaranteed to be 100% accurate.

 

[The Corinthian]

The clubs should pull together and submit a letter to the FA that they have no confidence in PGMOL’s capability in officiating a game and refuse to play unless they either remove VAR from games, or replace the cohort of referees running it. The whole system needs to be looked at and reset.

 

[Buster15]

VAR has pros and cons, but for me it has killed celebrating a goal...pausing a few seconds to check if the linesman has raised a flag doesn't stop any enjoyment.

But waiting 2 minutes for VAR to check a goal just completely changes how I watch football...how we have settled on a system like this is bonkers.

Plus the amount of good goals that are being disallowed is just crazy...right or wrong no one is going away from grounds congratulating the officials for disallowing a beautiful worked goal because the players shoulder was 2 pixels ahead of the defender.

Spot on.
Before VAR, when offside was being decided by human eye of the linesman and referee, the benefit of doubt should have gone to the attacking team.

Now with VAR, the benefit of doubt has swung to the defending team.
The offside law was originally intended to stop goal poaching. Not that I could really see a problem with that.
It was most certainly never intended to become what it has become. An inaccurate way of cancelling out a goal.

 

[MrMarcello]

This is the Serie A match I mentioned on page 207. Four minutes had passed by before replay changed everything. I don't buy into the "well, Spurs had taken the free kick, so can't change it now." Maybe it's in the rules but that should be changed going forward if so.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/8446354/fiorentina-penalty-var-spal-serie-a-italy/
--Luca Pairetto's decision to award a penalty for the foul automatically rendered everything that followed in the next four minutes, including the goal, null and void.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...L-goal-award-Fiorentina-penalty-decision.html
--The decision, which came more than four minutes after the foul, made everything that had followed null and void, including Valoti's goal.

 

[El Zoido]

I totally agree with you on this and I have been saying something very similar.
It is important to remember that the offside law completely predates VAR. And it was never intended to come down to millimetres of accuracy. So VAR is one of those unintended consequences.
And it is completely ruining the spontaneous celebrations of scoring and goal.

In my opinion (which counts for bugger all), there should be a Confidence Factor implemented. And if the VAR line that is drawn shows an offside of less than a specific value, say 50mm or something like that, then the goal should stand.
Because whatever they claim, it can not be guaranteed to be 100% accurate.

Yep, totally agree. I don’t even celebrate our goals anymore because I know they’ll find an excuse to check it no matter what. And once they check it, the purpose is to find a reason to disallow it.

 

[erikcred]

Some of the stuff coming out about the refereeing team being over in UAE to referee on a Thursday evening game is insanity.

Surely that's a conflict of interest? At best, you've got to question their condition to be involved again so soon after.

That's a good point. I also don't trust them to be good enough to re-calibrate for the level and pace of the PL if they're regularly refereeing in a low quality league before a PL game.

Slightly funny because it was against Liverpool, but that offside call yesterday is probably as bad as it can get.

VAR in my mind is literally one of the easiest jobs you can get in football, you basically just need to watch something back on a screen and make a decision. Sometimes the issue will be subjective, but most of the time it will be a black or white decision and there’s really no excuse for an error like there was yesterday. Just fecking get rid of it if that’s how it’s going to end up.

Difficult if you're tired from all the world-wide refereeing you're paid to do.

The clubs should pull together and submit a letter to the FA that they have no confidence in PGMOL’s capability in officiating a game and refuse to play unless they either remove VAR from games, or replace the cohort of referees running it. The whole system needs to be looked at and reset.

That option would be insanity. At least with VAR around they've to invent new ways of screwing up like "I wasn't watching the one thing I'm paid to watch". Plus with VAR, they're grown more complacent and even sloppier than before because there's some kind of safety net. If you remove the safety net suddenly, these clowns would wreak even more havoc.

 

[sullydnl]

I totally agree with you on this and I have been saying something very similar.
It is important to remember that the offside law completely predates VAR. And it was never intended to come down to millimetres of accuracy. So VAR is one of those unintended consequences.
And it is completely ruining the spontaneous celebrations of scoring and goal.

In my opinion (which counts for bugger all), there should be a Confidence Factor implemented. And if the VAR line that is drawn shows an offside of less than a specific value, say 50mm or something like that, then the goal should stand.
Because whatever they claim, it can not be guaranteed to be 100% accurate.

That's already in place. Right now if the lines they draw show a player is offside but the lines overlap, benefit of the doubt is given to the attacker.

That's what it means when the image they show has a single green, like the below, instead of the two red and blue lines.

 

[Pexbo]

Some of the stuff coming out about the refereeing team being over in UAE to referee on a Thursday evening game is insanity.

Surely that's a conflict of interest? At best, you've got to question their condition to be involved again so soon after.

