You'd fit in well on RAWK with statements like that. Embarrassing.
Varchester City 18/19 discussion
- Thread starter Bergman
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The level of denial from city fans is embarrassing. The previous poster has a point. Cheating is cheating.
These Serie A years should be reconsidered, Inter and AC Milan phone calls that were heard later were worse than Juve's. Actually the report from the Italian Football Federation prosecutor noted that Inter was the worse of the lot having breached several rules (in some phone calls you can hear Facchetti, at the time Inter president, say to the referees director that they needed to win games and to talk to the referees, in another call you can hear him say to fix the referees draw and to put the one he wanted in the Inter game; also AC Milan had shocking moments like Collina asking to meet Galliani late at night in a secure place, in other calls Galliani is referred to be "Collina's chief" and others Milan men say that they controlled the linesmen).
Juve were no saint but that Inter and Milan were left untouched was a total travesty.
Their fans will justify anything, they don't care, they're lapping up the blood money.
Doesn't matter what their disgusting owners do, so why would they care about the obvious corruption the club is involved in? As long as they continue to get slaps on the wrists, City fans won't care, they're already clearly displayed a total lack of interest in how their success is gained.
Once you're in bed with the devil that is that.
sounds like jealousy or sour grapes.....we've spunked cash up against the wall because of a 1980s structure....we could still compete if we cut out the incompetence.
April will be brutal! I am glad with Spurs in the champions league as I didn't want Liverpool/Barcelona/United or Juve. I would've prefered Porto but ...oh well.
We were discussing FFP, but if you want to conflate it with ADUG and human rights (based on your reference to "disgusting owners"), then sure. They are two separate issues though so I will answer them separately:
1) We failed FFP previously and were fined for it. The leaks relate back to our unsuccessful attempt to pass it by trying to cheat some of the rules. I've said before on this thread that City should've challenged the basis of FFP rather than trying to play the game, but that's a decision we took at the time. On the important questions, as before: a) Did we fail FFP? Yes; b) Do I care that we failed FFP? No, mainly because I think it was designed, with influence from some of the elite clubs, to deliberately answer the wrong question in terms of how to improve the current structure of football; c) Do I care that fans of rival clubs don't respect our accomplishments because of that? No, it's utterly irrelevant to me and my enjoyment of that success.
On the separate issue of a potential FIFA transfer ban for our recruitment of academy players. Absolutely stupid from the club, I expect we'll get a two window transfer ban as that's what other clubs have got in similar circumstances, and heads should roll.
2) ADUG is a vehicle owned by Sheikh Mansour, a member of the UAE royal family. Does it bother me that the government that our owner is associated with has certain domestic and foreign policies that I disagree with? No, not really to be honest. On this specific issue I was far more bothered by Thaksin, but he was less of an issue for rival fans seemingly, I'll assume because he had far less money to make us a threat. I lived in the UAE for 5 years, so know these issues well. Clearly labour rights for migrant workers (as an example) are far below the standards we have in the UK, and far below what they should be in the UAE. They are improving, but not quickly enough. The financial imbalance between the UAE's economy and the economies from where the UAE draws migrant labour (in construction, largely Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, Afghanistan etc.) means this will continue to be a problem as the UAE can continue to exploit the desire of very poor people to come to the UAE for the (sometimes false) promise of extra earnings and a better quality of life. The proxy war in Yemen, as another example, has been an absolute disaster for Yemen's long-suffering population but will likely continue given the regional dynamics. I truly hope these policies can be improved/addressed. On other domestic policies, including issues like freedom of speech and democracy etc., I put these in a very separate bucket. Assuming that our western style of government is applicable in the UAE, for example, is a much more fuzzy debate.
What can I do, as a City fan, to change this situation? I suppose I have a few options, including: a) I could stop supporting City and hope the owners leave; b) I could protest the UAE's domestic and foreign policies that I disagree with; c) I could support charities in the UAE that provide services for migrant labourers; d) I could try to improve the quality of life of those in poorer countries, so that perhaps they no longer financially need to move to the UAE to provide for their families.
On those options: a) City was my team before ADUG and it will always be my team, so that's a non-starter; b) I still travel through the UAE regularly for work, and don't want to be arrested, so that's a non-starter; c) I did support several charities in the UAE, both with my time and money, while I lived there; d) that's been my job, actually, since 2009. I can't speak for other City fans.
So no, I don't personally feel guilty about FFP or ADUG owning City, and it doesn't negatively impact my enjoyment of the success we've had and the trophies we won. If you want to asterisk our achievements, dismiss us as a nothing club, or write that we're in bed with the devil, that's absolutely your prerogative, feel free to crack on.
So because you disagree with FFP, you're fine with City breaking those rules and think it's absolutely fine that other clubs (including the non-elite sides) towed the line whereas you gained an advantage? Right, gotcha. You disagree with the decision so it's ok that you broke them, City should be at an unfair advantage and that's totally fine.
