This is 100% what we need to move to, although I think offsides being objective should be reviewed for goals still, ideally automated and processed in the blink of an eye eventually.
VAR and Refs | General Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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Referee goes to the monitor, then the decision is explained by the referee to the captains, with the stadium and TV audience able to hear the explanation.
Said this from the very start of VAR being an option and still think it's the right thing to do
Reduces the need for play to be stopped unnecessarily and reduces the need for players to hound the ref as well since they can ask the captain/manager for a review if they're that convinced.
Disagree with the challenge system; it is used in other sports alongside video review. Proposals to only allow VAR to intervene upon challenge from a captain or coach are silly, the refs make more than 1 mistake per game; coaches and players have enough to think about without getting into game theory of whether this is the right opportunity to invoke a challenge.
Another case of ye learning the wrong lessons from across the pond
I don't think it should be scrapped; but it's better that it's scrapped than used half-arsedly
Another case of ye learning the wrong lessons from across the pond
I don't think it should be scrapped; but it's better that it's scrapped than used half-arsedly
Great post…second paragraph nails it.
Make all VAR communication available live. There's no reason to keep it secret.
Get rid of the monitor pitch side. The VAR ref tells the pitch ref what the decision should be. It's a collosal waste of time and serves no benefit. The rules are the rules and the refs are equally qualified.
Get rid of the "clear and obvious" standard for overruling.
I'm torn on the challenge system, I feel it could lead to time wasting.
Get rid of the monitor pitch side. The VAR ref tells the pitch ref what the decision should be. It's a collosal waste of time and serves no benefit. The rules are the rules and the refs are equally qualified.
Get rid of the "clear and obvious" standard for overruling.
I'm torn on the challenge system, I feel it could lead to time wasting.
Just suspend it for next season. Use that time to improve it, using the offsides etc that take place in games next season. When it's all calibrated and decisions can be made in good time instead of these ridiculous lengthy stoppages, THEN bring it back. It wasn't ready, so bring it back when it is.
The current iteration of VAR is designed for the little feelings of the referees in their inadequate need to feel like the big men in charge.
Get rid of the screen, correct all bad decisions involving potential red cards, goals and penalties by the book, make each of them accountable and feck how they feel about it.
I didn't even see that Amrabat stepped on him, and still thought it was a penalty, or atleast freekick just outside the box, because of his holding.
Amrabat is pulling his arm behind his back.
just checked it on youtube again, i'd say a freekick outside the box for the holding would be fair, but with him steppeing on his foot, it's a clear cut penalty.
Do you ever watch football without VAR? I do.
Didn't mean to make our Lord cry though.
100% agree with your view. There were far more controversial refereeing decisions without it than with it.
All the time. Literally every Sunday morning, watching my son play U15 football. And these are really bad referees too. On the rare occasion we get a decent referee I have absolutely no issue with them getting a few calls wrong, as it's a tough job and I'm mainly impressed that they get so many more calls correct.
Sure, with U15 football it's fine. But conceding a blatantly offside goal or penalty from an extremely clear dive is just unacceptable to me.
Perhaps the people behind the screen need more training and some of the rules (handball for instance) need to be way more clear, but the fact technology gives officials the option to review a call in itself is in no way the problem in my opinion. It's 100% human error that gets stuff wrong. It's like blaming the whistle for a wrongly awarded free kick.
We’re still seeing goals awarded or not awarded incorrectly. So nothing has changed there. But when it happens without VAR it’s not even a tiny fraction as annoying. I honestly never feel all that bothered about officials getting stuff wrong in real time, without VAR. But when my team gets screwed over in matches that feature VAR it makes me want to stop watching football.
Meh, I do understand the sentiment in that sense.
The thing I hate most about VAR is never being able to "really" celebrate a goal while it's scored. You never know if there's been a handball or tiny foul somewhere in the 2 minutes before the goal.
Hard luck Wolves
We've crossed the Rubicon with VAR, we've mangled the soul of football and going back won't feel as rewarding.
I know its been mentioned many times on here already, but rugby has this nailed. Why not just copy that approach? Refs are micd up, we hear the entire conversation, we see what the VAR is looking at and even if you disagree with the end result as some things will be subjective, the process is 100% transparent.
This whole "clear and obvious" thing, was always going to be a shitshow as it introduces subjectivity into whether something is even reviewed or not.
We just need to be clear when VAR will be used (I suggest goals, penalties/possible penalties not given on field, sendings off/potential sendings off not given on field) VAR checks 100% of these situations. feck all this "it should not re-referee the game" - its literally the whole point of it to make the best possible decision, regardless of who does it.
Edit - the implementation just shows the ego and arrogance of the referee. Yes he makes most of the decisions but it should be a refereeing TEAM that collectively get to the right result. Also, if a possible penalty is reviewed for a tackle on the 18 yard line that the referee didn't give a foul for and VAR sees a clear foul but it was outside the box, then give the free kick, don't just ignore it.
This whole "clear and obvious" thing, was always going to be a shitshow as it introduces subjectivity into whether something is even reviewed or not.
We just need to be clear when VAR will be used (I suggest goals, penalties/possible penalties not given on field, sendings off/potential sendings off not given on field) VAR checks 100% of these situations. feck all this "it should not re-referee the game" - its literally the whole point of it to make the best possible decision, regardless of who does it.