I for one was perfectly comfortable with Saudi owned Newcastle fan Michael Oliver being paid a premium to referee in the Saudi league last season. I also thought it was perfectly normal that Saudi owned Newcastle fan Michael Oliver was selected to referee the Top 4 rival’s Manchester United’s match during the run in last season.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

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[Tyrion]

There will absolutely be errors and mistakes and wrong decisions. Boo fecking hoo.

In football, any debatable calls are greeted with demands for sackings and screams of corruption so they can't just say boo hoo

Some of the stuff coming out about the refereeing team being over in UAE to referee on a Thursday evening game is insanity.

Surely that's a conflict of interest? At best, you've got to question their condition to be involved again so soon after.

lt shouldn't be allowed but it's a bit flattering to Liverpool to think that they'd be such a threat to City they'd need to pay refs to look the other way.

The clubs should pull together and submit a letter to the FA that they have no confidence in PGMOL’s capability in officiating a game and refuse to play unless they either remove VAR from games, or replace the cohort of referees running it. The whole system needs to be looked at and reset.

And then they'd repeat the process in a year when they don't like the new system/batch of referees and again the year after that.

 

[MrMarcello]

Definitely a conflict of interest.

 

[Catt]

Its just mind boggling isn’t it

Neville said it’s been off all season, the camera angles everything aren’t right. He can hear the VAR discussion through his headset and they just passed the incident up in seconds

Remember when ETH said the Garnacho was onside and the camera angle was wrong? people thought he was insane…..

So then what? They just don't give a damn?

 

[Catt]

Jones tackle was a red card I thought

Agree, as you see those given all the time

 

[Catt]

Definitely a conflict of interest.

What is?

 

[Idxomer]

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I never believed that City's illegal activities just stopped at financial doping.

 

[Mibabalou]

So city bribing the officials ?

 

[Catt]

They whole thing is a joke.

3 decisions wrong in the Liverpool game. Simon Hooper is just an awful referee. VAR deliberately showed the worst screenshot of the Jones tackle to make sure he saw red.

At least 1 of Villa's goals shouldn't have stood.

Questionable decisions in the Utd game.

Luton scored from a freekick that wasn't a freekick.

City got a free kick and scored from it, Wolves player was carded. Exact same situation at the other end of the pitch just before, no freekick and no yellow card.

Saw that in the Wolves game. United have been screwed on several occations this season and now Liverpool

 

[Bangor_Red]

Slightly funny because it was against Liverpool, but that offside call yesterday is probably as bad as it can get.

VAR in my mind is literally one of the easiest jobs you can get in football, you basically just need to watch something back on a screen and make a decision. Sometimes the issue will be subjective, but most of the time it will be a black or white decision and there’s really no excuse for an error like there was yesterday. Just fecking get rid of it if that’s how it’s going to end up.

Mistake admitted before the day was done. Yet no mistake has been acknowledged over romeo hand ball. Or the garnacho offside where the wrong camera angle was used and defenders head not taken into account for us.

Yet Klopp has mentioned us yet again when a decision goes against him. I dunno how we can be screwed more than we are being currently since wolves but no doubt the klopp effect will happen

 

[sullydnl]

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An increasing amount of conspiracy-thought has unfortunately bled into football, with fans convinced that referees are biased against their club specifically. Allowing this sort of conflict of interest only helps fuel that. It's also unfair on the officials themselves, who then have their integrity questioned.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Oh boy, the amount of decisions Liverpool are going to get in their favour for the rest of the season.

 

[Catt]

Have there been any arrests?

 

[90 + 5min]

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This is just getting bigger and bigger. So now you got referees going over and refereeing games playing in countries that actually owns football clubs in England?

There are so many questions now that Premier League needs to handle when it comes to referees and VAR. People need transparency. People needs answers.

 

[Catt]

This is like the media outcry the other week when United got robbed. Who doesn't remember the noice??

 

[90 + 5min]

This is like the media outcry the other week when United got robbed. Who doesn't remember the noice??

Exactly. That is why it is important to mention our games and never leave them out of discussion.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

An increasing amount of conspiracy-thought has unfortunately bled into football, with fans convinced that referees are biased against their club specifically. Allowing this sort of conflict of interest only helps fuel that. It's also unfair on the officials themselves, who then have their integrity questioned.

Let’s not forget that VAR is pouring fuel on this dumpster fire. It’s a technology that was rolled out as a way to remove human error from officiating, which means that the cause for unfair/incorrect decisions inevitably ends up being attributed to corruption instead.

 

[Garnacho's Shoelaces]

Have there been any arrests?

I laughed out loud at a thing on the internet. Bravo.

 

[Buster15]

That's already in place. Right now if the lines they draw show a player is offside but the lines overlap, benefit of the doubt is given to the attacker.

That's what it means when the image they show has a single green, like the below, instead of the two red and blue lines.

Ok thanks for this.
I must have missed this because it normally shows a single white line. But take your point.

 

[JogaBonitoRooney]

I couldn't see this level of media reaction had this happened to any other club. Everyone must cry for Liverpool.