I don't expect you to care about what rival fans think. But also don't expect rival fans to not mention it when you as a club act like the rules simply don't apply to you and generally just be a completely shady outfit. I already know that City fans couldn't care less, as long as you're watching Aguero bang in the goals you're perfectly content to be blind to what got him there. We saw the same with Chelsea and it'll be the same with City.
Again, I'm not remotely surprised. You're fine with the owners of your club being a bunch of tinpot dictators who ruthlessly suppress free speech in their own country, and you're fine with basically being a political tool to show 'hey look we're fine, ignore all the torture and stuff, it's ok guys'. You're literally a device used to rebrand the UAE's image and distract attention away from the fact that they're ran by some of the most despicable people on the planet, congratulations for that. You're so right though, we can't apply western styles of government, so all the torture and imprisonment of anyone who steps out of line over there is totally fine. Your owners shouldn't even be allowed in to the country, let alone allowed to run a football club.
You don't have to do anything, just don't expect rival fans not to talk about it. Your club is built on blood money and people will recognise that. You're massively corrupt, and again people are not going to remain silent on that, why would they? Of course to rivals your success is massively tarnished, what do you expect? Nobody is going to celebrate the achievements of a club ran by tinpot dictators who rule by fear and oppression and throw billions at players, you're basically a perfect comic book villain.
You say 'feel free to crack on', but it obviously bothers you how rivals feel about your club, doesn't it? You know in the back of your mind that the asterisk will always be there, and rightfully so. You and PSG are the most rotten, despicable examples of modern football out there, utterly plastic and devoid of any genuine character or any sense that you worked hard to get to where you are. Everything people value in an institution is completely devoid from your club, everything.
The last line of my post was literally "that's absolutely your prerogative, feel free to crack on." Of course it doesn't bother me, and no I don't expect or need any validation or respect from rival fans. I think I've been clear on where I stand on FFP and on our owners, and I think you've been clear too. We're obviously not going to agree, and that's fine.
Last comment on FFP, clearly we struggled to meet it the first couple of years. It now massively protects our competitive position, so is now great for City (subject to any redesign of the rules), but I'll still be here saying it's bad for the game. Same goes for the CL, our qualification gives us more TV revenue and more commercial revenue through increased brand exposure so protects our competitive position, but I'll still be here saying it's bad for the game. The whole structure of football is unbalanced. City are now part of the problem, but we're not the problem in itself.
We're run by dickheads. Was always going to catch up with one day sooner or later.
Yep, this
Very tough run of fixtures from 9th to 24th April.
If they get though that spell unbeaten, then fair play (pardon the pun), they'll have deserved the league title.
Be a massive step to eventually filling their stadium maybe?
If they get though that spell unbeaten, then fair play (pardon the pun), they'll have deserved the league title.
Be a massive step to eventually filling their stadium maybe?
So city are PED cheaters and financial rule breakers? I mean come on lads. Sometimes, just sometimes, a club can look unstopabble with the right manager who is backed accordingly by the owners, which seems to be the case over at our blue neighbours.
This whole conspiracy against them is giving their fans more ammunition against our club.
This whole conspiracy against them is giving their fans more ammunition against our club.
If they win the treble of quadruple, people are not going to care how they got there.
100 percent agree we are a failure in our own right though Ferguson departure accounts for a natural downturn to an extent. Its not sour grapes United evolved as a club with international influence and reach as far back as 58, we exploded under Busby then especially Ferguson and have a well earned seat at the top table. City cheated to usurp pretty much every club in the world. To ignore it is just stupid.
You're both in denial. The many ways city's financial cheating has given them advantages over almost every competitor have been well discussed. While not as morally questionable as doping or match fixing from the players point of view the act itself is cheating of the highest and most damaging level. That's not sour grapes I'm comfortable with where we are as a club right now. City are cheating and corrupting football and cheapening the biggest and best competitions. It's a genuine football crisis that you'd be up in arms about were it another club. They shouldn't even be in European competition its absurd.
As things stand at the moment, if City were to go on to do the Quad i still don't think it would command the gravitas of our treble.
It was the games against big name opposition that made it so memorable. We knocked Liverpool, Chelsea & Arsenal out of the FA Cup. We had Bayern & Barca in our CL group & then faced Inter, Juve & then Bayern again in going on to win the CL. You also had the enthralling moments of winning the league on the last day against Spurs after going behind. The Bergkamp penalty miss & Giggs goal in the FA Cup. Then to top it all the comeback against Bayern. This is a highlight reel that won't be bettered in our life times.
The FFP rule breaking is hardly a conspiracy. It was obvious before the fines, investigations and details came out in Der Spiegel. It's not only our clubs fans who know it. To most fans it is obvious. Unsure why you are so worried about what the City fans think - they have blinkers on.