Edit - the implementation just shows the ego and arrogance of the referee. Yes he makes most of the decisions but it should be a refereeing TEAM that collectively get to the right result. Also, if a possible penalty is reviewed for a tackle on the 18 yard line that the referee didn't give a foul for and VAR sees a clear foul but it was outside the box, then give the free kick, don't just ignore it.
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Would be a huge backwards step to scrap it. We'd then be hearing whinging about wrong decisions every single game, rather than just every couple of weeks.
Simple solution - use it better.
None of this "var wouldn't have changed the decision if the ref had or hadn't given a pen".
That's an absolute nonsense.
Simple solution - use it better.
None of this "var wouldn't have changed the decision if the ref had or hadn't given a pen".
That's an absolute nonsense.
Can we just reform it? The technology can work but the utilisation is all wrong
I'm torn. I watch a lot of Bristol Rovers in league one and the quality of the refereeing is incredibly varied, but there have been alot of dreadful decisions and some appalling officiating that makes many in the crowd cry out for VAR, the most common chant this season I think has been "we've got a shit ref, it's happened again."
The way it works in the prem at the moment is dreadful, PGMOL apologised twice last season to us at Brighton, but that didn't give us the 4 points VAR wrongly took from us. But, I really think it can get alot better and as the technology, transparency and implementation evolve removing more subjective decision making away from humans and possible human error, I can only see it improving the game like the "has the ball crossed the line" technology.
If you get rid of it now we'll never get it back and in the long run I think that's the wrong decision, but I have to agree right now it can be incredibly painful and it needs to change.
Just like capitalism innit
"There are many reasons it's shit, but the main reason for me is that it's being run by people who look at the shirt and worry about the narrative more than they judge the situation in isolation on its merits."
Sorry but how does car affect this? With or without var this will remain the same.
The very simple fix would be to give broadcasters access to the referees microphone so we can hear the decision making process behind a call. They won't do that because they don't want to be accountable. VAR is supposed to help the referee make a decision but we've managed to set it up where its always disagreeing with them.
Nothing wrong with var, just the referees.
If only there was an actual good referees in the league would have been nice. The technology is great to have and use but the people using it are clueless. Best league in the world with the worst referees.
Wish someone would propose to scrap the current set of referee's.
Please get rid!
Wolves being fecked over by VAR again.
They've been one of the clubs on the end of some of the worst VAR decisions, can see why they'd want rid of it.
When the Premier League teams vote on this will the three demoted teams be voting or will the three promoted teams (with no recent VAR experience) be eligible?
Been saying the same. Limit the opportunity for var involvement and only the more questionable decisions would be raised by the captain…but even then I imagine we would see captains show unsporting behaviour and challenge a goal conceded in the 45th minute (if available) just for the sake of it.
I don't understand why some people dislike the var that much when the problem is really the quality of the referees.
I’m not an advocate for getting rid
I certainly don’t like it in its current state. Constantly seeing different decisions made week to week for similar offences. (Namely the Fa cup semi final hand balls)
but can you imagine a world next season on the opening day and were denied a stone wall penalty and were crying out to bring back var
it just needs to be managed by competent people…with a standard set for handballs, interfering with the gk etc…and I don’t have the answers for how to go about that
I certainly don’t like it in its current state. Constantly seeing different decisions made week to week for similar offences. (Namely the Fa cup semi final hand balls)
but can you imagine a world next season on the opening day and were denied a stone wall penalty and were crying out to bring back var
it just needs to be managed by competent people…with a standard set for handballs, interfering with the gk etc…and I don’t have the answers for how to go about that
Liverpool opposing the abolition of it surprise surprise 
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2024/0516/1449566-liverpool-will-oppose-wolves-calls-to-scrap-var/
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2024/0516/1449566-liverpool-will-oppose-wolves-calls-to-scrap-var/
Do we get to know who votes yes or no or is it a secret voting?
Of course the problem isn't the quality of the referees. That's such an inane argument. The people who hate VAR can remember watching the game before VAR and there's absolutely no rational reason for the quality of referees to suddenly nosedive at the exact same time that VAR is introduced. Bit of a coincidence, right?!? The referees are as good/bad as they've always been but VAR is putting their decisions under more scrutiny than ever before, in front of an audience that will never be happy with their decisions.
I must have made this point hundreds of times by know but look at every single thread about every controversial decision discussed on here, going back to the origins of this website. We never achieve consensus. There are always differences of opinion. And that's after days of back and forth, with unlimited time to review footage. So why on earth would we expect referees to come up with decisions that keep all of us happy, in the space of a few seconds?!? The issue isn't bad refereeing, it's a system that sets them up to fail.
Any vote like this usually gets leaked to journalists so I imagine we'll find out afterwards.
I didn't say their quality dropped, I'm saying the issues that happen now are their fault, not VAR. VAR is just a video on a screen, it's the man that makes the decisions. How on earth is adding another tool setting them up to fail?
Still amazing to see people that still don't see that it's the officials are the main problem.
It's been obvious from day one that they're either so poor that they're too incompetent to use it (possible) or they're deliberately sabotaging the use of it. To the best of my knowledge there's nowhere near the levels of issues with the use of VAR in other top leagues
Go and rewatch last night final cup game between Juventus - Atalanta
And yes, it's like that all season and even worse.