I come across them pretty much daily and many of my friends are blues. They laugh at us claiming theyre doping like we used to laugh at other fans claiming Fergie was in cahoots with the FA.
Indeed. I'd cry if that SER bloke decided to start supporting his local Irish side and stopped posting on here. He's hilarious.
Doping is complete hearsay - with no evidence. City's financial cheating is well documented.
About 380m on pitch today and that's with injuries and aguero sterling danilo and more on bench. Considering that.city have cheated to achieve this, and that they're a club that can't sell out their stadium. Consider that for Swansea a quarter final is a great achievement and a home draw is good. The reality is that they have zero chance. City can field a sub team immeasurably stronger, attained by breaking rules..for clubs like Swansea.. What is the actual point?
Yeah so funny. The denial in your posts is seeping through the screen.
Nobody thinks City are doping. They are cheating though. There's city fans who say as much. It's fine for united and pool as we should be able to compete. For clubs like Swansea and schalke? They shouldnt even turn up. I can't imagine being a pro player getting battered round in a big game by a club blatantly cheating. This is the only sport where it can be so readily brushed away
Man City’s Cup draws this season
EFL Cup
Oxford(A)
Fulham (H)
Leicester (H)
Burton (H&A)
FA Cup
Rotherham (H)
Newport(A)
Swansea( A)
Champs League
Lyon
Hoffenheim
Shaktar Donetsk
Schalke
Tottenham
I just can't believe how lucky they are
EFL Cup
Oxford(A)
Fulham (H)
Leicester (H)
Burton (H&A)
FA Cup
Rotherham (H)
Newport(A)
Swansea( A)
Champs League
Lyon
Hoffenheim
Shaktar Donetsk
Schalke
Tottenham
I just can't believe how lucky they are
Looks like Kilmarnocks Pre season schedule
Your angst is pathetic. Go and support Sligo in your local league, a league which desperately needs local supporters rather than glory hunters who attach themselves to the biggest and richest club in England.
You spend your days posting on a United forum, the vast majority of posts desperately validating city's existence to their rivals, the rest speculating on posters backgrounds and proximity to stadiums. You seem to struggle with an inferiority complex.
20 minutes from a city kick off but Mr die hard is on a United forum. 'I'm not at the game because...'
For a guy so staunchly defensive of local support you sure have embraced international ownership you utter pathetic hypocrite.
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We're trying to win the competition, so have put a strong team out to try to win the match.
UEFA FFP rules apply to UEFA competitions, and we were fined for breaking them in 2014. What rules have we broken that are relevant to the FA Cup and today's game?
Built a squad that Swansea can't compete with on the back of breaking rules, improving a team as a result, getting more good players as a result. Every success has an origin in the cheating, which will I'm sure in time be proven to be ongoing
I'm not even going to comment on how daft that statement is but relax a little.
Seems strange not to start Foden against a championship side.
I agree. City's financial dealings as of late are questionable at the least but I was mainly referring to the allegations of doping.
I personally think it's a bit rich (literally) to have this mentality on city. Yes they've been taken over by rich owners, they weren't the first club and certainly won't be the last to go through such a takeover.
Before city could even dream of signing world class players we were spending 30 million on a centre back in 2002 (highest for a cb), 26 million for an 18 year old wayne roooney in 2004 (the highest ever paid for a teenager I think) and even recently broke the world transfer record for Pogba - an amount city have yet to spend on a single player. To add to this our wage bill is one of the highest still in the world and we have shown in the past 5 years that we are still capable of throwing big money around.
It just feels abit like throwing stones in glass houses. Dubious ownership? Yes, but they aren't the only club ever to spend lots of money.
We should be out today. We were the better team but two shocking decisions, feel for Swansea. A lot of stuff falling our way recently tbh, but I'll gladly take it.
And yet, general opinion on bluemoon is that you deserved that win. I thought that rawk is deluded
They’re so fecking flukey, it does my head in. No justice in football, the team that outspends everyone else by a billion pounds also gets a ridiculous amount of luck. Feels like someone is playing a Football Manager game and put all the cheats on then started the game as City.
I can understand the argument we played better football but that counts for nothing imho, Swansea were completely screwed by reffing incompetence today. I'm happy to be through but reality is we should be out any City fan who says otherwise is flat out telling lies imho no matter how blue tinted the specs.
Hardly. The fact remains you have no connection to Manchester. You have chosen to support what you imagined was the biggest and most glamorous club in a foreign country. Unfortunately for you, life isn't fair and your opportunity to live vicariously through Utd's success has been destroyed by City. Sorry about that. However, for the good of your mental health I would suggest that you do abandon your glory hunting and support a local club. I'm positive that the League of Ireland would welcome such a knowledgeable football fan.